created a new recipe today "creamy oat and caramel apple cider"

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Daze

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well I started it today but I have been thinking about it for weeks and reading a bunch of other results using similar techniques so I have a fairly good idea of how it will turn out.

Recipe Type: Apple Cider
Yeast: Montrachet
Yeast Starter: no
Batch Size (Gallons): 1
Original Gravity: 1.065 (calculated)

Ingredients
4 12oz cans 100% natural apple concentrate
48oz water
1 tsp malic acid
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
Montrachet wine yeast
1/2 tsp yeast nutrients
1 quart "oat milk" *
2 cups home made caramelized sugar syrup**

I don't like chemicals so you won't here me talk abut a sanitizing solution other than good old fashioned boiling water. I started by emptying the 4 cans of concentrate in to a stock pot along with 48oz of warm filtered water (warm to help the concentrate melt). After the concentrate dissolved I took an SG reading and came up with 1.085 or a PA of some where in the 11% area. I then added 1 tsp of acid blend and tasted the juice to see how it was. Fantastic!! strong apple flavors with a slight tartness, a little overly sweet but the yeast will fix that :) I then added 1 quart of "oat milk" and tasted it again. same flavor as before with a slight nutty under tone and more importantly a creamy mouth feel. I then placed a candy thermometer in the solution and heated it up to 170º F While it was heating I took a 1 gallon glass jug and filled it with boiling water and set it on the counter to sterilize while the apple oat solution came up to temp. once the solution was up to temp I added yeast nutrient and then dumped the hot water out of the jug and filled the bottle with the apple solution. After it cools down to the point where the jug is warm to the touch I will add the pectic enzyme and tomorrow I will pitch the yeast. After it ferments out dry DRY DRY I will add the caramel syrup and bottle. From there I will check the CO2 levels daily until the correct CO2 has ben reached and I will pasteurize.

other notes
At the top it says the SG is 1.065 (calculated) but in the directions it said my SG was 1.085 That is because the solids in the oat milk will trow off your hygrometer readings so you need to measure before you add the oat milk and then multiply the 85 from the 1.085 * .75 and the number you get replaces the 85 in 1.085. so the calculated result is 1.065. this number also coincides with the calculations I did based on the number grams of sugar in 4 cans of concentrate in 1 gallon of total solution. Also the SG would indicate an ABV of some where in the 8.5% range which is IMHO a little high. This was done on purpose as the oat milk will produce about 1" of sediment and so extra water will need to be added to top off after the first racking. This should bring the final ABV done closer to 6-7% where I want it

* oat milk
2 cups raw quaker oats
6-8 cups of water

place the oats on a cookie sheet and bake at 325º for 20 minus. remove from oven and let them cool, then place them in a sealed paper bag for a few days. Once the oats have rested bring 6 cups of water to a boil and add the 2 cups of oats. reduce the heat to a simmer and let sit for at least an hour. Once the oats have had a chance to break down use a sieve to strain out and discard the chunks. You may have to add more water to get the "milk" to separate from the oat solids. What will be left is a some what thin (kind of like olive oil in thickness) white liquid. Return the oat milk to the heat and simmer on medium until you have a 1 quart of liquid. then pore it in to a preheated quart jar, put a lid on it and allow it to cool. once cool it can be placed in the fridge until you are ready to use it. prior to using it run it through a straining cloth. when cold it should be a little thicker (kind of like hot gravy)

**caramelized sugar syrup

The following is my own version of a caramel syrup illustrated in this thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

Really the only difference between mine and his is I use white and brown sugar and I don't use DAP. By not using the DAP you are required to heat the sugar up hotter to get the same effect.

To make the caramel syrup take 1 lb white sugar and 1 lb brown sugar and 1 cup of water. Mix together and bring the mix to a boil over medium heat. Using a candy thermometer, stop the boil at 300º F by SLOWLY adding a about a cup of hot water while gently stirring the solution. Be careful as the mix will spit out hot bits. After adding the water you will need to dissolve the syrup by stirring gently until the solution reaches the stage called soft ball (240F). This is when the syrup is done. Stop the cooking by submerging the pan in cool water or by transferring the syrup to a preheated mason jar. The final product should have a nice dark brown color similar to a dark beer and should have a strong caramel flavor but should not have a burned flavor. Make sure you taste it after it cools because if it tastes burnt it will ruin your cider.


I will keep everyone updated on how this cider turns out
 
here are a few pix of my "oat milk" and cider.

The first one is the oat milk. At the top there is about 1" of liquid. That liquid is really what you want. everyday the mix would settle a little more and I am sure had I left it in the fridge long enough the top half would have been liquid and the bottom half would have been fairly solid.
oatmilk.jpg

The reason I did not let it settle out and just use the liquid from the top is because I wanted to impart at much of the nutty flavor as I could, plus even though the oats are non-fermentable, I figured it would give them a little something extra to chew on (nutrient wise). You may also notice in the picture that the oat milk has little dark flecks in it. These were oat solids that were completely filtered out when I strained it through a cotton cloth.

Here is a pic of the oat milk and cider in the jug just after I added the pectic enzyme. as you can see it is a bit hazy and there is well over 1" of sediment in the bottom. This morning when pitched the yeast the juice was about 95% clear and the sediment at the bottom had compacted to be just under 1" As it ferments the oat solids should continue to drop out and the solids at the bottom should continue to settle reducing its thickness.
cider.jpg

The only other thing I don't like at the moment is the color. The oat milk liquid is yellow in color and has given my cider an orange look. I am not to worried about it as the caramel syrup will be a dark brown and will have a drastic effect on the color of the final product.
 
Very cool. I've been playing with simple ciders lately. I started trying cider right after peak cider time locally. Of course. So I've been playing with different juices to get some ideas on what's good added, what yeasts I like, etc.

You're a little more creative than I am.

I'm really curious to know how the caramel affects the flavor. My wife loves caramel apples so I wonder if she'd like that. There's also a chance she just likes really sweet apples, though, and it won't help at all.
 
Does your homemade caramel mix nicely or leave stringy goopy delicious bits? I've been thinking about using a homemade syrup like yours for backsweetening before bottling but I want it to mix thoroughly.
 
Does your homemade caramel mix nicely or leave stringy goopy delicious bits? I've been thinking about using a homemade syrup like yours for backsweetening before bottling but I want it to mix thoroughly.

the trick to getting a sugar syrup to dissolve is to thin it before you add it to final product. In the case of this batch of cider I will ether mix some fresh apple juice with it first to thin it out, or I will use some of my cider to thin it out. once it is well mixed with the thinning liquid I can simply pore it in the main batch of cider and stir.
 
Two potatoes are standing on a street corner. How do you tell which one is the hooker?


..... The one that says Idaho. :cross:



That joke just never seems to get old.

Hmmm, I read your joke and though, "That is terrible" but at the same time found myself laughing and wanting to read it again... Ahhh, hurray for corny jokes!:fro:

OK, back on topic!

Nice looking brew! I might have to try my hand at this recipie someday! But of course I want to try my hand at everything... so it might have to wait a bit! lol
 
As a side note, nice to see a fellow Idahoan.

:off: How's it going? Yeah, I've seen a bunch on the forum from Moscow and Coeur D'Alene, but it seems like the only drinkers in southern Idaho are rednecks with cheap bourbon and mormons trying to hide their "hard" ice tea. Not much market for nice beer or interest in making your own. :(
 
Yeah, they must stay off the 'net. We've got about 3 decent brew stores here in the Treasure Valley. Also, there is another very local brewing forum that they may go to, but not as much good info on ciders over there.

I'll admit I'm not much of a beer maker (1 pale ale from extracts) but I am several batches of cider in and several batches of fruit wine. Also got 6 gallons worth of Syrah grapes from a local grower last fall that are aging away in my cellar (cough, closet). I think I'll have to do that annually.
 
update, after almost a week the sediment in the bottom is shrinking. I am sure what is happening is the "oat milk" is compressing and any fluids adding bulk to it are rising to the top of the sediment. This thickening and settling of the oat milk layer should make racking easy. Cant weight to see how this one ends up.
 
racked it today. there was only 1/2" of oat sediment. I took a reading and the SG was 1.010 so it should be done soon. I will weight until it clears than I will add the caramel syrup. I will update you as it progresses.
 
The cider has almost fermented out and has started to clear so I made my caramel syrup tonight. Turned out great!!! it is such a dark brown that it is almost black. The color should make for a nice dark brow cider. The flavor is fantastic, it is everything I could have hoped for!! strong caramel notes which should make my caramel apple cider about perfect.
 
I am very interested to see the color of the finished cider. My first batch is almost ready for bottling now. I made it with dark brown sugar and Molasses for a nice rich amber color.

I have to get a couple gallon jugs for some experimental batches. I really like the oat milk idea.
 
I am very interested to see the color of the finished cider.

Interesting side note on the color I have this batch of cider sitting next to another gallon of cider made with the same apple juice concentrate. The only ingredient differences between the two are the oat milk in one and the yeast I used. Even though they started out the same color the oat milk batch is about half as dark as the non oat milk batch. I don't know if this was because the oat solids absorbed the color or if it has to do with the yeast (light one is using Montrachet where as the dark one is "domesticated wild apple yeast") As soon as the oat milk batch is done I will wash the yeast and start another batch with out the oat milk so it will be interesting to see if it comes out light or dark.
cidercolor.jpg
 
tasted the cider today and took an SG reading. SG is at 1.02 so it is almost done. tastes good but a bit on the sour side, but I planned on that when I added the extra acid. the sour should play nicely against the caramel sweetening.
 
Very cool idea! I'm going to give this a try tomorrow. I am using fresh pressed flash pasteurized cider instead of concentrate. What is the reason to heat the juice to 170?

Edit: aslo, did you happen to take a pH reading?
 
The 170º was done for a couple of reasons. First I don't like using chemicals and I like to start with a sterol solution so I did it to pasteurize what I was working on. 140º would have been hot enough, but I also wanted the oat and apple to blend a little more the heat facilitates that. As to the PH I didn't take a reading but I can say I made it "green apple" tart. Some of the best caramel apples I have ever had have been with either macs or granny smiths so I wanted to recreate that same tart profile. This next fall I am going to make another batch and use macs from the trees at my dads. should be good :)
 
Thanks! I have my batch fermenting away and it looks great. Do you have any suggestions based off of how yours is turning out?
 
not really. Mine is almost done but is still just bubbling along. It is fairly cold in my basement so all of my wines and ciders are simply crawling along at a snails pace. As soon as it begins to clear (could be any day now) I will back-sweeten/prime and bottle.
 
BOTTLED TODAY!!!!!!

The cider is very tart but is as I expected. I added 2 cups of my caramel syrup which makes the cider about 2/3 as sweet as apple juice before it is fermented. I know a lot of you like your cider only slightly sweet but because of all the tartness I needed the extra sugar. Even young, it tastes fantastic!!!!!!! You get the tartness, much like a green or mac apple, you get the sweet caramel playing off that tartness and the best part is the creamy texture from the oats. I new the oats would add body and give a much better mouth feel but I never expected something this rich, luxurious, and smooth. This cider has as much, if not more body and creamy mouth feel than a dark beer. I could not be happier with the result!!!

The caramel also added lots of color. Rather than the cider being a pail amber it is now a rich golden brown. Basically it is the color that the apple juice started with before the yeast stripped out some of the color.

I am also really glad I used 4 cans of concentrate rather than the 2.5 cans required to make 1 gallon of juice. This gave me lots of extra apple flavor as well as an ABV of about 7.5 without having to add any pure sugar.

The cider is bottle carbonating right now and in a few days I will pasteurize and then give it at least a month to age. I can only imagine how much better this cider is going to get once it is carbonated and aged.
 
This recipe is on my next to do list. Still letting the emu cider age a bit but getting the twitch to bottle and drink now that the weather is turning warmer. Just need to find some fresh pressed juice to work with now... And a spare carboy.
 
Awesome! Very exciting to hear as mine is close to the end of fermentation. Thanks for the updates.
 
Interesting; think I'd get the same, or at least very similar result by using flaked oats instead of the oat milk?
Regards, GF.
 
Then I shall brew up a version of this on Saturday. Thanks for sharing yourprogress/recipes/outcome on this. Next time I'm in Kalispell, I'l buy you a beer. :mug:
Regards, GF.
 
It only took 10 days to get this brew to carbonate up. I am not surprised as the yeast was Montrachet and I had the bottles sitting in a case on the floor in my basement. That Montrachet yeast does not like the cold. With the CO2 levels where I wanted them I pasteurized yesterday and will now let the cider age at least a couple of weeks before cracking one open. Will report back with pix in a couple of weeks.
 
cracked one open last night. It was really good, very "creamy" nice apple flavor, but still young. This cider was tart which is what I wanted, but I wish I had used malic acid alone instead of acid blend, there was in my mind to much of a citrus note. Other than that I was very pleased. Should get way better with age. If I was ranking it on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best cider I ever had, I would give it a 6 right now and I am guessing an 8 when it has aged. The reason I am guessing an 8 once it ages is because it will still loose a point for the acid blend instead of malic acid AND loose a point for using juice from concentrate rather then fresh pressed apple juice. The recipe has the potential to be out of this world give a few ingredient changes.
 
Glad to hear it turned out good.
I am bottling my first caramel batch (280deg.) tonight.
Picking up 10 gallons of fresh pressed tomorrow to start up a batch of graff and another batch of caramel (320deg. this time.)
I think I'll grab another gallon to do a test batch with your oat milk. I'm using the Lalvin 71B-1122.

I forgot to ask you, when you made your caramel syrup what temperature did you take that sugar up to?
Looks real dark, 360-370?
 
Daze: Ever thought of toasting those oats, or using oat malt? Maybe adding oats (toasted or not) in in a hopsack to get more oat flavour? Just a couple of thoughts on a rainy day.
Regards, GF.
 
That is what I used. I toasted the oats but I still can not taste them... but that is a good thing I really don't like the taste of oats :)
 
Any reason why you couldn't do a cereal mash with the toasted oats and apple juice?

I was considering throwing a few pounds of toasted oats, some brown sugar and about 5 gallons of Apple Juice in the mash tun and let'n the RIMs system hold it at about 125 for an hour or so.

Thoughts?
 
I was thinking of doing something similar but just doing it in a pot on the stove. Will see on the next batch.
 
have you started this version? how is it going?

Yes, brewed up a version last weekend & it's been fermenting at a steady 62* F. I think this is going to be a smooth, silky brew.
Thanks to Daze for sharing his recipe. :mug:
Regards, GF.
 
The important thing to remember is it has to bee cooked to get the silky texture. just adding oats to the brew with out heat will simply cause them to soak up some of your appley goodness. I am actually going to be doing an experiment with oat flower that I made in the blender. I think it will allow me to get a creamier result with less oats and less sediment. Will report back after I try it.
 
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