Saison Ete

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Sixbillionethans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
11
Location
Wauwatosa, WI
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
WY3711
Yeast Starter
800ml
Batch Size (Gallons)
5
Original Gravity
1.070
Final Gravity
1.004
Boiling Time (Minutes)
90
IBU
33
Color
6
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
75F/1day, 80F/1day, 82F/5days
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
60/2weeks
Additional Fermentation
Bottle condition
Tasting Notes
One fantastic beer. Yeast is awesome.
Recipe based loosely on Saison Ete recipe from Zymurgy.

MASHED GRAINS
9# Belgian Pils
3# German Wheat Malt
0.5# Vienna

ADDITIONAL FERMENTABLES
1# Organic Cane Sugar

HOPS
2oz Styrian Goldings (3.8%aa) @ 90 mins
1oz Saaz (3.8%aa) @ 60 mins
1oz Saaz @ @ 5 mins
1oz Saaz Dry Hopped

OTHER ADDITIONS
0.25tsp Black Pepper @ 5 mins
0.25tsp Coriander @ 5 mins

MASHING NOTES
120F for 10mins.
148F for 60 mins.
73% efficiency was lower than usual. Probably should have increased saccarification rest to 90 mins due to the low mash temp.

FERMENTATION NOTES
75 for 24 hrs, 80 for 24 hrs, 82 for 5 days, cellar after that. 1.004 after 3 days when I transferred to secondary.

BOTTLING NOTES
1 cup corn sugar. Condition for 2 weeks.


ADDITIONAL TASTING NOTES
What an awesome yeast strain! Wow.
I'm particularly proud of this beer. Although the yeast did most of the work, and the recipe was largely a copy of one out of Zymurgy, it turned out fantastic. Careful mash and fermentation control really paid off big time, as this beer is very very good.
Taste hides the 8.5% alc with easy, and is surprising refreshing. Crisp and dry, yet with more body than I would have expected from a beer that finished at 1.004.
Color is a barely hazy straw with a nice white head. High carbonation is evident in the large bubbles that roll up the side of the glass.
Hop bitterness is there, but not at all overwhelming or puckering.
Tastes is tons of yeast contributions with lots of citrus, spice, and vanilla. Malt is there as well.
 
I am going to attempt this recipe this weekend.

Can anyone help me with a couple of questions?

When using the black pepper and coriander do i add this to the boil, or secondary?

Do I use whole pepper/coriander?

any advantage/disadvantage to using turbinado vs cane sugar? Can I use the sugar in the raw stuff? Sugar In The Raw/Unrefined, 32-Ounce Boxes (Pack of 6): Amazon.com: Grocery

or even corn sugar, candi sugar or some other option.

How do I boost my mash temp up from 120 to 148?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Can anyone help me with a couple of questions?
Yes

When using the black pepper and coriander do i add this to the boil, or secondary?
I treat spices like hops. The later you add them, the more aroma you get. I added these with 5 minutes left in the boil.

Do I use whole pepper/coriander?
I weigh them out, then put them in a ziplock bag and run 'em over with a rolling pin to crush them.

Any advantage/disadvantage to using turbinado vs cane sugar? Can I use the sugar in the raw stuff? Sugar In The Raw/Unrefined, 32-Ounce Boxes (Pack of 6): Amazon.com: Grocery or even corn sugar, candi sugar or some other option.
This is an excellent question. So many sugars are available, and they will give you such an array of flavors. I'm a big fan of the cane sugar that I get from my local natural food store. It's only slightly darker than table sugar, and has a very mild caramel flavor. The darker the sugar, the more flavor it will contribute. Personally, I haven't liked beers done with turbinado, it gives a flavor that I don't love.

How do I boost my mash temp up from 120 to 148?
Boosting temps in this case was with a stepped infusion mash. Check out something like How to Brew for info.
 
Just brewed up something similar to this.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.80 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 65.5 %
3.60 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 21.8 %
0.60 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 3.6 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50%] (90 min) Hops 22.6 IBU
1.50 oz Saaz [4.00%] (60 min) Hops 14.9 IBU
1.50 oz Saaz [4.00%] (5 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1.50 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 9.1 %

OG was 1.080, after 4 days at 82 degrees the Kruiesen dropped and the gravity was at 1.012. At this point I figured it was done with 85% attenuation, so I pulled the plug to let the beer cool down. Later when I checked on it there was an inch of head on it once again. 3711 is a monster of a saison yeast.
 
Bottling this one tomorrow, FG of 1.004!!!!!!!! 10% ABV 95% Attenuation! Tasting notes will come in the future
 
Glad the recipe sounds like it worked out for you. Sorry for late response, I don't get to this site as often as I used to.

I actually have my 4th Saison w/ 3711 in primary right now.

I've learned a few things through the batches:

1. Consider using spices. I think this yeast benefits from it, since it's really clean and fruity. A small amount of spices seems to balance it.

2. I'm a big fan of starting these (Belgian) yeasts at a little lower temp then ramping them up. 12-24 hrs @ 70ish, 12-24hrs @ 75ish, finish @ 80-85F. You avoid the fusels that way.

3. I know I used wheat malt on this one, but I've switched over to unmalted grains as they are more authentic. The flaked grains don't need any special treatment, but a rest at like 100-110F will make the gums more soluble.
 
Thanks for the advice Ethan, I just bottled this one today, it attenuated down to 1.000. This yeast is pretty amazing. How long did you let yours set before cracking into one? I'm thinking this one is going to take a while to come into it's own. I have to admit that I was a bit surprised at how mellow the alcohol flavor was for a 10.5% beer. I'm just about to dough in for another saison- This time I'm going to do a pumpkin spice hybrid. I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out!
 
OK! So I did the Pumpkin Spice Saison! I didn't think ahead so I went to my local HBS/Work to pick up supplies.

10# American 2 row
.5# Wheat malt
.5# Crystal 60
.5# Toasted Marris Otter
3# Libbey's 100% pumpkin- Caramelized @ 350 F for 1.5 hours
1.5# Brown Sugar

1.0 oz Norther American Brewer Hops @ 60
1.0 oz Sazz @ 20
4 cinnamon sticks @ 10
3 tsp nutmeg @ 10
5 whole cloves @ 10
1 tsp all spice @ 10

Pitched on top of my old yeast cake, I'm anticipating a violent fermentation. OG of 1.070

So I took your advice and really played with spices this time, I'm also doing a gradual heat up. Again thanks for the tips.
 
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 75F/1day, 80F/1day, 82F/5days
Additional Fermentation: Bottle condition
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 60/2weeks

FERMENTATION NOTES
75 for 24 hrs, 80 for 24 hrs, 82 for 5 days, cellar after that. 1.004 after 3 days when I transferred to secondary.


I have a couple ?'s about fermentation on this...when you racked to secondary did you repitch yeast or just rely on what was in solution? you kept it in secondary for 2 weeks at 60 or in teh bottle for 2 weeks at 60?

We brewed this beer almost exactly (we added Amarillo hops at 5m and a tiny piece of cardamom and star anise--was inspired by your recommendations Ethan), but didnt get quite as high gravity...1068, but it may still be a bit warm, so could go up...you took it at what temp?
(im still a relatively new brewer...going to buy Amazon.com: How to Brew: Everything You Need To Know To Brew Beer Right The First Time (9780937381885): John J. Palmer: Books
which will hopefully help me answer a lot of the ?'s I have.

after reading this thread i was really excited by the attenuation results you guys got from this yeast strain...hope I can get similar...I know the key is fermentation temp, so going to do my best to keep it warm for the next couple days, then cool it after I hopefully get a huge drop in sugar like you guys did!

cheers!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
when you racked to secondary did you repitch yeast or just rely on what was in solution?

Rely on what's in solution.

but didnt get quite as high gravity...1068, but it may still be a bit warm, so could go up...you took it at what temp?


Accurate gravity readings for most hydrometers is at 68 degrees Fahrenheit, what temperature did you read the gravity at? A higher temperature will cause a lower gravity to be read. Also what was your mash schedule like?

Palmer is a great resource for brew knowledge.

I know the key is fermentation temp, so going to do my best to keep it warm for the next couple days

A great way to keep beer warm is with a reptile tank heater, they can usually raise the beer 10 degrees above ambient temperature.

Andy
 
Just tried my Saison the other night, and I think I may be in love. This beer is crisp, dry and silky smooth with loads of spice, pepper and fruit. You'd never guess it's 10.5% from the pallet, but it does warm you as it sets in the stomach.
 
when you racked to secondary did you repitch yeast or just rely on what was in solution?

Rely on what's in solution.

but didnt get quite as high gravity...1068, but it may still be a bit warm, so could go up...you took it at what temp?


Accurate gravity readings for most hydrometers is at 68 degrees Fahrenheit, what temperature did you read the gravity at? A higher temperature will cause a lower gravity to be read. Also what was your mash schedule like?

Palmer is a great resource for brew knowledge.

I know the key is fermentation temp, so going to do my best to keep it warm for the next couple days

A great way to keep beer warm is with a reptile tank heater, they can usually raise the beer 10 degrees above ambient temperature.

Andy

Hey Andy! Thanks so much for the tips! I really appreciate it!

We used a heating pad (Jess is a physical therapist) and it worked beautifully.


Actually I had such good results with this yeast...the batch got all the way down to 1004 that I impulsively added the kingston amber ale right onto the yeast cake from secondary. Yeast chewed through this 1060 wort in 36 hrs...the carboy was very warm (had to be in the 80's) and the ambient temp in our boston apt was around 60-66! I didnt rack this ale...very happy with the final product and so excited for my both of these to mature!!!
 
Awesome Wilson. I just started cracking into my Pumpkin Saisons, they're a real crowd pleaser, it's got nice balance- Not too much pumpkin or spice flavor. The 3711 compliments this beer quite well. I just did a low gravity saison- 1.050, it's in the secondary now. I have a Golden Strong that didn't attenuate to where I was hoping, so I'm going to throw it on the saison yeast cake and see what happens. My original saison has been in the bottle for 2 months now, it's come along way, yet it still has a lot more to go. I taped up a case of 20 17oz bottles and hid it away from myself in hopes of trying it after 6+ months. I have 2 bottles left of what I allotted for early drinking. Wish me luck.
 
Forgive the newbie question, but why does the recipe add sugar when this yeast attenuates so highly? Won't it give the dry result we want without the sugar?
 
I suppose it's a decent question.

WY3711 is so attenuative, that some of the traditional logic might not necessarily hold. But I'm not convinced that an all-malt beer would drop to such a dry FG.

It would be an excellent experiment, though. Nice suggestion.

WY3711 has become so popular now, that you might find more people trying unique recipes.
 
Update. So I did a smaller gravity Saison with the third generation of this yeast cake. It was a 1050 with just 10 lbs of pills and half a pound of wheat malt, and it also attenuated down to 1. So sugar might not be necessary if you keep within a certain gravity range... but still that's 6.5% abv
 
I have a general question but am posting it here since this is the brew I'm doing this weekend. I'm trying to remember why you go a step mash. In this case, 10 minutes at 120 and 148 for 60 minutes. I've never done one and can but was wondering the benefit. Doesn't it help extracting protein and thereby clearing the beer?
 
Update. So I did a smaller gravity Saison with the third generation of this yeast cake. It was a 1050 with just 10 lbs of pills and half a pound of wheat malt, and it also attenuated down to 1. So sugar might not be necessary if you keep within a certain gravity range... but still that's 6.5% abv

Did you just rack the first beer off and pour the other Saison directly on the cake? I am interested in trying this, as I know I will be brewing a lot of Saisons in the near future since they work well in my climate and I don't want to have to buy new yeast every batch.
 
Did you just rack the first beer off and pour the other Saison directly on the cake?

That's exactly what I did! It works out great, if you keep it sanitary and wash your yeast periodically you can keep the same culture going for quite some time.
 
That's exactly what I did! It works out great, if you keep it sanitary and wash your yeast periodically you can keep the same culture going for quite some time.

I'm interested in trying this. Might just try it after I brew my next saison. I've heard this can lead to overpitching, have you experienced any off flavors from doing this?
 
I know I mentioned I did it on a batch, but be careful with cell counts if you start putting wort batches on top of yeast cakes. If the 2 batches have similar gravities, you're probably over-pitching on the 2nd.

There's lots of other threads on that topic. But this is a case where you want to pitch on the low end for cellcount so the yeast throw off the esters and phenols.
 
I just brewed this bad boy today. Only modifications were using Hallertau instead of Styrains hops and turbinado instead of cane sugar. I made a 10 gallon batch. My OG was a little less but since I only get 65% efficiency it was expected. I wasn't sure I wanted an 8% saison so I'm ok with that.
 
out of curiosity, what might one do if they want to keep it from fermenting all the way down? say i wanted to keep just a little sugar there to play with the spices? would i just crash cool it when i get the FG to where i want it? any other way?
 
out of curiosity, what might one do if they want to keep it from fermenting all the way down? say i wanted to keep just a little sugar there to play with the spices? would i just crash cool it when i get the FG to where i want it? any other way?

Yeah you can just cold crash it when it hits your desired gravity. You could also mash at a higher temperature to leave more unfermentable dextrins in the wort. Or you could boost the amount of unfermentable grains in the recipe, carapils or other crystal malts.
 
Yeah you can just cold crash it when it hits your desired gravity. You could also mash at a higher temperature to leave more unfermentable dextrins in the wort. Or you could boost the amount of unfermentable grains in the recipe, carapils or other crystal malts.

If you cold crash before it is done you are setting your self up for bottle bombs if you bottle. Don't even think about doing that.
 
About to attempt this one tomorrow!! However, I think I may leave the sugar out depending on my final gravity.
 
Just brewed this one yesterday. I wanted to keep it a little lighter so I didn't use the extra 1# of sugar. I also left out the dry hopping. Planning to keg so I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
 
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