Apple ale????

Hey all,

So I've been lurking for a while but now I am hoping to tap that vast keg of local knowledge.

A friend of mine really wants to brew an apple ale. Sort of a beer cider hybrid crisp, clean, and cool for the summer.

I was thinking of trying to brew a simple Belgian pale, forgoing the hops, primary fermentation as per the norm and then put some nice cider during the transfer to secondary.

Has anyone every made something like this that could suggest/comment on a recipe or methodology.

Cheerios,
Haigha

I am going ot try this at some point: Patersbier.

"Made only from pilsner malt, hops, and yeast, the complexity that results from these simple ingredients is staggering: perfumey floral hops, ripe pear fruit, sour apple, spicy cloves, candied citrus and a slight biscuit character on the drying finish ... a monks' session beer."

How about adding some apple to that? Either a little bit of extract, or some frozen, thawed and pureed and added to 2ndary?

Here's a recipe I just found using google...

APPLE BEER:

Ingredients:

6 lbs. light malt extract 1 lb honey 1 1/2 oz. Hallertauer hops (flavoring) 1/2 oz. Halletauer hops (aromatic) 1 quart of apple juice (if you haven't made your own, choose an apple juice without preservatives from your grocery store--many preservatives inhibit yeast growth). 2 packages of Nottingham Ale Yeast .

Procedure:

Boil 5 gallons of water. Add extract and flavoring hops. Boil for 60 minutes. Add honey and aromatic hops and flame-out. Chill to 170. Add apple juice. Top off with water to make five gallons. Chill to 75 degrees and add yeast starter. Rack after one week to secondary. Bottle or keg after fermentation is complete.

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Get your hands on New Glarus Apple Ale somehow. Pretty much perfect.

That New Glarus Apple Ale sounds pretty much exactly like what we are going for. While I am reasonably experienced all-grain brewer I am a complete neophyte when it comes to recipe formulation. Anyone with a decent all-grain clone (or reasonable facsimile thereof) recipe?

I knew you guys would come through.

Cheers

oh yeah and in terms of hops. I've been trying to think of a hop that would lend itself well to the 'appleness' and really have been contemplating not hopping at all. Thoughts?

Heh... I pretty much made exactly what you're describing. I used some left over LME, hops, 2 gallons of cider, and some belgian yeast slurry from a belgian pale that was finishing up. I will be force carbing and drinking it this weekend, i will let you know how it is. Here's my thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/todays-leftovers-special-amber-ale-cider-brew-113788/

Also check this thread out. It's more towards the cider side of things, but it sounds very interesting: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/graff-malty-slightly-hopped-cider-117117/

haigha said:

oh yeah and in terms of hops. I've been trying to think of a hop that would lend itself well to the 'appleness' and really have been contemplating not hopping at all. Thoughts?

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I wouldn't want ANY hop flavor or aroma in this beer, I would want the aroma and flavor to of the apples to shine through.

I would go with a low IBU beer, with the hops for bitterness only (as opposed to the recipe I posted) I would use a single addition at 60 minutes for bitterness.

Since the extract and honey in the recipe I posted has an OG 1.050 (not factoring in any apple juice you add to it....You'd have to look for the numbers on that.

I would go by this IBU/OG Chart and aim for slightly malty or evenly balanced beer.



In this case, for a balanced to slightly malty (no pronounced hop aroma or flavor) would be IBU's in the 20-25 Ibu range (like a typical BMC beer, except for that "triple hopped" beer )

And I would use a bittering only hop that didn't impart much hop characteristics...maybe the afore mentioned hallataurer.

But then most importantly to get the apple aroma in the beer, in addition to any juice/cider added, I would had a few ounces of apple peels at 10 minutes, 5 minutes, and at flame out. Instead of hops....that you "lock in" some apple aroma...

I might also consider secondarying and "dry peeling" with some more peels...or rack onto some smashed apples, or a few tea bags of apple spiced tead (if you want some cinnamon/apple pie spice flavors) or all of the above.

MacBruver said:

Also check this thread out. It's more towards the cider side of things, but it sounds very interesting: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/graff-malty-slightly-hopped-cider-117117/

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Damn, I knew there was a term for this. I was racking my brain, and kept getting stuck on cysers..thanks for posting Graff info.

I only used like an ounce of cascades, both for bittering and flavor hops in mine. It's baaaarely thare, but it's good. I think using low-AA hops works really well, as you're not looking for a lot of character... just a little depth, and the preservative properties.

Revvy said:

Damn, I knew there was a term for this. I was racking my brain, and kept getting stuck on cysers..thanks for posting Graff info.

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You know what the craziest thing about that term is?

Snuffalupagus said:

To avoid any continual debate on the "cider" moniker for this recipie

I propose we call it something totally different...

Are any of you ladies and gents familiar with Steven King's
"Dark Tower" series of books?

anyway - in this series, in addition to common wines and beers a made up drink called "Graff" Graff is commonly served at bars and events. the only discription of it describes it as a "strong apple beer"
not a cider or wine, but a "beer" - evidently while being quite quaffable, it packs a bit of a punch, and Gunslingers (the protagonists of the series) tend to enjoy it in moderation because of this "sneak up and bite you" property of the drink.

I think we should name Brandon's invention Graff - as the ingredient list he has posted makes me think of this "strong apple beer" described in Steven Kings Series of books.

what do you think... wanna call it Graff?

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When I first saw it called Graff (before reading the above quote) my first thought was the same as yours. It just sounds right.

Oh crap..you're right, I remember that term in the Dark Tower Books!

Cool!!! Another literary brew, to go along with Klingon Blood Ale, and the pumkin juice from Harry Potter.

Wow, I read the entire Dark Tower series and didn't even realize that that is where the term "graff" came from! That's awesome, I gues I just thought graff was an actual drink (like something historical or whatever). I guess it's real now, huh? I'm totally brewing up some graff soon!

That was a seriously epic series! Holy crap, that spider/baby with mind control powers was seriously EFFED UP!

mc_eric said:

Wow, I read the entire Dark Tower series and didn't even realize that that is where the term "graff" came from! That's awesome, I gues I just thought graff was an actual drink (like something historical or whatever). I guess it's real now, huh? I'm totally brewing up some graff soon!

That was a seriously epic series! Holy crap, that spider/baby with mind control powers was seriously EFFED UP!

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This discussion led me to hit a books store and pick up Wolves of the Calla....I haven't read the series all the way through, I keep waiting for them to all come out in one usinform sized paperbacks...They released the first four in really nice papeerback editions...number iv was over a year ago, so I was hoping...no luck, wolves was released in an elongated paperback as was number 7...number 6 appears NOT to have been re-released in anysize but the original...sheesh.....it will take me forever to get them in a decent uniform size.

Revvy said:

This discussion led me to hit a books store and pick up Wolves of the Calla....I haven't read the series all the way through, I keep waiting for them to all come out in one usinform sized paperbacks...They released the first four in really nice papeerback editions...number iv was over a year ago, so I was hoping...no luck, wolves was released in an elongated paperback as was number 7...number 6 appears NOT to have been re-released in anysize but the original...sheesh.....it will take me forever to get them in a decent uniform size.

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I just re-read the series over the summer as I read each book the first time as they came out, so it was spread over more than a decade the first time. Even better reading them back to back. Even more off topic... JJ Abrahams bought the rights to make the movie/series/miniseries of the Dark Tower series. King charged him NINETEEN dollars for it.

I'm going to have to make me some graff as well. Maybe this fall when I can get fresh pressed cider easily.

ChshreCat said:

I just re-read the series over the summer as I read each book the first time as they came out, so it was spread over more than a decade the first time. Even better reading them back to back. Even more off topic... JJ Abrahams bought the rights to make the movie/series/miniseries of the Dark Tower series. King charged him NINETEEN dollars for it.

I'm going to have to make me some graff as well. Maybe this fall when I can get fresh pressed cider easily.

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Oh...My...God...JJ Abrahams might do Dark Tower????????

*Dies and goes to heaven*

Revvy said:

Oh...My...God...JJ Abrahams might do Dark Tower????????

*Dies and goes to heaven*

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Stephen King's Dark Tower Movies - Your doorway to The Dark Tower

Eh-hem.

I would recommend against apple in Patersbier. I have made that kit (it is a favorite with everyone) but I think the astringency may clash with the apple. Given your desire to use a Belgian yeast, I would suggest an Ephemere clone. There have been a few attempts posted in this forum. You might pick up a bottle to see if that's what you are after.

Thanks all for the guidance. Living in an area where Unibroue is quite prevalent I have had it a couple of times. My brew buddy vastly prefers the Newtons Apple beer.

We had a 'tasting' last night of about four different 'apple beers' and I think I know which direction we are going to try.

I think we are going to do a four gallon batch of a simple pale'ish belgian ale (maybe 3/4 oz. of a moderate AA hop for bitterness) let it go for a bit in primary, then add a gallon of good quality apple juice and let that go for a while in secondary. Throw it in a keg and see what we have.

I'll let you all know how it goes....

Cheers

Doesn't quite fit the summer apple beer model desired in this thread, but I came up with this gem a few years ago. I always think of posting it at work, but never have my recipe notes... From back when I was in the extract biz... Might redo it this fall as an all-grain/real fruit recipe:

Haerfest Spiced Apple Ale

7 lbs extra light dme
9 oz 40L crystal
2 oz chocolate malt
5 oz maltodextrin

1 oz Hallertau @ 60 mins

1 vanilla bean, split
1 tsp cinnamon
8 oz maple syrup
4 oz apple extract

Steep the specialty grains.

Add half the vanilla bean and half of the cinnamon at 15 mins

Add other half of vanilla and cinnamon, plus all maple syrup at flameout.

Add apple extract to taste at bottling/kegging.

More of a fall recipe here, comes off as an apple pie sort of beer. I'd brew in September to drink in late October.