Hop stand / whirlpool / immersion cooling?

What's the best way of inducing a whirlpool vortex when using an immersion coil chiller?

I suppose if I'm doing a hop stand for 30 min, I'd do that first, then insert the chiller and start cooling after then required 30 minutes. But -- if I want the hop stand at, say, 180F, I need to chill it from boiling first. Okay, insert chiller, cool to 180F, remove chiller, start whirlpool + hop stand, wait 30 min, re-insert coil, cool the rest of the way?

How can I sanitize the chiller coil the second time -- since it usually needs to be at boiling for ~20 min? Star-San?

On a related note -- when I'm chilling, I usually swirl the coil around in the cooling wort to increase contact, and cool things faster. But it's occurred to me that I'm interfering with the hot break -- and just mixing everything up. Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks!

I'm fairly new to all this but I see no reason to re-sanitize the chiller as long as you don't set it on anything that would contaminate it. If it was sanitized going in, or by sitting in the boil for 20 min, and you don't put it on anything dirty there is no way it should contaminate your beer.

Alternatively if you are concerned then put it back in and literally give it a minute it should kill anything it got from the air. 180 is a safe temp

I leave my IC in during the 180F hopstand/steep (and I cover with aluminum or plastic wrap too to keep the dust and flies out )... and I periodically stir it up because I leave my spoon in there also.

I float my pot in my swimming pool to chill to 180, then hop stand.

Drops to 180 in about 1 minute (current water temp is 50 though)
I do the same in the summer with 90 degree water, takes like 2-3 minutes to get to 180.

Without the swimming pool, one could use a tub of water in the same way.

I sanitize my IC in a tub of Idophor solution during the hop stand.

curtw said:

I suppose if I'm doing a hop stand for 30 min, I'd do that first, then insert the chiller and start cooling after then required 30 minutes. But -- if I want the hop stand at, say, 180F, I need to chill it from boiling first. Okay, insert chiller, cool to 180F, remove chiller, start whirlpool + hop stand, wait 30 min, re-insert coil, cool the rest of the way?

How can I sanitize the chiller coil the second time -- since it usually needs to be at boiling for ~20 min? Star-San?

Click to expand...

Sorry if I am missing something obvious, but why are you taking your chiller out?

DrWill said:

Sorry if I am missing something obvious, but why are you taking your chiller out?

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I understand it is important to maintain some heat during the stand.
Covered and insulated does that.
Covered is going to keep the nasty's out too.

VonAle said:

I understand it is important to maintain some heat during the stand.
Covered and insulated does that.
Covered is going to keep the nasty's out too.

Click to expand...

Umm, okay. Not sure what that had to do with my question, but that's spiffy, I guess.

DrWill said:

Umm, okay. Not sure what that had to do with my question, but that's spiffy, I guess.

Click to expand...

hard to put the lid on tight, unless you're IC fits entirely under the lid.

VonAle said:

hard to put the lid on tight, unless you're IC fits entirely under the lid.

Click to expand...

Ahh! The penny drops! I follow you now. It didn't occur to me because when I used an immersion chiller I notched the lid so it would stay on during chilling.

Sorry for being a thickie.

Actually, I was assuming I'd remove the chiller in order to start a whirlpool effect. There's no way I could do so with my chiller and my BK.

Of course, it doesn't seem that a "hop stand" requires doing a whirlpool, but the canonical BYO article associates the two pretty closely.

curtw said:

Actually, I was assuming I'd remove the chiller in order to start a whirlpool effect. There's no way I could do so with my chiller and my BK.

Of course, it doesn't seem that a "hop stand" requires doing a whirlpool, but the canonical BYO article associates the two pretty closely.

Click to expand...

You're right, hopstand doesn't require a whirlpool, but if you're going to whirlpool hot anyway (for example if you have a counterflow or plate chiller) you might as well do both at the same time. At least, that's the logic as far as I know.

DrWill said:

You're right, hopstand doesn't require a whirlpool, but if you're going to whirlpool hot anyway (for example if you have a counterflow or plate chiller) you might as well do both at the same time. At least, that's the logic as far as I know.

Click to expand...

I hear and read that whirlpooling or at least periodic stirring is more effective than a still rest, (where the hop parts just sink and settle at the pot bottom)

My most recent brew, I uncovered and stirred at 15 minute intervals.

I thought a hopstand and whirlpool were the same! Could someone explain the difference. Thanks!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that there is little difference. A hop stand is a bit longer while a whirlpool, as the name implies, involves stirring and letting it sit though usually not for an extended period of time, kind of like adding at flame out but letting it sit till it stops swirling, no pre-cooling. Note- I've been enjoying the fruits of my labor after a bad week so I hope I am articulating my point well.

Aroma steep, hopstand, whirlpool, flameout with stall, add hops after burner is turned off and let steep, etc... all aim for the same goal: to extract as much additional aroma goodness from the hops without allowing it to float away in the air.

If you've ever seen a whirlpool, a back eddy, a liquid volcano then you can imagine what one looks like. This is the gist of a whirlpool - just not violent. Obviously, it takes some kind of effort in some fashion to accomplish this in a brew kettle. If you have the ability and devices to make this happen then you too can have a "Whirlpool Hop Addition". Other benefits gained by whirlpooling is a nice collection of break/hop material in the bottom center of your brew kettle which means less in your fermenter.

If you don't have the equipment, device, or effort to make this happen then you can have any of the remainder labels I mentioned above. You just don't get quite the benefit of hop goodness extraction or break/hop material build-up.

A whirlpool provides a gentle agitation to the hops during the "less than boiling hot wort period" which aids in extracting the hop goodness more efficiently. Therefore, if you're doing a hopstand / aroma steep, it makes sense that some off-and-on gentle stirring will aim to accomplish the same (just not as efficiently).

I don't have a whirlpool system setup yet so I do "the other" and when I'm finished with my steep, I cool to pitching temperatures. At this point, I give a good 30 seconds of manual whirlpooling with my brew spoon and cover it for 20-30 minutes to let the manual whirlpool finish. At the end, I have accomplished nice hopstand and have a good collection of break/hop material in the bottom center of my BK.

Thanks for the info!

If you use a recirculation (whirlpool) arm( http://morebeer.com/products/wort-chiller-recirculation-package-option.html )on your IC it makes it pretty simple. IC goes into the boil kettle with 15 min left to sanitize, start recirc and cooling at the same time. You can shut off the cooling water at any temp you want for however long you want for your hopstand then continue cooling to pitching temp.
Obviously you need a pump and notched lid but it sure makes the whole process nice and easy.