More Belgian Yeast Character

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jtp137

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Been brewing for a little over a year and this is my first post. I love making Belgian ales. I made a triple with westmalle yeast and a quad with Chimmay yeast. Both where good beers everyone loved them and they didn’t last long. The only thing that I think was missing was that terrific Belgian yeast character. The beers where too clean. I want more yeast flavor, so when I made a Belgian X-mass In September I under pitched the yeast and ley fermentation get into the 80’s. I kegged the beer in the beginning of November and this beer has no yeast character as well. I also made another triple recently I under pitched and sitting in primary for a week and a half. Does this beer need Months in the primary to develop the classic yeast flavor or does it need to sit in the keg or bottle for longer than a month?
 
Under pitching will actually reduce esters. The same enzyme, acetyl co-A, is used for both yeast growth and ester production. It it does one, it doesn't do much of the other. By underpitching, you were ensuring that the enzyme would be busy with cell growth and not doing much in the way of ester production.
 
The Belgian beers that I've done have always tasted at least a little thin and boring until a month or more in the bottle. I don't know if it would work the same in a keg situation.
 
I have not gotten the same results from merely leaving it in primary, which I've done for up to about two months total. It just doesn't taste like I want it to until it's been in the bottle and carbonated for at least 4-6 weeks.
 
If your adding any simple sugar( candy sugar or corn sugar) to the Belgians try doing it after fermentation is almost complete. It will then go another round of fermentation for another day or so. Keep it very warm during this second fermentation. Then cold crash as soon as the new sugar has fermented out. I think this keeps the yeast from cleaning up too much. This has at least for me kicked up the Belgian flavor a notch.
 
jtp137 said:
Been brewing for a little over a year and this is my first post. I love making Belgian ales. I made a triple with westmalle yeast and a quad with Chimmay yeast. Both where good beers everyone loved them and they didn’t last long. The only thing that I think was missing was that terrific Belgian yeast character. The beers where too clean. I want more yeast flavor, so when I made a Belgian X-mass In September I under pitched the yeast and ley fermentation get into the 80’s. I kegged the beer in the beginning of November and this beer has no yeast character as well. I also made another triple recently I under pitched and sitting in primary for a week and a half. Does this beer need Months in the primary to develop the classic yeast flavor or does it need to sit in the keg or bottle for longer than a month?
Click to expand...

Try a different strain. I can't sort them out on the wyeast side, but white labs has wlp500, 510 530 540 550. Then there is the East Coast Yeast Abbey strain.

Read Brew Like a Monk to understand how the canonical examples are made. It will surprise you. For instance, Westmalle ferments at 64, then slowly increases temp to 68f over 6 days. Then bottled and cold conditioned for a month at 46f.

If there's one thing I take away from the book, don't over think it.
 
Do you think i would get better results if i only fill the caboys up half way. In other words split the 5 gallon bach into 2 6 gallon carboys?
 
jtp137 said:
Do you think i would get better results if i only fill the caboys up half way. In other words split the 5 gallon bach into 2 6 gallon carboys?
Click to expand...

check out the jamil show episodes on thebrewingnetwork.com. Lots of solid advice.

There's a belgian golden strong (duvel), tripel (westmalle), dubbel, belgian blonde ale (leffe), belgian pale ale, and Belgian specialty (orval) entry.

You have to look in the 2007-2008 range. The recipes are from Brewing Classic Styles, but also some great commentary on brewing them. I found it very informative.
 
corwin3083 said:
I have not gotten the same results from merely leaving it in primary, which I've done for up to about two months total. It just doesn't taste like I want it to until it's been in the bottle and carbonated for at least 4-6 weeks.
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Does it start picking up more yeast flavor as it ages carbonated? Should i let it sit for 3 months after carbonation?
 
I don't think you're waiting long enough. High gravity belgians reward those who wait. Anthing over 1.060 should have plenty of belgian character using 3787 Westmalle yeast. I pitch at 62, hold at 64 for 2 days, and then ramp up to 70 over the next 6 days for my belgians. And pitch proper amounts of yeast/aerate at pitch. Plenty of belgian character, but it may not show up until 3-6 months in the bottle. The tastes really keep evolving as it sits in the bottle. After 18 months, my first batch is heavenly. Only 6 left however.

Best advice is to get a pipeline going for Belgians. The first year sucks as you have nothing to drink. But then you just need to keep brewing at an equal rate of consumption after that.
 
Sounds like a good plan. I noticed from BLAM it seems like a lot of breweries filter before they carbonate and pitch fresh yeast. If you would filter and not put in fresh yeast would it strip the yeast flavor using a 5 or 1 micron filter. Does any body filter belgians?
 
I haven't read the book, but I should pick it up. I'm wondering why they would do this, unless they are trying to protect a proprietary yeast strain from competitors.

Not very many homebrewers filter yeast. No reason to either, as a lot of it drops out after transferring to secondary. I usually primary for 4 weeks and secondary for 2-3 months. Still enough viable yeast to carbonate.

Reminds me to follow my own advice and get another Belgian into the pipeline this spring. Thinking either a Duvel clone (belgian strong) or a Dark Belgian Strong.
 
solbes said:
I haven't read the book, but I should pick it up. I'm wondering why they would do this, unless they are trying to protect a proprietary yeast strain from competitors.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, they do this to get a consistent carbonation. They remove the old yeast so they know how much yeast they have before bottling, i.e. virtually none. Then they add their priming solution and a set amount of yeast, and they get consistent results.
 
solbes said:
I haven't read the book, but I should pick it up. I'm wondering why they would do this, unless they are trying to protect a proprietary yeast strain from competitors.

Not very many homebrewers filter yeast. No reason to either, as a lot of it drops out after transferring to secondary. I usually primary for 4 weeks and secondary for 2-3 months. Still enough viable yeast to carbonate.

Reminds me to follow my own advice and get another Belgian into the pipeline this spring. Thinking either a Duvel clone (belgian strong) or a Dark Belgian Strong.
Click to expand...

would filtering strip the yeast flavor?
 
solbes said:
I haven't read the book, but I should pick it up. I'm wondering why they would do this, unless they are trying to protect a proprietary yeast strain from competitors.

Not very many homebrewers filter yeast. No reason to either, as a lot of it drops out after transferring to secondary. I usually primary for 4 weeks and secondary for 2-3 months. Still enough viable yeast to carbonate.

Reminds me to follow my own advice and get another Belgian into the pipeline this spring. Thinking either a Duvel clone (belgian strong) or a Dark Belgian Strong.
Click to expand...

Consistency. You remove an uncertain quantity of yeast in unknown health and replace it with a known quantity of healthy yeast. This creates a more consistent product since it is reproduceable.
 
highgravitybacon said:
Consistency. You remove an uncertain quantity of yeast in unknown health and replace it with a known quantity of healthy yeast. This creates a more consistent product since it is reproduceable.
Click to expand...

I would assume that the filtering of the old primary yeast does not remove the yeast character. That the yeast character in these beers is not created from the dosing of the yeast at bottling it is created during primary fermentation. Is this a correct statement?
 
most belgian strains don't flocculate very well, so filtering is sometimes done for clarity. the secondary yeast, added for carbonation, is typically a highly flocculant strain like a lager yeast.

result: instead of having lots of belgian yeast in suspension, you have a little lager yeast that sinks to the bottom.
 
:off:
solbes said:
I don't think you're waiting long enough. High gravity belgians reward those who wait. Anthing over 1.060 should have plenty of belgian character using 3787 Westmalle yeast. I pitch at 62, hold at 64 for 2 days, and then ramp up to 70 over the next 6 days for my belgians. And pitch proper amounts of yeast/aerate at pitch. Plenty of belgian character, but it may not show up until 3-6 months in the bottle. The tastes really keep evolving as it sits in the bottle. After 18 months, my first batch is heavenly. Only 6 left however.

Best advice is to get a pipeline going for Belgians. The first year sucks as you have nothing to drink. But then you just need to keep brewing at an equal rate of consumption after that.
Click to expand...


Good post. Most brews can be drunk as soon as they are carbonated. Belgians are drinkable young but truely develop their true flavor with time in the bottles. It can take months for the flavors to really kick in. I have a good pipeline of Belgians that continue to change with age. It seems about 4 months is the points where they really begin to shine.

Set some aside for at least 3 months and taste them again.
 
jtp137 said:
I would assume that the filtering of the old primary yeast does not remove the yeast character. That the yeast character in these beers is not created from the dosing of the yeast at bottling it is created during primary fermentation. Is this a correct statement?
Click to expand...

They don't always filter. Some places filter, some centrifuge, some cold crash, some use clarifying agents. I don't know enough of the various outcomes to tell you what happens with each, but each option has some degree of negative outcomes to the final product.

The yeast character is primarily a result of initial fermentation. The bottle conditioning can be done for, a. tradition, b. carbonation, c. character and flavor development, d. as a sales pitch, e. shelf life / product stability, f. some or all of the above.
 
I usually place my belgians in the fridge for a couple of weeks before I consume them anyway. So there is little to no yeast left in suspension. Those that have sat for 9-12 months are crystal clear anyway.
 

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