Flash boiler

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Nice build bro. You are going to wonder how you ever brewed without it.

Thank you,
You must own one yourself. Got any pics?:D How did you build yours?


I got some Silvaloy 15 today. Lets see if I can screw up the build now. The Silvaloy 15 should be the same thing as the Sil-fos that Swagman mentioned. Unless he was thinking of the Fos Flo 7.

This stuff is spendy. I know it isn't needed but I bought flux anayway. I figured since I am stuck with so much of this stuff I may as well have the flux so I can use it for other things to recoupe some cost.
 
Thank you,
You must own one yourself. Got any pics?:D How did you build yours?


I got some Silvaloy 15 today. Lets see if I can screw up the build now. The Silvaloy 15 should be the same thing as the Sil-fos that Swagman mentioned. Unless he was thinking of the Fos Flo 7.

This stuff is spendy. I know it isn't needed but I bought flux anayway. I figured since I am stuck with so much of this stuff I may as well have the flux so I can use it for other things to recoupe some cost.


That's one of them 15 slow flow 7 is a fast flow. Used both but with 15 you can do pretty work and it bridges great.


Dominus Vobiscum

Swagman:cool:
 
That's one of them 15 slow flow 7 is a fast flow. Used both but with 15 you can do pretty work and it bridges great.


Dominus Vobiscum

Swagman:cool:



So I have done a couple of test peices and I wonder if I am doing this wrong. I am getting a lot of scale built up. Is this normal for silver braze? I have not used this stuff before.
 
Well, for those of you who are HVAC techs and anyone who has mastered the art of brazing.......need not to worrie. I will not be taking your jobs any time soon. It just goes to show that everyone has thier nitch at what they like to do. Here are a couple pics of the newly brazed joint. Best I can tell so far there is no pin holes. I will do a more positive check of that once I get the connections put on so the unit can be removed for servicing should the need ever arise. I have bent the junction in some to be more of a tighter fit and follow the boiler curves after I took the photo.

I wish I could say I was driniking when I did this. I am not sure how you HVAC techs and plumbers keep things so clean.
P1010064.jpg


P1010063.jpg
 
Looks ok on this end man. No leaks and it won't break good job done



Swagman:cool:

Thanks Swagman,

I just don't have any real brazing experience not to mention with silver. I did some test pieces and then just for fun I twisted it into a pretzelish mess. The braze joints never opened up.
 


I didn't put any names to the back threads I read while I was deciding on building the boiler. I read your thread before I got started and it was a big help to me. Nice build, and glad to see you use it.

Do you have any other pics of the boiler? You did some mods to it but never put up any more pics. I am interested in how it goes up and down as well as the coil inside of a coil.

How are the compression fittings holding up? If I read it right, they are the simple brass ones from the depot right?
 
I didn't put any names to the back threads I read while I was deciding on building the boiler. I read your thread before I got started and it was a big help to me. Nice build, and glad to see you use it.

Do you have any other pics of the boiler? You did some mods to it but never put up any more pics. I am interested in how it goes up and down as well as the coil inside of a coil.

How are the compression fittings holding up? If I read it right, they are the simple brass ones from the depot right?

I never took new pics after changing the coils. It's really simple though. The water goes in on the bottom, coils to the top, then loops from top to bottom like 4 times then coils back down and out the bottom.

The compression fittings I silver soldered after it was all put together to make sure they never come apart until I want them too.

I think it takes me about 20 minutes to get 15 gallons up to around 160*. I try to go in a little low and then adjust the temp as needed.
I have also used this as a mashout. I pump the wort out of the tun and thru the FB then back into the tun to raise the temp. I have also done this but not back into the tun but into the kettle. Bringing it into the kettle at 200-210* making it very little time to get 47 gallons to a boil.
 
I never took new pics after changing the coils. It's really simple though. The water goes in on the bottom, coils to the top, then loops from top to bottom like 4 times then coils back down and out the bottom.

The compression fittings I silver soldered after it was all put together to make sure they never come apart until I want them too.

I think it takes me about 20 minutes to get 15 gallons up to around 160*. I try to go in a little low and then adjust the temp as needed.
I have also used this as a mashout. I pump the wort out of the tun and thru the FB then back into the tun to raise the temp. I have also done this but not back into the tun but into the kettle. Bringing it into the kettle at 200-210* making it very little time to get 47 gallons to a boil.


You must not be using a diffuser?? You just use it heat up whatever you need to but don't inject steam, right?
 
You must not be using a diffuser?? You just use it heat up whatever you need to but don't inject steam, right?

Right, I don't do steam. I can make steam with this but I don't. I have no need to make steam. The water goes from the FB into my HLT where I can adjust the temp as needed.
When doing a 35 gallon batch It not only goes to the HLT to be adjusted but also to a holding take until it's needed (I have no other way to hold 30+ gallons of sparge water).
 
Right, I don't do steam. I can make steam with this but I don't. I have no need to make steam. The water goes from the FB into my HLT where I can adjust the temp as needed.
When doing a 35 gallon batch It not only goes to the HLT to be adjusted but also to a holding take until it's needed (I have no other way to hold 30+ gallons of sparge water).


As you know mine is built as a copy of Kladue's design. I don't think I will pump wort through mine due to the size tubing I used. So I will be making the steam mixer for mine. That's nice that you can bump the wort temp going into your kettle like that.

Big batches on a small system done in no time. Very nice.
 
I got a little more work done. I made some mounting brackets for the boiler and got it hung inside the chimney by the top of the boiler. I will mount the bottom section once I get the burner mounted and I figure out how high things need to be. I can then cut the chimney to length ect...

Here are the brackets I moded.
P1010066.jpg


I flattened out 2 of the ears on the T-nut so it would sit nicely.
P1010067.jpg



Here is the boiler in the chimney.
P1010068.jpg

P1010069.jpg



Now, it is back to work out how I am going to do the burner setup.
 
That thing is pretty impressive! I can't wait to see it in action and your report on the results. Great job man.
 
OK, I have a base made. This is made from some scrap pieces I had around the garage. It is all together and I just need some small supplies to get it finished up. At least to a test stage. I will test it by heating up water and work out what I can before I build my diffuser for the steam injection. If all goes well I will put the mixing pieces together and give a mash a run. I can't wait.

On a side note, my TIG welder is acting up...... DAM# IT!!!!. It is a dinosour anyway I guess. I am just not ready for it to go out.


Here is a couple more shots.
All together, I got it a little off. It lists toward the back some.
P1010070.jpg


A closer shot of the base,
P1010071.jpg
 
exuse my stupidity but what the point/use for a flash boiler? what does it do?


Think of an on demand hot water heater. This is just more powerfull. I will use it to inject steam into my mash vorlauf to do step mashing or to hold temp. I will also use it to fill the mash tun with water that is already at temp. No waiting. In my new system once it is done, there will not ba a HLT. I wont have a need for one. I am hoping this will give me superheated steam at about 300 degrees. Not that I need steam that hot, but I want it to make steam that hot. Kinda a Tim Allen thing.
 
so you just run water through one side and it comes out boiling hot on the other? thats bad ass. ive been wanting to make a pressure vessel like the one yuri made out of the sanke keg. i would eleminate my hlt like he did. i dont know if it would work as good as the flash boiler.
 
so you just run water through one side and it comes out boiling hot on the other? thats bad ass. ive been wanting to make a pressure vessel like the one yuri made out of the sanke keg. i would eleminate my hlt like he did. i dont know if it would work as good as the flash boiler.

Right. The out put temp is based on flow rate and the amount of fire. This is a bit more safe then Yuri's, due to the fact that there is no pressure built up. All the regulation is done on the inlet side and the outlet is not restricted. This is one of the things that drew me to this idea. Kladue is the brains behind it all as far as I know. His builds used SS tubing and I believe mine it the first for 1/4" copper. The others have used larger diameter copper for thiers. This thing should get pretty toasty.
 
how many feet of tubing go into one of these?


Kladues builds used,
Build 1= 4 10' coils of 1/4" SS
Build 2= 4 20' coils of 1/4" SS
Kladue used 3/8" SS tubing as an inlet and outlet.

My build uses 4 12' coils of 1/4" copper. I am using 1/2" copper pipe as my inlet and outlet. I will also use 1/2" copper pipe to carry the steam to the mash tun where it will be reduced to 1/4" for the injection difuser.

I went with 12' coils cause that is what you can get out of a 50' roll. Ok, you get a tiny bit more but I rounded down.:D
 
Ok, I fired her up for the first time to see what it would do.

Outside temp= 50
Water temp= 47
Slight wind.

I looked up the weather for current conditions and they say the temp is 46 and a 7 MPH wind.

So my meter might be slightly off. Either way I think the temp increases will still show accurate, right?

So, I had slightly higher then .5 GPM flowing throught the boiler when I lit the fire. At max fire flowing the .5 GPM I achieved 137 degree water at the output.I then turned the water flow down a little bit and got in the 200's with steam. Now, the only time this thing shuttered or shimmied was when the water flow was turned down and what was left inside got heated up more and created the air pockets. Once it leveled out which was all of 5 sec. it was smooth and steady.

I wasn't sure just how low of flow I could run through it. So when I was in the 200's it still had water dribbling out. Which must be why I hit a temp barrier. Or the fact that my temp probe is touching the copper pipe and the water dribbling out.

Here is a couple pics of the test run. The temporay setup.
P1010078.jpg


At .5 GPM this is the output temp.
P1010079.jpg


Here is the upper limit. At the current settings I could not get above 212. It is kinda hard to see but, at the corner of the meter you can see the water dribbling out of the pipe.
P1010080.jpg
 
Awesome job, I bet it speeds up brew day by a good amount. Combine this with brew in a bag and you could prob. Brew in a few hours total.
 
Ok, I fired it back up and while I am not to sure of the flow rate. I do know it was more flow then Kladue mentions using, I had a small stream for about 5-6 inches off the end of the pip before it started to break into the beginings of drops. At that rate of flow and max fire I saw steam temp of over 400 degrees. I turned down the fire cause I saw the outlet pipe turning silver in color. I did get a shot of the temp at 366 degrees.:ban::mug:

P1010084.jpg



Edit: I moved the temp probe to sit about an inch away from the pipe outlet. So while the wind wasn't blowing it would read just the steam temp. Big difference when I moved the probe. And still no shuttering or anything.
 
Awsome, if you play with the air shutter on the burner and close it until flame tips turn yellow you will get more heat into the water. An acrylic flow meter from Dwyer would be a handy item for the water feed so you can hit repeatable flow rates for strike, sparge, and steam production modes. A needle valve on the gas is another should have item, tying to adjust with a ball valve is difficult at low flow rate for sparge heating. The shudder in the boiler usually happens during the transition from water to steam mode and only lasts a couple seconds then goes quiet again. Next up should be the steam-wort mixer then you can start heating a water flow through the mixer to see what the steam into flowing liquid can do.
 
Awsome, if you play with the air shutter on the burner and close it until flame tips turn yellow you will get more heat into the water. An acrylic flow meter from Dwyer would be a handy item for the water feed so you can hit repeatable flow rates for strike, sparge, and steam production modes. A needle valve on the gas is another should have item, tying to adjust with a ball valve is difficult at low flow rate for sparge heating. The shudder in the boiler usually happens during the transition from water to steam mode and only lasts a couple seconds then goes quiet again. Next up should be the steam-wort mixer then you can start heating a water flow through the mixer to see what the steam into flowing liquid can do.


My air shutter was almost closed off completly. I was supprised to see that when I looked.

You are absoulty right, the shutter happens only during the transition to steam mode.

Do you have any good sources on the flow meters? I also thought about a water regulator so I have a consistant water pressure.

I need to do some reading on plumbing of propane. I see the nice tubing to the burners and such but I know nothing of it. Can I use just a standard simple needle valve like the ones for ice makers? Do I just use the soft copper for the supply line?

I can't wait to see the temp boost when injecting the steam.
 
Hi there GM,
I didn't even know this thread existed until you posted the link.
I'm definately interested as you know. The coils are definately a thing of beauty. I don't know how long the lustre will last inside the combustion chamber though :(
Not that you will ever see it anyway I guess.

Yeah, those welds look "functional" that's for sure. I have no welding experience so I can hardly knock the effort!! In hindsight, do you still think it's the way to go? Where would a clueless guy like me find an outfit capable of copper welding?

Cheers and keep the pics and commentary comming!
 
Hi there GM,
I didn't even know this thread existed until you posted the link.
I'm definately interested as you know. The coils are definately a thing of beauty. I don't know how long the lustre will last inside the combustion chamber though :(
Not that you will ever see it anyway I guess.

Yeah, those welds look "functional" that's for sure. I have no welding experience so I can hardly knock the effort!! In hindsight, do you still think it's the way to go? Where would a clueless guy like me find an outfit capable of copper welding?

Cheers and keep the pics and commentary comming!

Hey Farside.

I knew the boiler wouldn't look nice for long. I didn't even paint the chimney, it came that way. I am very happy thus far and I can hardly wait to get it plumbed in and mixing with something usefull.:D

I don't think I would recomend welding the copper to just anybody. I am not trying to say anything about me or anyone else for that matter. It is just so hard to keep it clean. I did that in a chamber. You think welding is expensive.....ask a weldor to work in a chamber. It isn't like brazing where the scale will get burned off and stay out of the puddle. When welding the scale will blend right in and cause you some headach. I also wanted the lower section welded as I was just unsure of how any of that would fair under the heat. I have no real experience with steam systems. After today I would say silver brazing is the way to go. The bottom of the boiler looks like standard copper pipe that has been around a while. A little farther up is a different story. If I ever build another one for my self or someone else, I will silver braze the joints. No question. I did and I would recomend purging the boiler so the heat from the brazing does'nt create scale on the inside of the boiler.

I say silver braze because of the ability to take 300 degrees constantly and 400 degrees intermittently. I must thank Swagman for the suggestion. It fills the gaps VERY nicely. I did the brazing with a oxy-acetylene torch. When doing the joint where all the tubes come together use about a #3 welding tip. All that copper will suck the life out of the joint. I found this out the hard way.:)

This is probly way more then you wanted. Sorry. Any more questions please feel free to ask. PM's are open too.

Prost.:mug:
 
You can't give out too much info! That's great advice. Soldered compression fittings sound like a good idea too... any opinions on that?

I'm going to have to go to brazing school! My skills are in electronics and computer software darn it!!
 
You can't give out too much info! That's great advice. Soldered compression fittings sound like a good idea too... any opinions on that?

I'm going to have to go to brazing school! My skills are in electronics and computer software darn it!!



Well when you sign up, sign me up also. I am not the best at brazing. The only thing I can relate it to is all the soldering of wires I did when I did car electronics. not the same as boards, but the flowing of low temp solder is similar. You just need more heat for the silver braze. IIRC the Silvaloy 15 I used melts at 1300 ish degrees.

I have a hard time with the use of a compression fitting only to solder it. That's why I drilled my tube into the 1/2" pipe. I believe I could have done a better job at it. The compression fittings would be a "clean" way to get things together, so I can see thier use. I just can't justifiy the extra cost to get the same place on a piece you wont see. I am not trying to impune FSR402's work in any way. I was hoping he would have told me that the compression fittings he used were working out great. If he had, I would not have silver brazed the elbows on the top side of my boiler, and I would probly already have the copper unions installed. I don't think anybody has tried the brass compression fittings straight up yet? Yours could be the first for brass compression fittings under fire, so to speak.

Not sure if you have seen Kladue's phase 2 build yet. Here is the link. Great stuff in there too. If automation is you thing, I get lost reading about his programing.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/phase-2-brewery-build-progress-shots-70821/
 
GreenMonti, let me look on the leftover shelf in the warehouse monday and see if I can find you something suitable for water flow measurement and maybe a needle valve for gas flow control. A standard brass needle valve will work but you will have to pay attention to packing tightness when using one with LP gas.
 
GreenMonti, let me look on the leftover shelf in the warehouse monday and see if I can find you something suitable for water flow measurement and maybe a needle valve for gas flow control. A standard brass needle valve will work but you will have to pay attention to packing tightness when using one with LP gas.


Kladue,

:DI am at a loss here. PM sent.
 
Well when you sign up, sign me up also..
...I have a hard time with the use of a compression fitting...
Not sure if you have seen Kladue's phase 2 build yet. Here is the link. Great stuff in there too. If automation is you thing, I get lost reading about his programing.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/phase-2-brewery-build-progress-shots-70821/

Amazing project. I just checked it out. I think I'll keep mine manual though. There is a certain art to brewing that I want to preserve as its one of the reasons why I started brewing in the first place.

That wort cooler project had great ideas for joining tubing too and I think I'll follow that approach.
 
I have the manual control version of the Phase 2 system, just most of the controls and plumbing are consolidated on detachable components of the brew stand. About 20 minutes to go from hanging on garage wall to light off for brewing. You assemble base, install central support pipe, position modules on stand, reconnect water, gas, and wort hoses, plug in power cord and reconnect pumps, connect water hose, oxygen cylinder, and propane tank. With the additional modules I have you can sequential brew or decotion brew as desired with a second burner assembly and a platform for a mash tun.
 
GreenMonti, looks like we are in luck, there are a couple types on the shelf with ranges that would be usefull, some new and some used for cooling water applications. I am still digging for suitable needle valves, have one but am not sure of flow range suitability for fine tuning the gas flow to burner, looking for panel mount versions with tube ends or fittings.
 
GreenMonti, looks like we are in luck, there are a couple types on the shelf with ranges that would be usefull, some new and some used for cooling water applications. I am still digging for suitable needle valves, have one but am not sure of flow range suitability for fine tuning the gas flow to burner, looking for panel mount versions with tube ends or fittings.


That sounds great Kladue. Thank you.:mug:



Here is a shot of the bottom of the boiler after the test run. There is some scale on the copper a little farther up. I suspect that came from the time it was putting out the 400+ degree steam. I looked on the inside of the pipe and it still looks like new copper inside. I think the copper should hold up just fine. Oh, I never mentioned that there never was a single leak. It does sweat after the burner is shut down.
P1010085.jpg
 
I now have the steam difuser done. This will go in a T fitting and allow me to heat the mash while recirculating. My strike and sparge water will also flow out of it. Just gotta buy some fittings and get it plumbed into something.

This was a little tricky to weld. As you see I polished the welds and the tube.

It is 1/4" SS tube with SS mesh. I welded the mesh closed on the one end and welded the screen to the tube.
P1010093-1.jpg


A closer shot. You can't see through the screen but, there is a little bit of tube up inside the screen. I have about 7/8" of usable screen.
P1010092.jpg
 
That looks better than my efforts with silver solder, next up you need to get the tube installed in a tee with the flow across the screen, not along the screen. I tried both ways and flow across was quiet and flow along the screen got rather noisy at high steam output levels, larger steam bubbles formed and collapsed noisily. What tubing size are you planning for the wort plumbing from MT false bottom to the mixer and then back to the sparge distributor.
 
That looks better than my efforts with silver solder, next up you need to get the tube installed in a tee with the flow across the screen, not along the screen. I tried both ways and flow across was quiet and flow along the screen got rather noisy at high steam output levels, larger steam bubbles formed and collapsed noisily. What tubing size are you planning for the wort plumbing from MT false bottom to the mixer and then back to the sparge distributor.


Thanks Kladue.

I was hoping to keep it simple and run 1/2" fittings every where. If I have to I can reduce it down for the compression fitting to hold the diffuser. I am planning on having the T fitting positioned so it looks like the letter T. I will have the steam enter on the right and fluid enter on the bottom with the discharge on the left. I should be able to "tune" the diffuser by pushing it in more or less to get it in the most turbulant flow. I asume, directly above the input will give the best results.
 

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