To Brutus, or not to Brutus. That is the question...

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user 40839

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Lads, I need help. (On so many levels...)

My setup at the moment is an 8 gallon Morebeer pot, on a Bayou Classic burner, an old 5 gallon turkey fryer pot that sort of acts as my HLT, and an 40qt Igloo ice cube MLT. Recently, I came into posession of a pair of Sankes which are being converted to keggles as I want to make the step to 10 gallon batches. (One's going to be a boil kettle, one's going to be the HLT - and the parts JUST showed up from bargainfittings, but have to wait for Santa to bring me my angle grinder!)

Which means... I want a brewstand, since I'm sick to death of crouching on the floor of my garage over my wee burner.

First thought went to a three tier gravity system. Easiest to knock together, and a nice small footprint - space is at a premium in my garage (SWMBO for some reason thinks that CARS belong in the garage, as opposed to tools!) But the kicker is a low ceiling in the garage, and brewing outside isn't an option (my driveway's on a wicked slope) - and the fact that I'm a short stubby wee fecker at 5'6, with dodgy knees who'd rather not be hopping up and down on a ladder.

So I started kicking around a design in my head, basically copying Scuba Steve's Stainless cart rig using a shortened 40" Brutus frame with two burners as opposed to three, instead of a cart, the second tier would be almost to the floor to accomodate about 24" of "shelf space" for the MLT. I was getting more and more eager about this until a friend looked at what I'd sketched out on a notepad and said "given how hot those burners get, wouldn't your MLT on the bottom shelf melt, or at least get really hot?"

D'oh!

So more and more I've been eyeing the Brutus. Up until sometime today, I'd made up my mind that I just needed a stand and burners - no need for a HERMS setup, since I think that part of the fun of home brewing lies in tweaking your heat *just* right, watching your dials and temperature surfing, as opposed to having it somewhat automated. Then I cracked my latest brew, and once more it tastes feckin' foul. So maybe a little mechanical help wouldn't go astray.

The obstacles between me and the Brutus are the same as 99% of the HBT members - space, ability, and money. I can't weld - and as much as every Brutus thread I read usually is filled with the advice of "Just buy a welder and do it yourself", that's not realistic for me. One, I don't have anywhere to put it, and two, my wife would beat the everloving ****e out of me if I bought a tool *just* for this (Really. I'm a graphic designer. What else would I use a welder for?!) so the only option is to have a shop do it, or (hope against hope) there's someone I know who just HAPPENS to be able to TIG weld. (Woohoo!)

So cost really becomes the big issue. Of course. I read Yooperbrew's thread asking for input for *her* (thanks, dave!) brewstand, and when I read that her monthly "allowance" of explanation-free funds drops to just $600, I almost chucked my poor mac out the window! Like everyone else, I have to do it piecemeal, only I have the "benefit" of living in the Bay Area, where everything's twice as expensive as everywhere else, and comes with a fun 10% sales tax too. So even though I've seen posts where people say they've built the big 'un for $700, I can't see it happening for me. (Chances are I *might* get the bare stand with the burners and plumbing for that, without talking about the HERMS system, pumps, or chiller)

So any advice folks can give me is appreciated. The nice thing about the Brutus is, I guess, it's a setup that will last me for years, and even if I do outgrow it, I should be able to find a good home for it and not be completely out of pocket (like my other hobby, mountain biking!). Is there anyone who has the plans who could share a parts list? Not the plans, which I know are available on the BYO site for a fee, which I don't mind paying, but just a parts list to see how much it's going to set me back? (The BYO plans are mailed - and if this is something I might be able to swing, then I'd rather know ASAP so I can ask "Santa" for some of the components!) Is there a comparable system that can be built for less? (I've thought about a wooden rig, but the thought of high powered burners plus wood equals nervous me and terrified wife!)

And apologies for making this long winded. Thanks for bearing with me. As a way of saying sorry, here's a picture of Jessica Alba in Sin City:

sin_city.jpg


(Mmm... makes everything better!)
 
Yoop's a gal

Check my build thread in my sig.
Ooop! I'll edit accordingly. And when I click the link in yer siggy, I get sent to Flicker and am told I don't have permission to view it!
 
Nice... didn't even ponder a RIMS setup, might work - especially since you seem to have been able to build on a budget. But as the trend goes, the folks who can pop a stand out with some form of temperature control (HERMS or RIMS) for under $1,000 either have gotten the steel free/cheap, and have the ability to weld it themselves. I'm thinking that's going to be my downfall, and the cost that's going to make this impossible for me.
 
Myself, i'd aim for the brutus stand... there's no rules saying that you have to build the complete system right away to use it. you can add controllers and fancy stuff later if you like. plus it's so popular that if the stand was built by the books, you would have no problem selling it later. If you were going to build a brutus, it seems like a logical starting point.
 
Myself, i'd aim for the brutus stand... there's no rules saying that you have to build the complete system right away to use it. you can add controllers and fancy stuff later if you like. plus it's so popular that if the stand was built by the books, you would have no problem selling it later. If you were going to build a brutus, it seems like a logical starting point.

x2


I'm thinking that's going to be my downfall, and the cost that's going to make this impossible for me.

You mentioned you're a graphic designer. Why not post up on CL and see if a welder needs some design work in trade for a little welding?
 
Not a bad idea there, orangebrew - a little barter action.

Yeah, more and more I'm leaning towards the Brutus. At least in my head, I am (in reality, maybe I'll get another turkey fryer, or something, and put it on a wooden box!) To start, just get the stand and the pumps, then add all the fancy shmancy HERMS action later...

So, does anyone have a parts list (again, not looking for the plans) to see how much this project is going to set me back, soup to nuts? Seems like...

40 feet of 2" square tubing for the frame (and some poor soul to weld it)
2X banjo burners (HLT, BK)
1X smaller burner (MLT)
30psi regulator
Black pipe and fittings to plumb it all
2X March pumps
1X counterflow chiller

Anything beyond that is for the HERMS?
 
Not a bad idea there, orangebrew - a little barter action.

Yeah, more and more I'm leaning towards the Brutus. At least in my head, I am (in reality, maybe I'll get another turkey fryer, or something, and put it on a wooden box!) To start, just get the stand and the pumps, then add all the fancy shmancy HERMS action later...

So, does anyone have a parts list (again, not looking for the plans) to see how much this project is going to set me back, soup to nuts? Seems like...

40 feet of 2" square tubing for the frame (and some poor soul to weld it)
2X banjo burners (HLT, BK)
1X smaller burner (MLT)
30psi regulator
Black pipe and fittings to plumb it all
2X March pumps
1X counterflow chiller

Anything beyond that is for the HERMS?

Have you thought about maybe just asking Lonnie Mac? I hear he is a pretty swell guy! :)
 
Anybody outsource the welding of the Brutus frame? What's a good estimate of this?
 
That's what I'm currently trying to figure out. I asked Lonnie about it, he said he did it in a weekend, but that was devoting the entire two days to it. This included grinding the welds and polishing (I think), tho - so I'm guessing a pro welder could do it in 8, leaving you to do the cleanup yourself?

I've seen welders on Craigslist charge $30 an hour for their time, so $250 plus materials? That's here in the Bay Area tho, but that's the LOWEST I've seen, so I couldn't imagine the quality of work would be too great. It'd still be better quality than my other option, which would be to rent a welder for a week for $100, and have a go myself.
 
I've seen welders on Craigslist charge $30 an hour for their time, so $250 plus materials? That's here in the Bay Area tho, but that's the LOWEST I've seen, so I couldn't imagine the quality of work would be too great. It'd still be better quality than my other option, which would be to rent a welder for a week for $100, and have a go myself.
*takes deep breath*

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha!!!

So I just got back from my local fab shop. Took the sketches of the brutus frame in there, and asked for two prices - one with 2" 1/16 carbon steel, and one for 2" 1/16 stainless. He looked them over, mentioned that thy looked really straightforward, an he'd be able to turn it around in a day. Materials for the carbon, $130. Materials for the stainless, $280. Not bad, promising!
Labour? $750 for the carbon, $950 for the stainless!!! :drunk:

So, erm, looks like I'm either renting a welder, or building a wooden rig!
 
I bought 4x10' 1.5inch pieces of steel. Mine wasnt stainless though (thats too rich for me) I made the cuts myself and deburred it. Then I just took the pieces to a welder and it cost something like $150 to have it welded, and he did one hell of a good job.
 
Check you local "Adult Continuing Education" listings. My area has them ALL THE TIME. Carpentry, plumbing and WELDING classes.

Take the class. GREAT info to know even if you NEVER use it. Suck up or I should say work in good with the instructor. My class was at a local High School. There was a guy there that got his Kegs Tigged as a CLASS PROJECT for FREE! One guy in the class got his re-do of a Land Rover Body welded for FREE as a class project.
almost.jpg

MANY ways to skin a cat.

I myself bought a welder, practiced and welded my own. It will NEVER get me in the Iron Workers Local, but for a brutus, it is fantastic.
9_5b.jpg


P.S. Lonnie was a huge help in the finishing stages. Kevin Ladue, here on the forum, was a HUGE help with the burners, controller and electronics
 
Simphoto, love the hinged control panel arm... nice idea!

So I bombarded a bunch of folks on Craigslist who were advertising their services. Cheapest I found was $25 an hour, so I'm (guessing) he'd want $200 to weld it up for me, which I'm fine with. Or, I could head to All Star Rentals down the street, and rent a welding machine for the weekend for $100. I dunno, I'm just convinced/terrified that if I do this myself, at some point in the stand's future it'll collapse with lit propane burners and gallons of boiling wort everywhere.

Or I could build one out of 2x4s and Hardie board for $65!
 
How soon are you looking to do this? I'm in Sebastopol and just bought a house with a shop, you are around 30 min away. I have an HTP 200 MIG welder and just enough skills to be dangerous with it. I'm going to do a Brutus frame, but it will be a few weeks before I'm settled in and can start on it. We could team up and do two. We need to sit down and have a homebrew and discuss it, if you are interested. I've got some cold Memory Lapse APA on tap.
 
How soon are you looking to do this? I'm in Sebastopol and just bought a house with a shop, you are around 30 min away. I have an HTP 200 MIG welder and just enough skills to be dangerous with it. I'm going to do a Brutus frame, but it will be a few weeks before I'm settled in and can start on it. We could team up and do two. We need to sit down and have a homebrew and discuss it, if you are interested. I've got some cold Memory Lapse APA on tap.
You're kidding, right?

Seriously.

So you're suggesting I come up there, we drink beer, and weld ****.

Hmm.

Lemme think about it.... oh, alright!

In terms of when I want to do it... it's sort of irrelevant. I mean, if the beer gods dropped a perfectly formed frame out of titanium on me in the morning, it'd be pointless - since I still have to buy burners, snag another keg and form it into a mash tun, etc. And honestly, I don't want to do 10 gallon batches until I have a kegging setup - since bottling 4+ cases of beer at a time isn't my idea of fun. So I can cheerfully wait a few weeks on this.

(Bear with me - friday night, wife's out of town = me hammered with the boys)
 
Yeah, well maybe sit down and talk about what you are looking to build and your time frame first. I'm jammed up with this new place, I've got a todo list a mile long and I've got to move my welder, plasma cutter and grinder etc out of storage and put in the man cave and organized. So I'm talking a few weeks out probably. Having said that, my wife and I start happy hour around 4PM pretty much every day if you wanted to stop by around then for a cold one. Pick a day and I'll let you know if we are available.

Haha.. I'm a bit toasty as well, like I said this Memory Lapse APA is too damn tasty.
 
Ricand, with welding gear and the willingness to use it + goodness on tap... this is going to be the start of a beautiful friendship!! :D

Seriously tho, my situation is this: I'm on 5 gallon batches, and I just moved to all grain a few months back, but already know that shuffling coolers around on the floor of my garage, while trying desperately to hit the right temperature for my mash water using an aluminium pot and a meat thermometer (yes, a meat thermometer!) on a turkey fryer isn't working out too well. I need a better system - but when I look at the Brutus setup, I'm more or less starting from scratch.

The plan is to get myself a frame, add burners, a pump and counterflow/plate chiller, and run it manually for a while. Based on Lonnie's plans, that SHOULD be sub $600. Only, you know what this place is like in terms of the cost of everything...

Down the road, I'll add the ASCO valves, the love controllers, and the HERMS setup. But at this stage in my homebrewing career, I think I'd be better served getting my single infusion technique down - and getting confident in making good beer the old fashioned way - before blowing my wad on a full $2k HERMS. (At least that's what my wife would say!)

If the option is there for me to wait a month or two to weld this with a fellow homebrewer (who knows what they're doing with a welder!), then I have NO problem with that, since I can be squirrelling away funds for the pumps, chiller, quick connects et al anyways.
 
I'm doing 10 gal AG batches with a keggle. I have one pump, but my brewing still involves patio furniture and turkey fryer burners. I AM putting out some beers other people like too. My first few were like your own farts, you know, you are ok with them, but no one else liked them. My first priority is to get off the floor and on to a stand, so I think we both are in the same boat that way. Last week I ordered a 6" jet burner for one of the positions from the Chinese kitchen supply place . Craigslist find already was a 14' piece of .120 2X2 304 stainless, 26 ft to go. I'm checking a metal supply store for pricing in Windsor this next week. Maybe check down there see what prices you can get closer to the city. Let's do this thing!
 
Nice one on the Craigslist find!

I swung into Zappetini's yesterday, and he gave me a quote of $280 for 40' of stainless - but that was 16GA, half the thickness of yours - which I plan on going with (I think 11GA is overkill for this, personally, and he agreed.) I'll phone around and see what prices I can get, but I'm betting they'll be cheaper further up 101 in your neck of the woods. There's also Metals Depot - although their freight confuses the hell out of me. The more you order from them, the cheaper the shipping??

Ordered my burners today ($80 shipped for two banjo burners from cookware.com)... most excited to get rolling!
 
Nice on the burners, are you going NG or propane? I'm on propane now, but want to drill out the banjo for NG as soon as I can. I'll use the jet on the BK if it works ok.

You thinking of a tippy dump? This one looks good..

http://s459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/barkerw/Brewery/?action=view&current=IMG_0915.jpg

Propane - I like having the flexibility of being able to wheel the stand around the garage, and wheeling it into the corner to store it (yes, I could do that with NG as well, I suppose... but didn't want to futz with the house's lines!)

I did actually ponder a tippy dump, but since I'd be using keggles, the MLT would need some serious modification in order for that to work - I mean, aside from the tippy mechanism, I'd imagine that the handles/skirt on the top of the kettle would need to be cut off as well (making it a pain in the arse to move around) since when you tip it, the spent grains would get stuck in that collar, the opening would have to be as wide as possible, as well as a chute for the grains to be directed out. Probably better off getting a 15 gallon pot to use as a MLT instead in that case. I just planned on doing it the old fashioned way, and if there's a ton of spent grain in there that makes it too heavy, that's when I bust out the shop vac to lighten the load!

One thing I did think about - a piece of hinged plate on one side that can be swung up and fixed in place for a work surface...
 
I have a metal brake to form the shelf if you want. I think it will only do up to 18 gauge though

I checked out the burners, but it looks like they don't come with orifices, lines or regulator. I was wanting to get an NG Banjo Version, but will need to research it a bit more. My small jet burner should be here this week, I may end up with those. I definitely want to do the gas beam, I just ordered the fittings from McMaster Carr today. I'm doing 3 1/2" SS 304 half couplings for the burners and one 3/4" for the inlet. They are about $3 each here.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-pipe-fittings/=4wyksm

Not sure what size you would use for propane, if you wanted to do the beam. It would have to be after the regulator for sure.

I have a beater pick up truck with a pipe rack on it, so I can pick up the long SS. Also, we can use it to get your Brutus to your place if you don't have one.

Since I don't have a band saw to cut the pieces, I was going to put a metal cutting blade in the chop saw. It would be a cleaner cut than the plasma torch.
 
R
The plan is to get myself a frame, add burners, a pump and counterflow/plate chiller, and run it manually for a while. Based on Lonnie's plans, that SHOULD be sub $600. Only, you know what this place is like in terms of the cost of everything...

I'm considering a similar plan - I'd like to my next project to be single tier system with the capability of later being converted to some kind of automation or something. On my pay it will have to be a 2 year project from start to HERMS.

Can you link or suggest some threads or other information on how to build the single tier, manually controlled system in such a way that conversion to HERMS requires an absolutely minimum of refabrication/alteration/replacement parts of the original manual/single tier system?

Of course I'm using this thread as a starting point, keep up the good work and updates! Thanks.

edit: I didn't notice this thread was a year old. What ended up happening? Did you build the first phase? Did you convert it to HERMS?

Clark
 
Nope, just built a Brutus following the plans (which wouldn't have happened without Ricand's help). It's direct fired mash, no HERMS...

IMG_01633.JPG
 
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