Element Grounding

Would the element/brew pot be sufficiently grounded if I epoxied my ground wire to the spot show in the picture below? I think it would be but I'd like additional opinions. Thanks.

i don't know how conductive your epoxy is. i would recommend soldering or welding it on there.

The wire just has to be in contact with the actual metal. Looks like you to need to grind off some paint first.

Gluing on a ground does not seem like good practice to me...you really want a mechanical connection. You can drill a hole and put a ground screw at the location shown, or even wrapping the ground wire around the lug prior to installing would be far better than glue.

Rather than a plastic box...you could use a metal one and ground to that, assuming you have ground b/w the box and element.

Since your element is connected to your kettle, why not ground the kettle?

The Pol said:

Since your element is connected to your kettle, why not ground the kettle?

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Well, I was trying to avoid drilling another hole in my kettle but that does seem like the best idea aside from drilling and tapping a hole for a ground screw in my element. Grounding to the kettle would be much cheaper for me.

Good quality SS hose clamp with bolt & nut through the band. Then tighten that around the element hex thingy. Works well on my RIMS element.

I drilled and tapped a 4-40 screw into one of faces of the flange bolt right where your arrow points. I took the ground wire and soldered a tab to it that i could screw in.

Easy and looks great.

Dan

Add a washer flush to the top surface of the nut with a quick Mig weld then thru bolt with a 10-32 or 10-24 screw. Use a crimped lug and ground wire. The elements grounded directly to itself vs relying on the element contact to the kettle plus a hole in the kettle to ground.

I thought the element contacted the kettle via the water if not metal to metal.

Even at metal to metal contact be it similar or dissimilar metals each and all create resistance at the contact point. To reduce these added resistance connections element to kettle then kettle to crimp fitting to ground wire was the suggestion to ground the element directly. Less connection points to fail. I don't recall reading that your an electrician from your postings.

BrewBeemer said:

Even at metal to metal contact be it similar or dissimilar metals each and all create resistance at the contact point. To reduce these added resistance connections element to kettle then kettle to crimp fitting to ground wire was the suggestion to ground the element directly. Less connection points to fail. I don't recall reading that your an electrician from your postings.

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That makes two of us

BrewBeemer said:

Add a washer flush to the top surface of the nut with a quick Mig weld then thru bolt with a 10-32 or 10-24 screw. Use a crimped lug and ground wire. The elements grounded directly to itself vs relying on the element contact to the kettle plus a hole in the kettle to ground.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the idea but I don't have access to a MIG welder or any welder within hours from where I live for that matter and I'm not about to pay someone. I think I may drill a whole the size of 10awg wire in one of the hex nut sides and use solder/epoxy to hold a bare copper wire lead that I can tie into.

Don't you want the kettle grounded more then the element? I mean if the kettle goes hot you want it going to ground, especially if you're holding the kettle. I too am not an electrician.

Should the element fail and go to ground it will go hot to the elements outer shield that's welded to the base first then travel to the kettle. Stop it at the most direct source which is the elements base. Early retired wireman here due to a back injury so i'm out of the game only a 29 year IBEW member.

Huizer said:

I drilled and tapped a 4-40 screw into one of faces of the flange bolt right where your arrow points. I took the ground wire and soldered a tab to it that i could screw in.

Easy and looks great.

Dan

Click to expand...

I've done the same thing a couple times.

Here's a bad picture. You can kind of see the head of the brass machine screw.

BrewBeemer said:

Should the element fail and go to ground it will go hot to the elements outer shield that's welded to the base first then travel to the kettle. Stop it at the most direct source which is the elements base. Early retired wireman here due to a back injury so i'm out of the game only a 29 year IBEW member.

Click to expand...

How would one wire that?

Like whats been posted before, drill and tap a small threaded screw hole then screw a crimped on eye connector to the element. For a quick fix I would of placed a washer on the surface away from the sealing surface and welded a washer on that hangs past the side of the nut with a quick tack by the Mig welder. A 1/2 second job with no heat damage to the element. Add a short screw lock washer and nut.

If you look at home depot or lowes you can get a reducing washer. They are cheap. Like 2 bucks for three of them.

It will be in the electrical isle with all the metal box connectors. I went with a 1.5" to 1". It gave me plenty of room around the edge to drill a hole and connect the ground to a screw. Put the washer between the element and your kettle. This will then touch your kettle and your element effectively grounding both.

If I remember, I will get a picture of mine tonight.

Brewmoor said:

If you look at home depot or lowes you can get a reducing washer. They are cheap. Like 2 bucks for three of them.

It will be in the electrical isle with all the metal box connectors. I went with a 1.5" to 1". It gave me plenty of room around the edge to drill a hole and connect the ground to a screw. Put the washer between the element and your kettle. This will then touch your kettle and your element effectively grounding both.

If I remember, I will get a picture of mine tonight.

Click to expand...

A picture would be great, thanks.

BrewBeemer said:

Like whats been posted before, drill and tap a small threaded screw hole then screw a crimped on eye connector to the element. For a quick fix I would of placed a washer on the surface away from the sealing surface and welded a washer on that hangs past the side of the nut with a quick tack by the Mig welder. A 1/2 second job with no heat damage to the element. Add a short screw lock washer and nut.

Click to expand...

The element is already grounded to the kettle in the event that it is screwed into a fitting welded into the kettle.
My ground comes from the panel and is screwed into the kettle.

Or are we talking about two different things here?

Coming from all different ideas with the same final results.
I myself prefer direct grounding preventing any resistance
caused by dissimilar metals in contact with each other plus any
galvanized plating corrosion when dealing with pH liquids that are encountered with a brewing process. Stop it before it has a chance to happen. Even use T&B Kopper Coat a conductive anti seize compound.
This alone on automotive connections with battery leads to the
relay, block and started, each connection will read 0.3 ohms each joint.
With T&B's conductive compound readings are 0.1 ohms a joint. This adds
up with many connections in a high current starter circuit.
We used it around "Turd Farms" all the time.

zGrubermeister said:

A picture would be great, thanks.

Click to expand...

Here are some pictures of the reducing washer. Also an after picture of it on my HLT. My jbweld job is not the best. My garage is pretty cold so it took forever to dry. It dripped and ran everywhere. On my BK I just drilled a hole on my bottom rim and screw it to the kettle. Did not have the option with a corny keg.

Ah, that looks like a very good solution. Maybe I'll use some conductive compound between the washer and the element nut to ensure conductivity but that looks perfect.

J&B Weld is an insulator ...

I seek clarification, thus I am digging up this old thread.

My electric kettle worked fine for about six months, but recently has started to zap me via the water. :\ Not a good thing. Although, I did just make an "electric stout" to celebrate.

I am not at all certain why my ground is no longer working.

My setup was a metal 2G box, ground screwed directly to it (grounding screw on box), heater element through that and pan. From what I have read, it appears I should attach the ground directly to the metal flange (nut/whatever) on the heater element. I could do by roughing it and a drop of solder, or by punching a hole and putting a grounding screw into its outside edge.

I have to admit, I have had a hard time following the other descriptions here. Thus, I ask, what would be my best bet for grounding this to stop the electric stout from being brewed again?

Thanks!

i too would like to know the best way to ground the element, seems there are conflicting view on the matter

I don't think there is a "Best" way. Just make sure the ground is connected to something that is touching the fluid inside of the kettle. You do not want your ground to get isolated.

If you can, connect it directly to the skirt on your keg. If you are not using a keg then I feel like the large washer design I used on mine is best. It keeps solid contact with the element base and the kettle.

For what it's worth, here's how I did mine:

Klyph: That rocks, thank you for the pictures.

If I understand heater elements correctly, it is better to ground the element, which puts the electricity that bleeds off to ground immediately, rather than to ground the water. If you ground the water, it means the electricity has to travel through several steps, before being diverted.

At least, that is the impression I've gained from reading around and looking at the way the heating elements work. The metal edge actually comes flush with a metal ground on a normal water heater, which is how the water is kept grounded. Otherwise you would be risking sending electricity through the house.

Or, I could be totally wrong on all those. I'm not an electrician, which is why I am sharing what I understand and looking for correction or augmentation.

Thanks!

A note about soldering on the element. It requires a LOT of heat, as the heat dissipates through the whole element. The only way I found to get enough heat into it was to use a propane torch. I wasn't as careful with the element in the picture, and I melted the plastic way more than I should have. Subsequent tries turned out much cleaner, but soldering these can be tricky.

Okay, I pulled out my Ohmeter and took a few readings on my pot.

Across the wire, from end of the ground to the ground itself: 0.5Ω.
From end of wire to pot: 1.5Ω.
From end of wire to skirt on element: 0.6Ω.
From ground to positive lead: 13MΩ.
From ground to negative lead: 13MΩ.
From ground to neutral: 0Ω. (which is correct, since the neutral is not connected to anything).

Other than the fact that the 13MΩ implies the circuit to the leads is being completed, which isn't ideal when there is no water in it :\ (I think)... it seems I am within reasonable tolerances for resistance across the various boundaries. This should mean that the inside of my pan is being grounded effectively.

One thing that interests me is that the inside edge of my heating element has oxidized and rusted. This implies it should either be coated with something in general or at least when not in use - any recommendations?

Also, since I am getting current from ground to lead, without water in it, doe sthis mean I may have a bad element?

Any idea what is going on here?

I will check the remainder of my extension chord later, to make sure it is properly grounded and the reason I was experiencing a shock wasn't due to lacking a ground elsewhere... but, from what I can tell on testing, it appears my unit is grounded sufficiently.

Some people put silicon over the inside edge of their elements to keep the rust off. I am not averse to the trivial amount of minerals it may add to the brew.