Dry Hopping Infection

Not sure if this belongs here (I'm sure the moderators will move if need be), but I had a batch of beer that tasted fantastic when moving from primary to secondary and measured 1010 on the hydro. I dry hopped with an ounce of cascade in the secondary and it appeared to start refermenting. This went on for a month (visible bubbles in the secondary streaming to the top). When I kegged it the gravity had dropped to 1006 (started around 1054 I believe) and it tasted blah.

I am seriously considering giving up dry hopping for ever. Anyone else have this happen and how can I prevent it?

hops have antibacterial properties so you likely didn't get an infection. I have heard beer sitting on hops for too long results in grassy tastes.

How long was it in the primary before being moved?

This recently happened to me. Beautiful primary beer, racked to secondary and added 1oz hallertau pellets and after 5 days i noticed airlock activity and a thin white foam head in the secondary. I let it go a couple more days and then kegged it - the final gravity was 1.009. The beer has lagered now for more than a month, tastes pretty grassy still but is slowly mellowing. No idea if it was wild activity. I think I am done with true dry-hopping though - I'm not a huge fan of the grassy flavors and don't really like waiting 2 months for those flavors to mellow out. I normally pseudo-dry hop by adding just as I turn off the burner.

Are you positive the beer was finished at 1.010? Did it remain at that reading for 2-3 days? When you rack to secondary, there is still CO2 in solution that will continue gas out, creating bubbles and airlock activity. There is also the possibility that yeast dropped out before finishing and got roused back up when you racked. Does the beer have off-flavors, or does it just taste "blah?" I'm just skeptical since infections from dry hopping aren't very typical.

Also, 1 month is way too long for dry hopping. Usually 10-14 days is enough. Over 14 days is when things start to get grassy.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if you really do have an infection (and I'm not convinced that you do by what has been said) that it wasn't the dry-hopping. There are simply just too many other variables going on here to say without a doubt that it was the hops. You've moved to a new vessel. To do so you used a racking cane, hose, the new vessel itself. And as mentioned above transferring will rouse up some yeast possibly getting a little more feeding time in.

Not trying to change your mind on dry-hopping...if you don't like it don't do it. But I think it's wrong to say it caused an infection when it really hasn't.

The thin white skin/head that develops in secondary after dryhopping has freaked out many a first time dry hopper......Including me, but Biermuncher explained it to me.

Sometimes the oil leaching off the hops forms an oil slick on the surface of the beer (that whole oil and water thing) and that slick traps co2 rising from the bottom of the beer and makes for some scary/ugly and infected looking stuff.

It usually isn't.

Your airlock bubbling could be any number of things, least of which is an infection.....Unless you take a grav reading and the beer has dropped below the FG of your recipe more than likely you nudge the fermenter somehow and it's off gassing, your temps warmed a bit and the yeasts woke up and decided to do some more work, or anything.....

If it tastes and smells fine, then it's probably not an infection.

Like someone else pointed out, the hops have a preservative effect so it's not likely a source of infection, additionally you are adding them to alcohol, not "at risk" wort.

So I'm going to say more than likely your beer is NOT infected and everything is fine...The variable against it being an infection are just too high.

I had a batch infected from dry hopping recently.

BUT, it wasnt the hops... it was however the grain dust that was still on my scale that ALSO made it into my fermentor.

It began slowly bubbling away after reaching terminal gravity... tasted AWESOME before the dry hop... after the dry hop and "bubbling" it tasted sour, nasty... undrinkable.

May not be the hops, but what accompanied them.

Infected beer will not taste "blah", believe me. More likely, the very low FG didn't leave you much malt or any residual sweetness. A little maltodextrine would take care of the former and a small amount of lactose the latter.

Infected beer would likely taste sour IMO. Not just blah. Blah could be that it needs tiem to mellow in the bottle or keg and some CO2 to give it a kick.

OldSole said:

Are you positive the beer was finished at 1.010? Did it remain at that reading for 2-3 days? When you rack to secondary, there is still CO2 in solution that will continue gas out, creating bubbles and airlock activity. There is also the possibility that yeast dropped out before finishing and got roused back up when you racked. Does the beer have off-flavors, or does it just taste "blah?" I'm just skeptical since infections from dry hopping aren't very typical.

Also, 1 month is way too long for dry hopping. Usually 10-14 days is enough. Over 14 days is when things start to get grassy.

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It was in the primary for about 2.5 weeks and all apparent activity had stopped. I know hops has anti-bacterial properties, I was more referring to a wild yeast infection that has the ability to overattenuate the beer (similar to a gusher bug without quite that extreme) and negatively affect the taste. I will taste it again in a bit, but it did have a harsh aftertaste that was not present before in addition to the total lack of maltiness. I did not intend to dry hop it that long, I just wanted it to stop bubbling away before kegging.

People keep mentioning the antimicrobial properties of hops, but remember, it's the isomerized alpha acids that inhibit bacterial growth. Dry hopping does not contribute iso-AA, so don't think you're increasing your beer's bacterial resistance when you add hops to a wort/beer that's already been boiled.

Still, I agree that your dry hops probably weren't the culprit for the extra attenuation. I recently made a barleywine with a similar problem. It appeared to finish fermenting, no airlock activity for a few days. So I racked to secondary on top of 2oz of various hops, only to be surprised that the gravity was way higher than expected. Sure enough, the beer had some more fermentation to go through.

I decided to dry hop for a little longer than the standard length and went a full 21 days. I figured that the extra time would be okay because the refermenting wort would scrub away some of the aromas, plus I'll be aging it for awhile and therefore losing more aroma. Even if a bit of grassiness comes through in the end, I think I'll be fine with that because man I love those citrusy American hops...

joety said:

It was in the primary for about 2.5 weeks and all apparent activity had stopped. I know hops has anti-bacterial properties, I was more referring to a wild yeast infection that has the ability to overattenuate the beer (similar to a gusher bug without quite that extreme) and negatively affect the taste. I will taste it again in a bit, but it did have a harsh aftertaste that was not present before in addition to the total lack of maltiness. I did not intend to dry hop it that long, I just wanted it to stop bubbling away before kegging.

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I just bottled a batch that took over four weeks to finish fermentation, for reasons that only the beer gods know. I've made this beer many times, yet this particular time it was very slow. It's entirely possible that your beer wasn't QUITE finished yet. As for the flavor, others have already pointed out that the dry hop was too long. Just give it some time to mellow.

Teacher said:

I just bottled a batch that took over four weeks to finish fermentation, for reasons that only the beer gods know. I've made this beer many times, yet this particular time it was very slow. It's entirely possible that your beer wasn't QUITE finished yet. As for the flavor, others have already pointed out that the dry hop was too long. Just give it some time to mellow.

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It's possible, but there was clearly a visible change in behavior. I know that's not the most exacting way to determing whether fermenting has stopped (I've had a big porter drop from 1025 to 1021 in the secondary long after any visible signs of fermentation) but I now have a beer that tasted fantastic and no longer does.

I'm guessing that either you oxidized your wort when siphoning (which would explain the taste change but not necessarily the gravity change) or you got the yeast reinvigorated when transferring, or maybe a combination. Like others, I doubt it was the hops that did this to you, but it could be something about moving it to secondary.

Homercidal said:

Infected beer would likely taste sour IMO. Not just blah. Blah could be that it needs tiem to mellow in the bottle or keg and some CO2 to give it a kick.

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If anybody is wondering what an infected beer DOES taste like, I've got five gallons of SOUR Oktoberfest up for grabs

OldSole said:

Also, 1 month is way too long for dry hopping. Usually 10-14 days is enough. Over 14 days is when things start to get grassy.

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This certainly is not true. I often dry hop in cornies (tea ball) while on tap. I have had a keg go 6 weeks and many 3 to 4 weeks with no "grassy" taste.

wildwest450 said:

This certainly is not true. I often dry hop in cornies (tea ball) while on tap. I have had a keg go 6 weeks and many 3 to 4 weeks with no "grassy" taste.

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There is so much bad brewing info out there that just gets repeated as fact.

I have never dry hopped over 2 weeks, but I am not surprised if it doesnt matter... I have heard of ppl dry hopping in the corny too, so that makes sense.

The Pol said:

There is so much bad brewing info out there that just gets repeated as fact.

I have never dry hopped over 2 weeks, but I am not surprised if it doesnt matter... I have heard of ppl dry hopping in the corny too, so that makes sense.

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Yea, im not advocating dry hopping in a secondary for a month. But I have done it many times in a keg with no adverse effects.

The recent BN Sunday Session on Dry Hopping has a lot of useful info, with the guest saying he's dry hopped cold in kegs for around 8 weeks (if I remember correctly)

Im not sure that this will help...but one time in Jr, highschool I got a dry humping infection.

wildwest450 said:

This certainly is not true. I often dry hop in cornies (tea ball) while on tap. I have had a keg go 6 weeks and many 3 to 4 weeks with no "grassy" taste.

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I respectfully disagree, but this may just be a question of individual palate preferences and sensitivities. It's likely a function of hop variety as well. Cold dry-hopping may even yield completely different results from doing so in secondary at room temperature.

flyangler18 said:

Cold dry-hopping may even yield completely different results from doing so in secondary at room temperature.

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That may well be. My experience with extended dry hopping has always been at serving temps, 42f. My problem is blanket statements being tossed around as if they were fact.

An unscientific response maybe, but if there were a risk of infection from dry hopping, why would it be done with some commercial brews? What company would take that risk? It used to be the case that barrels would be dry hopped while actually leaving the brewery. I tend to think The Pol had it when he said something else took a free ride with the hops.

Disclaimer, this is all speculation on my part. This post is not representative of any actual knowlege I may or may not have, and does not represent the opin ions of my immediate family or my dogs.

mkling said:

I'm guessing that either you oxidized your wort when siphoning (which would explain the taste change but not necessarily the gravity change) or you got the yeast reinvigorated when transferring, or maybe a combination. Like others, I doubt it was the hops that did this to you, but it could be something about moving it to secondary.

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+ 1 on oxidation. it happened to me recently, and my awesome IPA hydro samples now taste real blah from the bottle. I have resorted to putting a few hops in the bottle after opening to mask it.

midfielder5 said:

+ 1 on oxidation. it happened to me recently, and my awesome IPA hydro samples now taste real blah from the bottle. I have resorted to putting a few hops in the bottle after opening to mask it.

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deterioration in taste due to oxidation is pretty easy to nail down, just by the way it tastes. not sure what the OP means by 'blah' exactly, but i think his concern regarding wild yeast is perfectly viable...of course, where it came from is anyone's guess. bacterial infection just seems less likely due to the alcohol content and the fact that it would more likely taste like *ss and not just blah (fortunately, i've been spared a bacterial infection thus far, so can't speak from experience).

i've got a wild yeast in my house that hit me recently in a 60 minute clone. i just happened to dry hop that one, as well (in the primary, so no racking), but am not going to blame it on the dh process. i encountered its presence a few years back due to inadvertent poor sanitation, so i know what that little b@stard of a yeast tastes like....in fact, i should name him.

anyway, my 60 minute clone is definitely drinkable, but is more alcoholic and is much less sweet than i intended and has a definite clovey taste, imparted by my house yeast strain. it works best if i think of it as a belgian american ipa when i drink it.

BuzzCraft said:

deterioration in taste due to oxidation is pretty easy to nail down, just by the way it tastes. not sure what the OP means by 'blah' exactly, but i think his concern regarding wild yeast is perfectly viable...of course, where it came from is anyone's guess. bacterial infection just seems less likely due to the alcohol content and the fact that it would more likely taste like *ss and not just blah (fortunately, i've been spared a bacterial infection thus far, so can't speak from experience).

i've got a wild yeast in my house that hit me recently in a 60 minute clone. i just happened to dry hop that one, as well (in the primary, so no racking), but am not going to blame it on the dh process. i encountered its presence a few years back due to inadvertent poor sanitation, so i know what that little b@stard of a yeast tastes like....in fact, i should name him.

anyway, my 60 minute clone is definitely drinkable, but is more alcoholic and is much less sweet than i intended and has a definite clovey taste, imparted by my house yeast strain. it works best if i think of it as a belgian american ipa when i drink it.

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Thanks, I've had oxidized beer before and I know the taste. This is not the taste. By blah I mean the maltiness is gone and there is an astringent aftertaste that is not "cardboardy" at all. This is a clear change from when I racked to the secondary well after primary fermentation was complete.

wildwest450 said:

This certainly is not true. I often dry hop in cornies (tea ball) while on tap. I have had a keg go 6 weeks and many 3 to 4 weeks with no "grassy" taste.

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I dry hopped an IBA in the keg at serving temp and pressure, using a muslin bag though. After 24 hours it tasted great, yesterday was 6 days and the grassyness was very very strong. Used 1.5 ounces 2009 whole leaf cascades. Although leaving them in the keg/secondary for 2+ weeks seems to be fine most of the time, sometimes it doesn't take very long at all. I had all the flavor I wanted after 24 hours, so from now on I doubt ill dryhop for more than a few days.

Edit: Also, alpha acids are anti-microbial on their own, the isomerization that occurs during the boil affects the flavor and bitterness, I haven't read anything where it increases the anti-microbial aspect of the alpha-acids.

kanzimonson said:

People keep mentioning the antimicrobial properties of hops, but remember, it's the isomerized alpha acids that inhibit bacterial growth. Dry hopping does not contribute iso-AA, so don't think you're increasing your beer's bacterial resistance when you add hops to a wort/beer that's already been boiled.

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Not quite, all the hops acids inhibit bacterial growth. You just have to isomerize the alpha acids if you want them to bitter the beer.


TL

With all the reasons and the information being presented I am still left with one question. What is the best course of action then if you start dry hopping in what you thought was a finished secondary and it reactivates and starts fermenting? I am in this boat as well. I had three days of no airlock activity in my primary. I was a bit above my FG desired but am getting my efficiency and attenuation issues worked out so I wasn't surprised. I figured all was done. Now I have a consistent fermentation for the last week. So do I get it off the hops? Do I rack it? Do I cold crash it? Dump it? Thanks!!!!



J8D

wildwest450 said:

Yea, im not advocating dry hopping in a secondary for a month. But I have done it many times in a keg with no adverse effects.

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If you are dry hopping cold there is no worries of a grass-like taste, but try it at 65 or 70, I bet it will get that way in a months time. keeping in mind, BJCP allows for a slight grassy aroma in IPAs.

Well, I've ruined two beers this way so if I'm going to be making IPA's in the future (and I'm getting kind of burned out on IPA's anyway), they'll be final hopped at flameout.

6 hours is way too much time to put into a washout

joety said:

It's possible, but there was clearly a visible change in behavior. I know that's not the most exacting way to determing whether fermenting has stopped (I've had a big porter drop from 1025 to 1021 in the secondary long after any visible signs of fermentation) but I now have a beer that tasted fantastic and no longer does.

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You switched containers. Its most likely an equipment problem (infection in siphon, the target carboy, etc)

1: Airlock activity is NOT ALWAYS an indication of fermentation activity
2: Re-starting fermentation COULD have been cause because the beer wasnt quite done and the racking onto hops created nucleation points for the yeast (think of the hops as the Beechwood in this passage)

Many old-world brewers used beechwood chips instead of other types of wood because beechwood is low in phenolics and resins that otherwise would impart woody flavor to the beer. These chips are boiled in water and baking soda-and not soda ash-before use. Having a latticework of beechwood chips on the bottom of our lager tanks allows our lager yeast to settle over the wood instead of creating layers at the bottom of the vessel. This in turn allows a greater amount of yeast contact with aging beer, which ensures complete fermentation, natural carbonation and flavor maturation.

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babalu87 said:

1: Airlock activity is NOT ALWAYS an indication of fermentation activity

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No, but a drop of 4 points in gravity certainly is.

babalu87 said:

2: Re-starting fermentation COULD have been cause because the beer wasnt quite done and the racking onto hops created nucleation points for the yeast (think of the hops as the Beechwood in this passage)

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Based on the OG and my typical techniques, no way I would have expected 1006 as my FG.

I hear you on the nucleation points. That could be it. I didn't change anything in how I sanitized my hoses, containers and racked, but I have since replaced all the flexible tubing.

It's just odd that the only time it happened was the last two beers I dry hopped and nothing else. I have dry hopped before with great results, but not with hops from this store which were clearly repackaged after he got them from the distributor. We now have a Northern Brewer in town so I doubt I'll ever buy hops from this store again.