Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

Must have been too cold in the area where you have your fermenter. Heat it up to 80-82 and it should finish it off.
Did you hit your mash temperatures properly? How closely did you follow the recipe/directions.

Brewed the New World recipe yesterday and everything went fine, and I have a question about cold conditioning.

I'm not going to keg this because I would like to keep a few bottles a year or so to see how it will age. Is it possible to bottle the beer after the primary fermentation, let it sit warm for a week (to carbonate) and then cold condition it for a couple of months?

The alternative (which I guess is the best) is to rack it into a glass carboy and let it sit in the carboy about two months. Then pitch fresh yeast (possible to use yeast harvested from primary fermentation) and bottle it with priming sugar.

I've never tried that, but I would imagine you will want to cold condition after racking and before bottling.

My thought exactly I was hoping to avoid pitching fresh yeast, I'm lazy.

But do you think it's possible to use some of the yeast from the primary fermentation if stored properly in a sanitized container kept in a fridge?

If you throw in some fresh wort in the container before decanting and using it. Carbonating is stressful on yeast because its going into an already alcoholic and nutrient deprived environment and you want to have it perform well.

I made this and bottled about 2 months ago. Saq, this recipe is off the chain. I'm getting complements left and right about this one. The only downside is I may not have enough for myself. Thanks for posting.

How fast are you guys raising the temp? Are you just letting it go over a day or something?

Missed this thread the first time around.
This looks fantastic.

I'm letting the temp free rise. Basically I chill it in my fermentation chest freezer down to 65 with a little bit of thermal mass in there at 65 as well and then turn the controller up to my top end temp like say 79 and check on it so that it gets into the right place. Eventually I'm going to get a nice thermowell and digital controller and I'll just have it dialed in exactly.

My batch of this is getting better and better. I'm glad I don't drink them often, I still have about a case left from when I brewed it last November. It is one of the best quads I have ever had.

This recipe sounds great, but unfortunately I'm still doing extract with specialty grain. Would I be able to convert this one and do it that way?

My fermentation didn't go so well. I was expecting that the fermentation itself would bring the beer to nice warm temperatures, but I was wrong. I think it was at 22 - 23 degrees (celcius) at the most.

I let it sit for three weeks in the primary, and when I measured SG today, it was 1012!! I was pretty shocked that it had fermented that well at low temperatures. But the beer tasted very little "belgian", not much yeast character.

Now that you are done with fermentation rack it to secondary for a few months, a lot of the delicious dark fruit flavors come out during aging.

Yep, did that yesterday. Now it's removed from the yeast and sitting in a freezer set at 10 degrees c / 50 F.

I tasted it yesterday and I couldn't even guess that a belgian yeast had been used, and it was extremely strong. Didn't taste alcohol, but you could feel it in a strange way.

Do you think it would be benefitial to age at a lower temperature?

So, biting the bullet and going to brew this one today. I am going to try my best to follow the initial schedule, will try to get it down to the 65F for pitching, and hope that wrapping it with towels will let it self rise to the temps I am needing and hold there. I have no real good way of heating it, other than perhaps surrounding the fermenter with heated water.

Question on the cooling down part- will it ramp down on its own at this point, and effectively I can just pitch yeast, wrap it up, and forget it until it cools down and reaches the FG? Or will there be possibility of the temp staying in the high 70's to low 80's for too long and adding bad flavors? I figure once I hit that 1.018 area I will just unwrap the ferementer, and then the next day if it is still fermenting away stick in some cooler water to get it to the 65F mark.

This sound like a good plan? I am going at this without any specialty equipment. Heck, I am going to cold crash with finings after that and then let it sit in the secondary to age for a month and a half before bottling. Unless, of course, anyone out there wishes to guide otherwise.

Excited to try this one!

Chriselv: A lot of that will age out. I feel that a 50f aging temp is a good temp as its just warm enough to let the yeast go to sleep slowly.

Tall Yotie: A blanket or sleeping bag would be an easy way to raise temp, I've done it in the winter and it got me up to temp no problem.

If you can't cool it after the initial fermentation is done I don't think you will have any off flavors because of it, but it will make it harder to clarify it, the yeast doesn't floccuate super well.
If you have a way to cold crash just let fermentation go 4 weeks or so and cold crash it for a a week.
After that age it for 2 months or so and then bottle it and see how it develops.

Thanks for the info! I brewed this up, let it cool overnight, and just pitched the yeast. Unfortunately I may have under pitched, as the yeast starter didn't have as much yeast built up on the bottom after decanting as I hoped. If it isn't kicking up a lot tomorrow I will go grab some more yeast, hopefully it starts up and just ramps a little slower up to the temp.

update: 0.o

24 hours, bubbling like crazy, and I am at 85F. If it goes any higher then that I am going to have to cool it down like a kid with a fever. And here I was, worried I would be having to HEAT this beast. I have learned, Saq speaks the truth and nothing but. The 2 bps (giants ones, sounds like a techno beat) is slowly driving my wife insane. Good times!

Hey guys, I've been stalking around for a while but I have basically zero experience. I have done a lot of reading, and have friends that know what they're talking about. I think I've come up with an okay extract-based recipe for the Pious Traditional, what do y'all think? Oh, it's all from NorthernBrewer:

Instead of all the grains, I was thinking 3lbs Briess DME Golden Light and 3lbs Briess DME Pilsen, followed up by everything else being the same. I came up with these because the Briess DME golden light was part of a kit to create a Belgian similar to a Pale Ale. The Pilsen is obviously in a kit for a Pilsner. I put it in an online calculator and came up with a theoretical OG of 1.089.

victorzamora said:

Instead of all the grains, I was thinking 6lbs Briess DME Golden Light and 6lbs Briess DME Pilsen, followed up by everything else being the same. I came up with these because the Briess DME golden light was part of a kit to create a Belgian similar to a Pale Ale. The Pilsen is obviously in a kit for a Pilsner. I put it in an online calculator and came up with a theoretical OG of 1.089.

Click to expand...

The golden light is mostly 2-row, which is not quite the same as Belgian Pale (see the May 15, 2008 episode "Base Malt Experiment" of Basic Brewing Video for more: http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=video). However, it may not be THAT far off. You'll still probably make a really good beer.

Go for it.

Is there an extract more similar to a Belgian Pale Ale out there?

I would go for some Pilsner extract to cover your base malt gravity contribution and add the specialty malts and candi syrup from the New World.

Alrighty then, how about this iteration. I used BeerCalculus for my helper this time.

Biscuit 8oz, Caramunich 16oz, Chocolate 4oz, & Aromatic 6oz steeped for 30min's between 160F and 170F
5lbs Briess Pilsen DME or Briess Pilsner LME all added for 60min boil
D2 Candi Syrup, 3#, added for 60min boil
Cane Sugar, 3#, added for 60min boil
Styrian Goldings 1oz, Hersbrucker .5oz, Northern Brewer 1oz all added for 60min boil
Fermcap and Irish Moss for protection and help
WLP530 Abbey Ale Yeast

I'd follow the fermentation schedule per the recommendations in post 1. Anything I'm missing or should change? Also, opinions on which extract. The DME is from Northern Brewer and the LME is from MoreBeer. Thanks, guys!

Oh, and BeerCalculus is saying:
9.7%ABV, 24.7 IBU's, OG 1.094, 38 SRM
for a 5.5Gal batch with the ingredients listed above.

I wouldn't mess with the fermentation schedule, try to get as close as you can.
Follow the hop schedule posted.
6lbs of sugar is way too much, just do 3lbs of d2 and make up the gravity points with pilsner extract.
Just steep your grains while you are heating them up and then let as much drip out as you can. You aren't going for conversion so temperature doesn't matter other than making it soluble. Pull the grains when you get to 160 and let it drip out.

Yup, fermentation schedule will be untouched. I just saw the hop schedule (total newbie) and will follow it. Should I boil the whole thing for 90min, then...or boil the hops for 30 and then put the Extract and Candi Syrup in for 60min? I think I decided on the LME from MoreBeer as it's significantly cheaper than the other two options I've found. Also, sans the 3lbs of sugar it goes to:

Biscuit 8oz, Caramunich 16oz, Chocolate 4oz, & Aromatic 6oz steeped
7lbs Briess Pilsner LME for ??min boil
D2 Candi Syrup, 3#, added for ??min boil
Styrian Goldings 1oz 30 min
Hersbrucker .5oz 30 min
Northern Brewer 1oz 90min
Fermcap and Irish Moss
WLP530 Abbey Ale Yeast

PS-thanks for the quick reply!

Once you finish steeping theres no reason to delay adding the LME, doing it before the boil will also help reduce the amount of scorching that will occur when you add it. Add it slowly and try to make it dissolve quickly. Letting it get warmed up will help speed this process.

Start boiling and start your timer for 90 minutes, adding your nothern brewer hops at the beginning of the boil, and then after an hour has passed add the other hops (30 minutes left in the boil).

Add the candi syrup at the end of the boil.

That works, I guess I'll do it that way. I was told to wait for it to boil so that the upwards currents would help lift the substances due to convection. I tried it this past weekend (my first brew, a Scottish 80 kit from NB) with a friend and we got very little scorching using the convection to our advantage.

Also, does the candi syrup go in as I turn the heat off....or like 10min of boil? I know I'm freaking out, but I don't want the schedule to keep me from what could be an okay extract-copy of this obviously good recipe.

You'll still get upward convections before a boil, it will just be greater. Add it slowly and stir quickly and you should be fine. Just get to a strong boil before starting the timer and adding your first hops.
To get the maximum flavor from the dark candi syrup add after the burner is off. This will help drop the temps of your kettle too which is nice.

Awesome. Updating recipe now, then.

saq, I thought you previously thought that boiling the D2 for the full length of the boil would help get some further carmelization of the sugars. Have you since changed your thoughts on that process? I have no doubt that both would be very nice indeed, I boiled mine for the full length and at about 1 year since brew day it's a fantastic beer.

Thanks again for the recipe.

I have been experimenting and you do get some interesting flavors from boiling the syrup for the full length but lately I've not boiled it at all and like those flavors too.
I'm going to mess with making some wort+brown sugar candi syrup sometime to kind of try my hand at doing it Achel Extra style.

Question on the yeast. In my recipe, where do I go with quantity? I've only helped brew one batch so far, and it was out of a kit. Do I just get one package of the WL530/WY3787 and hope for the best or what?

I know this is a really stupid question, but I AM asking it

As for the Yeast. With this big of a beer (9% abv) it would be best to have a 2-3 qt starter at least, so first to answer your question, yes you can just get one package. BUT it is a must to turn that one package into a yeast starter several DAYS before brewing this beer.

If you are not sure how to make a starter - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-76101/

Second, if this is your first brew or even second brew - I would not recommend this recipe to try first out... it is a little more complex than your average kit... but to not discourage, it can be done. READ UP, make sure you are ready for each step, and be ready for blowoff.

I'm doing this with a friend that has several dozen under his belt. The problem is college apartments and budgets don't allow us to do all-grain. Two friends do a lot of extract-based brewing, and I've learned at least as much from them as I have from reading on here. The only thing that scares me is the blowoff. I don't think either of them have dealt with anything like the horror stories I've been reading about the blowoff on this thing. I'm planning on doing a 5.5G batch in a 6.5G carboy. Even with fermcap, should I plan on doing a half-batch first? Or maybe split a full batch between two carboys?

If you use a good amount of fermcap you shouldn't have blowoff problems.
A 2-3 liter starter off a stirplate is definitely going to be required, or you could buy two packs of the westmalle yeast (WLP530/WY3787) and pitch that.
I wouldn't expect much if you are making an extract beer with no temperature control, certainly not westvleteren 12 level quality, but it should be pretty tasty.

What do you mean by temperature control? I mean, I know the basic idea...but what would you recommend as minimum equipment to try and get as close to a Westy12 with an extract? If it requires someone that's obsessive, I'm the man for the job!

Haha, I know I must sound like an idiot. Westy12 is my first attempt to brew. I also want full Westy12 taste with no equipment AND from an extract. This isn't my first hobby, and I know I've been annoyed by people that sound like what I'm getting at.

Plain and simple, you are not getting there with extract. You can make a pretty good beer though.
Temperature control = exactly holding the fermentation temperature at your target temp. You need to start at 65f and let the fermenter temperature (not ambient temperture) rise up to about 80 for a week, and then cool it down to 65 and crash it down to 55 for two months or so.
Doing this without a fridge/freezer you can control the temperature on with an electronic control device is not possible.

That's fine. If I can get close, I'll be happy. Before I started this journey I realized I wasn't going to get A+ results....the question is am I going to get like an A-/B+ and is it worth me brewing over a proven extract recipe?

I can't always brew it the way I want or as good as I want and I've been working on this recipe a long time. There is no proven extract recipe and I don't think it is possible to get one right. A lot about brewing is learning your process and figuring out how you need to brew to get the effect you want.
Thats not even taking into account the fact that this is your first beer.
However, keep at it and brew it a few times learning as you go, definitely go all grain and you'll start turning out a pretty good beer.