Bucket Heater for Elec HLT

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RegionalChaos

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Has anyone used one of these?

http://www.alliedprecision.com/bucketheater.html

It claims to go past 150f, but some sites say it also has an auto shut off. I want to build a walk away elect HLT. I want to plug it in, set the temp I want, come back in a while and have it ready to go, sitting at the right temp. Instead of cutting a hole and installing a water heater element, I'm wondering if I can use some immersion heater or bucket heater that is already out there on the market ready to go.
 
This will work fine for heating water, at only 1000w it will take a while and work better if the vessel is insulated (cooler perhaps). I would guess it would take 2-3 hours to raise tap to sparge temp for 5 gallons. Best if put on a simple / cheap appliance/lighting timer, that way it would be ready when you are, and you would not be waiting.

I believe the auto shut off feature is to avoid running dry and being a fire hazard??? Not really positive???
 
1000W is quite weak. 60F to 170F in 5 gallons, on a great day..... 85 minutes, not horrible
 
Are they limited?


That's one of the things I'd like to find out. Some sites say they have an autoshut off, others say you can go to boil, so I don't know what triggers the auto shut off. That's part of the reason I'm asking. I know 1000W would be weak, but if they work easy out of the box maybe drop in two?
 
That's one of the things I'd like to find out. Some sites say they have an autoshut off, others say you can go to boil, so I don't know what triggers the auto shut off. That's part of the reason I'm asking. I know 1000W would be weak, but if they work easy out of the box maybe drop in two?

I know a cpl guys here have gotten them and sent them back, maybe they will chime in as to why.
 
I have one that I used a couple times like wilserbrewer suggested. I hooked it up to an appliance timer, and set it to turn on around 45 minutes before I got home. When I got home, it was very close to dough in temperature, and I finished heating up to temperature using gas.

I can check the manual when I get home, but again, I think wilser is right, and the shutoff is to prevent it running dry.
 
Probably work fine if coupled w/ a temp controller....provided you stir the water, and give it plenty of time in an insulated vessel.

You just really don't want to wait for 1000 watts...like watching grass grow i imagine.

On a simple timer, I would err on the overheat side, and then temper down to temp w/ cool water.
 
I have one in my garage right now. It does not work. It warmed my water to around 140, if my memory is correct. I bought it through an Amazon seller. They told me to keep it and refunded my money. I think I'm going to use the cord for my diy heater.
 
Thanks for the feedback. Largely what I was looking for. I think the difference between this and a heat stick would be that I wouldn't have to assemble this. Instead of a heat stick, I'd probably just rather install an element in the kettle.
 
FYI, I just bought one and use it to heat my HLT. The HLT is a 50 qt Marine Ice Cube cooler. I have it on a timer and fill the HLT the night before I brew.

Here's some data:

1. I initially tested it out with 10 gallons of 44 F tap water in the cooler. The power cord kept the lid from closing completely during the test. I wanted to do some testing before boring a hole through the lid for the power cord. I could heat the water at a rate of 30 deg per hour which isn't very fast, but I don't care as that's what the timer is for. It got to 185 F and I shut it down, but it was continuing to heat. I think it would make it to boiling if given more time. It may be able to heat at a faster rate with the lid fully closed. A lot of heat was escaping that could have been retained. This could make a significant difference. I will test again and report back.

2. Next I used it for an actual brew session and it worked just fine. I heated another 10 gallons in the HLT and used part of this as my strike water cooling it some by blending with cold tap water. I had set the timer for 4:30 AM and I started brewing at about 10:00 AM. I need to do another test now that I have the hole bored in the lid and can close it fully. This will give me a better handle on how fast I can heat the water.

3. The automatic shut off feature is intended to shut the heater off should it run dry. The shutoff is above the boiling point of water, so as long as you have a well insulated vessel, you should be able to reach boiling temperatures if you allow enough time.

4. The Bucket Heater is rated at 1,000 watts which IIRC would draw about 10 amps. The point is that you will need a heavy duty three-prong type timer that can handle the high amperage. An ordinary two-prong lamp timer won't cut it. Home Depot has the heavy duty timers for about $11.00, so they are not very expensive or hard to find.

Bottom line is that it works very well so long as you allow enough time and the key to that is planning ahead and using a timer. Keep in mind that you will want to use a heavy duty extension cord for this also.

I give the Bucket Heater a thumbs up.
 
Thanks for the feedback catt22! I think I've got some b-day cash headed my way, and I'm trying to figure out how to best use some of it for brewery upgrades!
 
Thanks for the feedback catt22! I think I've got some b-day cash headed my way, and I'm trying to figure out how to best use some of it for brewery upgrades!

Glad to be of some assistance. I just filled the HLT with 44 F tap water for another test run. I am monitoring the temp with a digital thermocouple thermometer and I started a timer to keep track of the heating rate. I need this info myself for future brews. I have a hole bored through the lid for the power cord and a thermowell installed for the temp probe. I probably won't take it all the way to boiling as I am mostly interested in the rate. I'll let it go for three or four hours and see where it's at. That should yield an approximate rate per hour capability in the insulated HLT.
 
arturo7, about 30 bucks. Pol, got a link to the formula?

Well 1BTU will raise a pound of water 1F in one hour. 1kW is 3412 BTUs if memory serves. I use a simple spreadsheet. Give me start and end temp and quantity in gallons and I can tell you in a matter of seconds how long.
 
Update on the Bucket Heater:

1. Running at 936 watts
2. Drawing 8.2 amps
3. Heated 10 gallons in a 50 qt Marine Ice Cube cooler at a rate of 43 deg F/per hour
with the cooler lid closed (power cord feeds through a drilled hole in the lid)
4. Heating rate monitored with a digital thermocouple thermometer via a thermowell
into cooler.

As you can see, keeping the lid closed on the cooler was a big improvement in the heating rate. So in summary, I would say it would probably take between 2-1/2 and 4 hours to heat tap water to 180 F in a well insulated and covered vessel depending primarily on how cold your tap water is initially. Not bad at all IMO.
 
That is a good cooler. I am getting 67 minutes with 936W to heat 10g 43F in one hour at 100% eff. mathematically.
 
Dunno what might be causing the discrpency. The thermowell is positioned near the bottom of the cooler (about 2 inches off the bottom) and I'm measuring the 936 watt power consumption with a Kill-A-Watt meter. The heater is rated at 1000 watts, but I guess that's a rounded number. I think the water in the cooler should be getting fairly well mixed by convection currents. It's still running and I'm going to see if it will get up to boiling. I'll keep checking on the progress and I'll post an update later.
 
Dunno what might be causing the discrpency. The thermowell is positioned near the bottom of the cooler (about 2 inches off the bottom) and I'm measuring the 936 watt power consumption with a Kill-A-Watt meter. The heater is rated at 1000 watts, but I guess that's a rounded number. I think the water in the cooler should be getting fairly well mixed by convection currents. It's still running and I'm going to see if it will get up to boiling. I'll keep checking on the progress and I'll post an update later.

Did your cooler also start at 44*F? Maybe some heat transfer from the (maybe room temp?) cooler to the water at the early stages helped a tad?
 
60 minutes, 67... that is close enough...

1000W rated at 120VAC, but if your line voltage is a little less than 120VAC (116VAC), you will have a reduction
 
Did your cooler also start at 44*F? Maybe some heat transfer from the (maybe room temp?) cooler to the water at the early stages helped a tad?

The cooler was at the garage temp of about 57 degrees. The tap water was at 44 F. I filled the cooler to 10 gallons, started the heater and waited until the water temp reached 50 F then started the clock. I figured this would eliminate the thermal mass influence of the cooler and give us a better estimate of the average rate of temperature gain.
 
60 minutes, 67... that is close enough...

1000W rated at 120VAC, but if your line voltage is a little less than 120VAC (116VAC), you will have a reduction

The line voltage is just shy of 115 v.
 
Update again:

It's been running for 3 hours and the temp is up to 150 F. The average heating rate has dropped to about 38 F per hour and it's now obvious why. The cooler lid is quite warm, so a lot of heat is escaping the cooler through the lid. The rate of loss increased as the delta between the temperature of the water and the ambient air temp increased. This is destined to get worse as the temp climbs. It's becoming clear that coolers (with uninsulated lids) can keep things cool better than they can keep things hot. Heat rises, duh.

So, the next thing I need to do is inject some foam into the cooler lid to improve the lid insulation. That should help considerably. I'm still heading to a boil if possible, but another test will be required after insulating the lid.
 
Update on the Bucket Heater:

1. Running at 936 watts
2. Drawing 8.2 amps
3. Heated 10 gallons in a 50 qt Marine Ice Cube cooler at a rate of 43 deg F/per hour
with the cooler lid closed (power cord feeds through a drilled hole in the lid)
4. Heating rate monitored with a digital thermocouple thermometer via a thermowell
into cooler.

As you can see, keeping the lid closed on the cooler was a big improvement in the heating rate. So in summary, I would say it would probably take between 2-1/2 and 4 hours to heat tap water to 180 F in a well insulated and covered vessel depending primarily on how cold your tap water is initially. Not bad at all IMO.

Thanks for the update Catt22! It's always nice to get observational info. Do you think you could easily fit 2 of those in the cooler?
 
Thanks for the update Catt22! It's always nice to get observational info. Do you think you could easily fit 2 of those in the cooler?

Yes, no problem at all. Keep in mind that running two of these will exceed the load for a typical 15 amp circuit. You would need to run off of two separate circuits unless you happen to have a 20 amp circuit that you can hook up to.
 
Well, it did reach a boil. Not a roiling boil, but it was boiling for sure. I don't know at what time it reached the boiling point as I was not standing over it when it did, but it was less than five hours for sure. How much less I don't know. I'll give it another test run after I insulate the lid which may not happen for a week or so. I'll post the results when I get to it.
 
I could see using this to supplement energy when trying to get a full 6 gal boil going on the stovetop.

How long are these things ? Doed it reach all the way to the bottom of a 8 gal kettle, or do u need to dangle them over the side ?
 
I could see using this to supplement energy when trying to get a full 6 gal boil going on the stovetop.

How long are these things ? Doed it reach all the way to the bottom of a 8 gal kettle, or do u need to dangle them over the side ?

FOLLOWUP:

Just got 2 of these delivered today ... doing a test with 4 gals (simulating what the mashtun might have for a typical 5 G mash)...1 heater in 48 qt Rubbermaid ... started at 44 degrees .. 96 after 1 hour...132 atfer 90 mins

I think this will work fine .. the second heater will be for HLT ...

glad to see that the lights didn't dim when I fired it up !

Next experiment will be how long 2 of these will take to boil 6 gallons ..

What is the best way to regulate if the boil is too vigorous ?
 
What is the best way to regulate if the boil is too vigorous ?

Sorry Bill, but at that kind of horsepower, I think that is the least of your worries...I predict 2000 watts will make a nice "medium boil" in 6 gallons...will take a while and might help to use the lid to get there.

Just unplug one of two to temper the boil if it is too vigorous.
 
OK on 2K watt boil...I can be patient !

This is going to be fun.

Just finished getting the 4 gals up to 165..took abt 2.5 hours.. only regret not brewing right now.

not sure I like the smell that comes from the Rubbermaid cooler .. hope that isn't PVC's in the air .. almost like burning rubber smell in the steam ..

May change plan to use stainless for HLT, and transfer to cooler-Mashtun ..the steady 2 hours of heat may be outside the boundaries for the cooler...

Either way, I like the way I can brew safely indoors, without having to drill a hole in my pot or wire up 220 circuit. I have 2 sep 110 circuits in the basement..
 
If you are able to reach a boil in 6 gallons with 2000W, which I am hesitant to say that you can (no insulation?) Here is the breakdown.

Not including heat loss, after you reach a boil:

970 BTUs required to boil off 1 POUND of water.

2kW is 6,800 BTUs

6,800 BTUs /970 BTUs = 7 pounds

So you will boil off less than a gallon in 1 hour with 2kw.

The problem is that your numbers posted from heating in a cooler show that you are less than 50% eff with the bucket heater trying to heat in the cooler. So it is possible that you will boil off less than .5 gal even with 2kW in the boil kettle due to heat losses.

From 160F to a boil in 6 gallons will require 2500 BTUs, according to your previous numbers posted, this will take 45 min. to accomplish. It will be a simmer when you do get there, and you will boil off .4 gallons in 60 minutes, according to your test #s, no worries about being too vigorous.

To boil off 1.5 gallons in an hour requires 12,100 BTUs of energy. If you are boiling for 60 minutes, this is a MINIMUM of 4kW, or 4000W of energy, for example
 
Much better setup tonight ... put single bucket heater, fully immersed into a 4 gal SS pot..no lid, no insulation...3.5 gals in the pot (before, the heater was 85% immersed ,)

First hour and up to 147 from 44 ... no smell..heater is a perfect fit for the pot ..

Planning brew day -- maybe a 5 gal ceramic pot for the sparge water (figure I will need abt 4.5 more gals, but maybe we can dip into the brewing acct for a new HLT.

I will let the single heater go until a boil ... update on the time required ..
 
Max water temp was 191 ... had to go to bed after 3+ hours...one bucket heater will work, but 2 wld be bettter.

insulation will help - can I get the foil insulation at HD ?
 
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