Late extract addition

I know this has been talked about but I still have questions. I am going to be brewing a blonde ale tomorrow and I dont want it to get to dark.

The kit calls for 3.3# (1 can) Extra Light Liquid Malt Extract and 2# Extra Light Dried Malt Extract with 11oz of specialty grains. Hops are .25oz. Northern Brewer and .25 Cascade.

Now how can I make this beer as light(color) as possible without sacrificing flavor? Can I add the DME at the beginning of the boil with double the bittering hops (try to adjust for hop utilization). Then add the LME with 15 min left with the correct amount or flavor/aroma hops?

Or am I just paranoid and everything will be fine just adding all the extract at the same time? This is only my second brew so I am trying to improve.

Doing a late extract won't sacrifice any flavor - some would say that it will make a better tasting beer. Not to disappoint you too much, but don't expect to be able to make a straw-yellow beer. You'll be able to make the beer lighter with late addition, but only a little bit. LME tends to have more color effect than DME. Also, I would try to get a calculator to tell you how to adjust your hops. Later additions of malt extract means you should reduce your hops to maintain IBU and your 2x estimate might be a little too rough. And you should only adjust your bittering hops. Keep the aroma hops the same.

I knew I had something backwards. So if I add the LME late then the beer is going to be more bitter. Do you know where you can find said calculator?

Joedub said:

I knew I had something backwards. So if I add the LME late then the beer is going to be more bitter. Do you know where you can find said calculator?

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Correct. I do not know of a free calculator online that is capable of calculating late extract hops utilization. You could download a trial copy of Beer Smith which I know will do it.

I have just done a couple of brews but I find it easier to ad the DME at the beginning and thenad the LME at the end. It is just easier to get it back to a boil since adding DME takes a lot of time to mix in.

I also think that LME gets darker faster so adding it at the end will make a lighter brew.

YMMV

I was pretty sure I had to add the DME at the beginning just because it hasn't been boiled like the LME has.

I think the common reason DME is added at the beginning is that it is less of a problem with darkening. The other main reason for doing late extract addition is to help avoid some Maillard reactions that can lead to "extract twang". Maybe LME is more prone to this too (darkening= Maillard reactions?). It should not take any more than 15 minutes to Pasteurize either type of extract. But I would comment that all recipes I've seen with DME and LME that do a late extract do put the DME in a the beginning of the boil.

What volume are you making and what volume are you boiling?

Also, when are your hop additions?

Looking at your recipe I would steep the specialty grains. Then I would probably add 1# DME for the beginning of the boil. I usually add the rest of the extract at flameout. I don't have a wort chillar so I figure it spends enough time to be pasteurized.

As for the hops, I wouldn't worry about changing it. Some people say reduce by 10%, but that is debatable. At .25 oz a 10% reduction is not very much.

I did the boil this morning 2 gallon boil. I added the 2# DME and a little less then half a can of LME at the beginning. At flame out I added the rest of the LME.

If I was to step up the boil to say 4 gallons would I need to adjust the recipe at all? I am trying to slowly transition to full boil extract then partial mash and eventually all grain but I am trying to take baby steps.

I was thinking of steeping grains in like 3 gallons next time and have a gallon of "sparge" water around 153F on another burner and batch sparge the specialty grain while they are in a strainer over the kettle. Then bringing the 4 gallons to a boil.

Couldn't you sub corn sugar for extract to lighten?

There are a lot of free calculators that you can use to calculate bitterness. For example: http://www.franklinbrew.org/tools/ibu.html

To see what hops you need for a extract late addition, figure out the gravity of the extract you are adding late and subtract from the recipes original gravity. You can see how your IBU will vary and so then you can adjust your hops to hit your desired IBU.

Joedub said:

I did the boil this morning 2 gallon boil. I added the 2# DME and a little less then half a can of LME at the beginning. At flame out I added the rest of the LME.

If I was to step up the boil to say 4 gallons would I need to adjust the recipe at all? I am trying to slowly transition to full boil extract then partial mash and eventually all grain but I am trying to take baby steps.

I was thinking of steeping grains in like 3 gallons next time and have a gallon of "sparge" water around 153F on another burner and batch sparge the specialty grain while they are in a strainer over the kettle. Then bringing the 4 gallons to a boil.

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Hmmm it never hit me till JBmadtown mentioned it that your hops amounts are so low. The style range for a Blond Ale is 15-28 IBU. Does the kit list a predicted IBU? And what are the kit instructions? In particular, boil volume, hops schedule and extract schedule?

For the method you followed, Beer Smith predicts your IBU to be 8.5. This is for a 5.25 gallon batch boiled for 60 min, assuming 8.5%AA for the NB hops and 5.5%AA for the Cascade and that both are boiled for 60 minutes, and using the Tinseth calculating setting. Frankly that is an IBU I would like as I prefer maltier beer! But you can brew your next batch to adjust in the direction you want. What matters more than specific IBU is IBU to OG (bitterness) ratio and your personal tastes.

Yes, increased boil volume will also result in higher hops utilization for the same reason (less sugar to interfere with utilization).

To give you an idea how much effect, when I only change the boil volume to 4 gallons, the IBU goes to 12.4 (a 46% increase). If I then make all the LME added at flameout, it goes up to 14.1

I have found that manually calculating IBU for late extract adds is more complicated than one might imagine. Which is why I sprung for Beer Smith. It makes it faster to model lots of scenarios.