Efficiency

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sgraham602

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So my efficiency seems to average between 65%-70%. Are there any easy ways to try to boost efficiency? Or should I just adjust recipes up, knowing that my efficiency is low.
 
Much of it depends on your process and equipment. Maybe try different sparging techniques like fly sparging instead of batch sparging. Without knowing what you have going on its hard to make recommendations.
 
i batch sparge, but i have fly sparged once. Maybe I'll give that a try again. Seems like I wouldn't leave as much water behind in my mash tun by fly sparging. I've noticed that on a few occasions my calculations for sparge water needed have been off and I've batch sparged with too much water.
 
Fly sparging doesn't give you better efficiency, it just takes a heck of a lot longer. I get 80% every time batch sparging in my cooler. What are you doing for your crush? I crush my grains twice, once to crack them and then a second time for my crush with the gap set at around .030. It was this that gave me that final 10% boost.
 
sgraham602 said:
i batch sparge, but i have fly sparged once. Maybe I'll give that a try again. Seems like I wouldn't leave as much water behind in my mash tun by fly sparging. I've noticed that on a few occasions my calculations for sparge water needed have been off and I've batch sparged with too much water.

The amount of water you leave behind is dependent on your equipment. Either method of sparging should leave the same amount of water in the mash tun.
 
crane said:
The amount of water you leave behind is dependent on your equipment. Either method of sparging should leave the same amount of water in the mash tun.

totally, but on a few occasions the calculator i used had me batch sparge with way more water than i needed/was able to collect, which meant i left a lot of water in the mash tun. not just the dead space.
 
sgraham602 said:
i dont have a grain mill right now. my LHBS crushes my grain.

It's possible and actually probable that you won't see much better efficiency till you get your own mill. Would they be willing to pass it through the mill twice? This may help. Many LHBS mills are dialed in to give around 65% because they don't want people complaining about a stuck sparge, and have no trouble selling the extra grain to make up for it.
 
I have found that being able to control grain crush by buying my own mill has improved my efficiency by 15% over LHBS crush. I've batch and fly sparged and don't see much difference between them. For me it's all in the crush!
 
earwig said:
No, I get better efficiency. I hate spending that extra 45min-1hr.

Then don't! I get great efficiency batch sparging. You should really give it a shot one more time with a nice fine crush if you haven't already.

Lol I went to my buddy's house recently while he was brewing and he was flipping out because he had been fly sparging and hadn't been attending the kettle, got a stuck sparge and overflowed his MT. One more thing to not worry about.
 
i batch sparge, but i have fly sparged once. Maybe I'll give that a try again. Seems like I wouldn't leave as much water behind in my mash tun by fly sparging. I've noticed that on a few occasions my calculations for sparge water needed have been off and I've batch sparged with too much water.

The type of sparge you do makes very little difference in efficiency if you do every thing right. My batch sparge efficiency is as high or higher than many fly spargers. Batch sparging with too much water can only increase your efficiency, assuming you boil down to your intended volume. And you can get low efficiency fly sparging if your lautering system isn't well designed.

The #1 factor in efficiency is grain crush. After that things like water chemistry and mash ratio can have an effect. But the first place to look is always the crush.
 
Batch sparging with too much water can only increase your efficiency, assuming you boil down to your intended volume. .

Do you mean decrease efficiency? I would have just assumed that batch sparging would make your efficiency worse.

Unless you're collecting all of that extra sparge water. in my case I have sparged with too much water and not been able to collect all of the second runnings due to my kettle size.
 
Denny is known to be the most pro-batch sparging person around. I never get as good efficiency as I do when I fly sparge. I am curious, is everyone who fly sparges just stupid? Are the people who make the fly sparge systems (commerically/pre-built) just out to rip everyone off?
 
Do you mean decrease efficiency? I would have just assumed that batch sparging would make your efficiency worse.

Unless you're collecting all of that extra sparge water. in my case I have sparged with too much water and not been able to collect all of the second runnings due to my kettle size.

Yeah, if you can't collect all the runnings, you leave sugar behind and can decrease your efficiency. But if you can collect all the wort you sparge, it will increase your efficiency. To make sure you use the right amount of water, after you run off the sparge measure how much wort you've got. Subtract that from the amount you want to boil. The answer you get is how much sparge water to use. Be sure there's no dead space in your tun or you'll be leaving sugar behind. I tip my tun at the end of the runoff to be sure I've got all the wort.

Batch sparging can be as efficiency as fly sparging and sometimes even moreso.
 
Denny is known to be the most pro-batch sparging person around. I never get as good efficiency as I do when I fly sparge. I am curious, is everyone who fly sparges just stupid? Are the people who make the fly sparge systems (commerically/pre-built) just out to rip everyone off?

Come on, you know neither statement is true. It's simply a choice of techniques and one works as well as the other if done correctly. My efficiency is usually in the 83-87% range. It takes me less equipment than when I fly sparged, it takes less time, and it minimizes the possibility of tannin extraction. But it's a choice I made, just like you made the choice to fly sparge. Now, I know if a lot of people who have switched from fly to batch sparging and never looked back. It's as much a personal choice as how you like to cook or what movies you want to watch.
 
I would say that consistency is much more important than efficiency (on a homebrew scale); nail your process to get consistent numbers and then adjust recipes accordingly.
 
Come on, you know neither statement is true. It's simply a choice of techniques and one works as well as the other if done correctly. My efficiency is usually in the 83-87% range. It takes me less equipment than when I fly sparged, it takes less time, and it minimizes the possibility of tannin extraction. But it's a choice I made, just like you made the choice to fly sparge. Now, I know if a lot of people who have switched from fly to batch sparging and never looked back. It's as much a personal choice as how you like to cook or what movies you want to watch.

Buy why would anyone want to fly sparge if it is pointless? Why would the equipment still exist? I don't know anyone who just likes their brewing to take an extra hour. :fro:
 
i batch sparged this morning and got 83% efficiency, 1.5 qt/lb mash ratio, 90min mash at 156deg. Bought all my grains from austinhomebrew.com and had them mill everything.
 
earwig said:
Buy why would anyone want to fly sparge if it is pointless? Why would the equipment still exist? I don't know anyone who just likes their brewing to take an extra hour. :fro:

Because some people feel that it is better, and so of course the market is going to respond to the needs of potential customers. If everyone suddenly decided that you needed 3 different peelers to properly peel a carrot, they would make those too. Basically it seems like Denny is taking to non-offensive road and saying that it is just a matter of preference. If you prefer to use the fly sparge method and spend an extra hour on your brew day then that it your right. Just know that there are people that have already cleaned up their gear by the time you're making your first hop addition and are getting the same efficiency doing it.
 
Because some people feel that it is better, and so of course the market is going to respond to the needs of potential customers. If everyone suddenly decided that you needed 3 different peelers to properly peel a carrot, they would make those too. Basically it seems like Denny is taking to non-offensive road and saying that it is just a matter of preference. If you prefer to use the fly sparge method and spend an extra hour on your brew day then that it your right. Just know that there are people that have already cleaned up their gear by the time you're making your first hop addition and are getting the same efficiency doing it.

Yes, and you're basically calling anyone who fly sparges dumb.
 
earwig said:
Yes, and you're basically calling anyone who fly sparges dumb.

Not what I said though is it. They just haven't yet come to understand that you can get just as good results in much less time. Only when you know that you can do just as well but choose not to do you approach stupidity in my book, but that's still just a matter of preference.
 
Not what I said though is it. They just haven't yet come to understand that you can get just as good results in much less time. Only when you know that you can do just as well but choose not to do you approach stupidity in my book, but that's still just a matter of preference.

haha those 2 dudes who worked at northern brewer must have heard this before... yet they still fly sparge when brewing all grain. You think their stupid. It's cool lol. There are probably 1000s of brewers that have heard this and still fly sparge... what dumbasses.
 
Mobeers said:
This is starting to get exciting! Please continue gentlemen.

Nah I'm done. If he wasn't going to take it from Denny Conn he sure isn't going to take it from me.
 
To be honest I just DON'T GET why fly sparging takes longer. I do a double batch sparge (no mash out, 10 minutes rest after each sparge addition is added, vorlouf every time) and it takes a while. 15 mins total for vorlouf, 20 mins total for sparge rests and prolly 20 mins to collect runnings: over 1hr total. I dont fly sparge b/c I only have one kettle and my mash tun is rectangular. Why is fly sparging considered to be the longer process of the two? Does it just take a really long time to collect the runnings (ie do you throttle down the valves really slow)? TIA!
 
my next purchase will be a grain mill! I'll be paying closer attention to my sparge volumes. Thanks all.

A grain mill definitely made the biggest difference for me as well. I went from 65% - 74% varying efficiency when I had Northern Brewer crush my grains to a rather consistent 81% efficiency. Seems the only time my efficiency comes in lower than 79-81% these days is when doing my pumpkin ales, and I figured it's likely due to the pumpkin in the mash (absorption, slows runoff, etc), though I still get 75% or so efficiency.


Rev.
 
I'm still struggling to get my efficiency consistent. I've done 5 all grain batches, with percentages of 61, 62, 73, 61, and yesterday I got 66. Not sure how I managed to pull that 73% but I would be happy to get that every time. I think it's got a lot to do with water volumes for me. I batch sparge, and yesterday I made sure to use less water than my previous batch, less than what Beersmith said to, I tipped my mash tun, but still didn't get as high as I wanted. Interestingly, it seems that I got out more than what I put in when I sparged, about .25 gallons. Oh well, it's a process. I think next time around I'm going to try splitting my sparge water into 2 additions.
 
i dont have a grain mill right now. my LHBS crushes my grain.

I increased my efficiency by >5% avg with store ground grain by recrushing it in a plastic bag with a rolling pin. Rarely have I found brew shop crush to be adequate and never as part of a kit batch.
 
I think next time around I'm going to try splitting my sparge water into 2 additions.

I double batch sparge. I personally think it makes more sense than a single larger rinse. I know there are some that will disagree but it's worked wonderfully for me.


Rev.
 
To be honest I just DON'T GET why fly sparging takes longer. I do a double batch sparge (no mash out, 10 minutes rest after each sparge addition is added, vorlouf every time) and it takes a while. 15 mins total for vorlouf, 20 mins total for sparge rests and prolly 20 mins to collect runnings: over 1hr total. I dont fly sparge b/c I only have one kettle and my mash tun is rectangular. Why is fly sparging considered to be the longer process of the two? Does it just take a really long time to collect the runnings (ie do you throttle down the valves really slow)? TIA!

You're taking too long to batch sparge. One batch is enough unless your tun isn't big enough to hold all the water at once. And there's absolutely nothing to be gained from a 10 min. rest after adding your sparge water. It takes me a total of 15 min. from the time I start running off my mash til the time I finish running off my sparge.
 
I double batch sparge. I personally think it makes more sense than a single larger rinse. I know there are some that will disagree but it's worked wonderfully for me.


Rev.

I tried a double batch sparge maybe 12-15 times. I saw my efficiency rise maybe 2-3%. I don't consider that enough of a gain to be worth my time or effort. There are other things you can do that will increase your efficiency much more than that. And BTW, in batch sparging you're draining, not rinsing. That's why doing it twice shouldn't really increase your efficiency much.
 
Can draining the mash tun slower when batch sparging increase efficiency?

Nope. I've experimented with that, too. If you were rinsing, going slower would help. But as pointed out, you're not rinsing, you're draining. The sugar is in solution in the liquid, not in the grain.
 
And BTW, in batch sparging you're draining, not rinsing. That's why doing it twice shouldn't really increase your efficiency much.

In regard to what you said prior, that's your experience and I certainly wouldn't argue that. But you really want to correct my use of the term "rinse"? Really? Come on now. You are effectively rinsing the grain to get all the wort off them. From dictionary.com's 2nd and 3rd entry:


2. to douse or drench in clean water as a final stage in washing.
3. to remove (soap, dirt, etc.) by such a process (often followed by off ).

We are removing the wort. To get it out of the tun you are draining, obviously.


Rev.
 
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