sour taste in experimental Pumpkin/apple/maple

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 2, 2012

I brewed a pretty experimental batch of beer for the first time involving pumpkins, apples, and maple syrup. after about 2 weeks of fermentation it is tasting pretty sour. Is it possible that the sour taste might go away with time? if not might i salvage it somehow?

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 3, 2012

Cmon Dudes. Basically im wondering if sourness is common in apple beverages like perhaps ciders? If so, does it mellow with time? If not might I think about sweetening it with honey or something? I have seen this done with meads after fermentation is complete.
help a brewer out.

CadillacAndy · Oct 3, 2012

The only time I get sour flavors is when there has been a contamination - lacto mainly. Is there a white skin on top that looks like a spider web?

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 3, 2012

Nope. Nothing looks unusual about the beer.

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 3, 2012

you seem like apple people. how do apple beverages change over time? maybe its not entirely sour as much as it is just not tasting as amazing as id hoped.

CadillacAndy · Oct 3, 2012

Anything with a lot of simple sugar (apple juice) always tastes hot/boozy until its had ample time to age. The time depends on how much alcohol is present. What yeast did you use and what was the fermentation temp?

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 3, 2012

california common ale yeast. ambient room temperatures anywhere from 60 to 75. The hot boozy taste makes sense. I wasn't too diligent about gravity readings, but i don't imagine the ABV is above 5%. Thanks.

CadillacAndy · Oct 3, 2012

What was your recipe? Any idea of the starting gravity? I can plug some stuff in to Beersmith to get a ballpark for you if you didn't take a starting gravity.

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 3, 2012

OG was 1043 but i don't think it was properly stirred or cooled, so it was likely higher. gravity when racking to secondary was 1010.
recipe was a little complicated but basically 2 pounds 2 row. 3 pounds DME. 500 millilitres maple syrup. 1 litter of apple juice. 6 pounds of pumpkin and 1 pound of apples.

JOE_R · Oct 3, 2012

I brewed a pumpkin ale and put 3# in the boil and 3# in primary. There was a VERY mild sour taste that complimented the hops well. I think that placing the pumpkin in the primary will give this mild sour taste. The apples and maple syrup.... well someone else can answer that. Below is the post where it was discussed.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/pu...boil-mash-both-356841/index2.html#post4456285

jwplessner · Oct 3, 2012

Did your apple juice have ascorbic acid?

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 3, 2012

Thanks Joe. So you put 3 # of roasted pumpkin in the secondary and you think it is contributing to the sour taste?
My sour taste is pretty light, but other flavour are pretty week too, so i put a cinnamon stick in the other day and am thinking about following up with some other spices, maybe honey or maple syrup, or even some fruits, like apple perhaps.

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 4, 2012

no ascorbic acid as i recall. it was non pasteurized. I added it near the end of the boil.

WileECoyote · Oct 4, 2012

cadillacandy said:
The only time I get sour flavors is when there has been a contamination - lacto mainly. Is there a white skin on top that looks like a spider web?

Hello, not all infections have a white skin or spider web looking stuff on top, I have a infection that is wreaking havoc on my brews right now and there is No visible sign of infection what so ever, my brews are as clean/clear looking as the day is long, but they are very very sour lemon-aid tasting.

Hope the OP isn't dealing with what I am.

Cheers :mug:

CadillacAndy · Oct 4, 2012

WileECoyote said:
Hello, not all infections have a white skin or spider web looking stuff on top, I have a infection that is wreaking havoc on my brews right now and there is No visible sign of infection what so ever, my brews are as clean/clear looking as the day is long, but they are very very sour lemon-aid tasting.

Hope the OP isn't dealing with what I am.

Cheers

Very true. Each one does different things in different conditions - depending on oxygen and co2. It's my understanding that lacto forms the pellicle as a barrier between it and oxygen, so if there's no oxygen, it doesn't need the protective barrier. I'm still learning about all this stuff, so if I'm off, please let me know so I'm not passing around incorrect info. :mug:

JOE_R · Oct 4, 2012

In the boil and in PRIMARY not secondary. Tasted great.

JOE_R · Oct 4, 2012

The LHBS recently told me that he ferments 3-5 days with just wort and yeast THEN adds pumpkin to the primary and gives it 10+ days. He does this with honey also. Try adding the pumpkin and sugars AFTER the yeast has worked for 3-5 days. He was brewing the Presidential Honey Ale recipe that day. That's how the conversation came up.

WileECoyote · Oct 5, 2012

cadillacandy said:
Very true. Each one does different things in different conditions - depending on oxygen and co2. It's my understanding that lacto forms the pellicle as a barrier between it and oxygen, so if there's no oxygen, it doesn't need the protective barrier. I'm still learning about all this stuff, so if I'm off, please let me know so I'm not passing around incorrect info.

Hello cadillacandy, Im still new too, and I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you on anything, Sorry if that is how I came across, I was just trying to add to your post, and the only reason I knew about this, is because I have been dealing with this stubborn infection for a little over 3 months now, Im pretty sure its a lacto infection since it has a very very sour lemon taste, the thing that gets me is how fast it sours (6 to 8 days in primary) and every batch is as clear as the day is long, also a 3 hr soaking bleach bomb nuking, then Star-Saning 1/2 hr soaking didn't faze it.

The only saving grace (if there is one) is that I have been doing saison batches, and the combo of saison/sour makes a very good shandy, A 50/50 mix of tonic water and this brew is really pretty good :tank:

Cheers

CadillacAndy · Oct 5, 2012

WileECoyote said:
Hello cadillacandy, Im still new too, and I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you on anything, Sorry if that is how I came across, I was just trying to add to your post, and the only reason I knew about this, is because I have been dealing with this stubborn infection for a little over 3 months now, Im pretty sure its a lacto infection since it has a very very sour lemon taste, the thing that gets me is how fast it sours (6 to 8 days in primary) and every batch is as clear as the day is long, also a 3 hr soaking bleach bomb nuking, then Star-Saning 1/2 hr soaking didn't faze it.

The only saving grace (if there is one) is that I have been doing saison batches, and the combo of saison/sour makes a very good shandy, A 50/50 mix of tonic water and this brew is really pretty good

Cheers

Not at all! I really appreciate you making sure I didn't think that. Hopefully you thought I was being defensive. Stupid internet and the lack of vocal inflection...

I had a very similar problem about a year ago. I dumped at least 5 beers that tasted exactly like you're describing. I ended up ditching all my buckets and cleaning my fermentation room with bleach from floor to ceiling. I was also using a different sanitizer - thought it was "generic" starsan, but it was different.

I'm pretty sure it was a wild lacto infection and I never really noticed a pellicle or anything else either.

Hopefully you'll be able to get the problem figured out and resolved. :mug:

RowleseyCraftFoods · Oct 5, 2012

Well my beer is starting to taste great. after introducing a cinnamon stick a couple days ago it is starting to take on a real holiday flavour. O I'm running with it. blended about ten apples with half a cup of maple syrup. some ginger, cinnamon and nutmeg and just introduced it to the carboy. how about them apples.

sour taste in experimental Pumpkin/apple/maple

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