120v

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

RockfordWhite

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
473
Reaction score
11
So i do not have access to a 240V outlet, so I was wondering if you think it would be ok for a Electric Brew Kettle if I used two 120 V heating elements (mind you this is for 10 gallons). The way i figure is i wire them each to separate switches and turn one of them off when the hard boil beings to prevent scorching.

I figure in the HLT 1 120V element should be ok. Does this seem reasonable?
 
You'll need to run those on separate circuits, and depending on your kettle geometry, you can run the full wattage during boil.

I boil 5 gal with 1x3000W element in my kettle for a rolling, but not vigorous boil.

Say you find 1500W@120V elements (I think you can run a 3000W@240V element at 120V, but I'm sure someone else will pipe in and tell you why I'm wrong). Note (edit): 3000W@240V is actually 1500W@120V (same element).

1500W@120V is 12.5A. Most household circuits are 15A, so you'll need two circuits to run a pair of 1500W elements.

S
 
scoates said:
You'll need to run those on separate circuits, and depending on your kettle geometry, you can run the full wattage during boil.

I boil 5 gal with 1x3000W element in my kettle for a rolling, but not vigorous boil.

Say you find 1500W@120V elements (I think you can run a 3000W@240V element at 120V, but I'm sure someone else will pipe in and tell you why I'm wrong). Note (edit): 3000W@240V is actually 1500W@120V (same element).

1500W@120V is 12.5A. Most household circuits are 15A, so you'll need two circuits to run a pair of 1500W elements.

S


I am not positive, but for some reason I think your get 1/4 of the watts when you 1/2 the volts. So a 3000W 220V becomes a 750W 120V
 
scoates said:
You'll need to run those on separate circuits, and depending on your kettle geometry, you can run the full wattage during boil.

I boil 5 gal with 1x3000W element in my kettle for a rolling, but not vigorous boil.

Say you find 1500W@120V elements (I think you can run a 3000W@240V element at 120V, but I'm sure someone else will pipe in and tell you why I'm wrong). Note (edit): 3000W@240V is actually 1500W@120V (same element).

1500W@120V is 12.5A. Most household circuits are 15A, so you'll need two circuits to run a pair of 1500W elements.

S
Scoates, if you have a 3000w Element @240v it will be less than 1500w at 120v. It's an Ohms law thing, but that does not mean you can't get a 1500w element @ 120v. S.
 
slnies said:
1920w is the max on a twenty amp circuit. This is because heating elements are continueos loads. So the circuit must be derated to 80% of the maximum. The reason is that running full bore causes excesive heat in the breaker and the wire, eventualy causing tripping and other bad JUJU.


Such as living in the Best Western down the road while the inspectors figure out whose fault the house fire was.
 
You'll rarely find a 20 amp circuit regardless. They are usually only found where a floor buffer is used and have the horizontal plug in addition to the verticals . If your hoping to do long term brewing, it'd be easier to install, either yourself or by an electrician, an extra circuit for brewing purposes.

That way you avoid a fire risk and don't have a circuit trip in the middle of brewing....especially if the lights are on the same circuit.
 
Oops. You guys are right. I forgot about the "squared" part (-:

3000W@240v = 19.2Ω == 750W@120v

S
 
My seat of the pants engineering and experience tells me you will need at least two elements at 2000W each for ten gallons. You might need to insulate the kettle as well. GFI's on two 20A circuits!

Good luck.
Mike
 
ClutchDude said:
You'll rarely find a 20 amp circuit regardless. They are usually only found where a floor buffer is used and have the horizontal plug in addition to the verticals . If your hoping to do long term brewing, it'd be easier to install, either yourself or by an electrician, an extra circuit for brewing purposes.

That way you avoid a fire risk and don't have a circuit trip in the middle of brewing....especially if the lights are on the same circuit.
If have moved into a home in the past ten years, most banks and or mortgage companies require updating of the electrical, if you live in a home that was built in the late 80's to the present you have at least two 20 amp circuits, and after 1996 you have at least two just in the kitchen, one in the bathroom and one in the laundry. Apartments have to abide by the same rules, and there you have it. Now, i understand that there are a few homes that fall through the cracks, apartments too for that matter, so you do have o take a trip to the panel and look, if not, maybe it is time to invest in a couple 20 amp circuits, or move to a different apartment. I promise you won't regret it. Everyone likes more power. S.
 
wilserbrewer said:
My seat of the pants engineering and experience tells me you will need at least two elements at 2000W each for ten gallons. You might need to insulate the kettle as well. GFI's on two 20A circuits!

Good luck.
Mike
Another good idea if you have an electric dryer. One 4500w element @ 240v. This requires a thirty amp circuit, and electric dryers are wired for 30 amps. In fact you could have as much as 5,760w worth of elements in any combination and still be in the 80 percentile range on a thirty amp circuit.
 
(slightly OT) That explains it. Just about every house I've looked was built before '96. I've always just thought that contractors wanted to skimp and buy 16 awg wire to avoid having to buy more than a single wire type for general use.
Good to know for next time!
 
ClutchDude said:
You'll rarely find a 20 amp circuit regardless. They are usually only found where a floor buffer is used and have the horizontal plug in addition to the verticals . If your hoping to do long term brewing, it'd be easier to install, either yourself or by an electrician, an extra circuit for brewing purposes.

That way you avoid a fire risk and don't have a circuit trip in the middle of brewing....especially if the lights are on the same circuit.


NEC requires 20 amp circuits in bathrooms, basements, garages, Outdoor receptacles, and two separate 20-amp circuits in kitchens. It's actuall the 15-amp circuits that are getting harder to find.......
 
Bernie Brewer said:
NEC requires 20 amp circuits in bathrooms, basements, garages, Outdoor receptacles, and two separate 20-amp circuits in kitchens. It's actuall the 15-amp circuits that are getting harder to find.......

Don't forget 20 amp GFI protected on all outdoor receptacles if up to code.
Running a 240 volt element on 120 is as useful as driving 80 mph at night with a flashlight as a headlight. All the houses I wired back in 77 had lighting on 15 amp, all plugs on 20 amp. Your maxed out at 1,440 watts on a 15 amp circuit, 1,920 watts 20 amp. Think about this, when heating with propane the burners used range on average from 50,000 BTU to 170,000 BTU's. With electric at 1,920 watts for a 16 amp on a 20 amp circuit at 80% maximum allowed your dealing with 5,553 BTU of heat provided a 120 volt element was used. Why would such a high BTU rating be used with propane vs low for electric heating? Thru the High Gravity forum, http://www.highgravitybrew.com they have a 10 gallon capacity boil pot heated with a 3,500 watt element or 11,946 BTU's, this I question when other heating means are a lot higher in BTU's.
 
BrewBeemer said:
Don't forget 20 amp GFI protected on all outdoor receptacles if up to code.

I didn't forget, I was just lazy and didn't feel like typing that part.;)
Actually, all of the circuits I mentioned must be GFCI- protected, not just the outdoor ones.........
 
Try working on an old 1905 house that had gas lighting at one time.
When electrified lights were always hot they switched the neutral, plugs
installed in baseboards without boxes. What a mess to bring up to code.

From what I have read my thinking to get fast heating on a 10 plus gallon
batch would require 6-10,000 watts of 240 volt power for the boil. This is the direction I am heading in design.
 
BrewBeemer said:
Try working on an old 1905 house that had gas lighting at one time.
When electrified lights were always hot they switched the neutral, plugs
installed in baseboards without boxes. What a mess to bring up to code.

From what I have read my thinking to get fast heating on a 10 plus gallon
batch would require 6-10,000 watts of 240 volt power for the boil. This is the direction I am heading in design.


60Kw may be a bit overkill, but if you insist I hope you have a minimum of a 300A service.....
 
BrewBeemer said:
Try working on an old 1905 house that had gas lighting at one time.
When electrified lights were always hot they switched the neutral, plugs
installed in baseboards without boxes. What a mess to bring up to code.

From what I have read my thinking to get fast heating on a 10 plus gallon
batch would require 6-10,000 watts of 240 volt power for the boil. This is the direction I am heading in design.


Luckily the company I work for doesn't do resi. But I have found lots of switched neutrals in my own house..............
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Luckily the company I work for doesn't do resi. But I have found lots of switched neutrals in my own house..............


They rank right up there with floating neutrals when somebody doesn't ground a transformer properly....:cross:

You hate to find them the hard way...LOL
 
wihophead said:
60Kw may be a bit overkill, but if you insist I hope you have a minimum of a 300A service.....

Reread there bro, I stated 6-10,000 watts not "60Kw". That would take a large service.

Commercial industrial here, residential sucks besides it's a can of fire trap worms homeowners create.

On a floating neutral it's easy to locate the problem, just look for the fixtures with tar smoke and stink billowing out of them. Ran across that once and was the poor SOB to replace ballasts and correct the problem. A service call to repair nonunion work by quality union work.
I had another thread asking about electric heating, best way is to try a setup with different wattage elements and record time vs temps. A spin the meter time.
 
wihophead said:
They rank right up there with floating neutrals when somebody doesn't ground a transformer properly....:cross:

You hate to find them the hard way...LOL


Oopsie, I did that to someone when I apprenticed. I didn't know to bond the neutral, and nobody checked my work. A journeyman got hit with a hot green........
Oops.....:eek:
 
BrewBeemer said:
Reread there bro, I stated 6-10,000 watts not "60Kw". That would take a large service.

Commercial industrial here, residential sucks besides it's a can of fire trap worms homeowners create.

On a floating neutral it's easy to locate the problem, just look for the fixtures with tar smoke and stink billowing out of them. Ran across that once and was the poor SOB to replace ballasts and correct the problem. A service call to repair nonunion work by quality union work.
I had another thread asking about electric heating, best way is to try a setup with different wattage elements and record time vs temps. A spin the meter time.


I thought I read 6 10,000W elements, thats why I said you would need a minimum of a 300A service.....sorry

The problem you described would be an open neutral on a 3 wire network, you basically just created a series 240V circuit. It can get really bad when the neutral fails on the outside of the house, you can kiss your electronics goodbye...;)
What I was referring to was when the neutral isn't bonded to ground in a transformer so you get a voltage potential between the neutral and ground.
Wakes you up when you grab the neutral and get knocked on your ass...LOL
 
Back
Top