This is my dream...

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Dude

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Honestly, this is all you'd need to get things going in a small brewpub.
I'd upgrade to 10bbl though.

4440.jpg


5bbl system

I love the copper....I want it!

4 years until I can actually start venturing into something like this...4 years. Can you imagine?
 
Ouch.

It only took 5 minutes and 1 post for someone to TRY to squelch your dream.

ETA: Added the words, "TRY to". Dude is made from stronger stuff.
 
Cheyco's in a pissy mood today, don't know what's up with him...

Dude, live the dream, bro! You go to sleep dreaming about a brewpub rather than running a micro, I take it?
 
olllllo said:
Ouch.

It only took 5 minutes and 1 post for someone to squelch your dream.



Wow, I feel terrible.

Sorry Dude, let me make it up to you by being the first to sponsor you in the 'Dude's Skatin' for the 5bbl - Skate-a-thon'

How's $0.05 per lap sound?
 
the_bird said:
You go to sleep dreaming about a brewpub rather than running a micro, I take it?

Definitely. and well, I'm also going by things I've heard. Vinnie Cilurzo said the restaurant fuels his beer production. If I made good enough beer to be worthy--then future expansion would be possible. :D

I love food as much as I love beer though--I'd love to be able to do this. And I'd keep that brewery behind all glass so everyone could see the process. Take the loyal customers back there for a sip of the newest beers....make them empty the mashtun...you know, stuff like that.
 
the_bird said:
You go to sleep dreaming about a brewpub rather than running a micro, I take it?

That sounds more attracive to me (as long as we're dreaming)

The main nightmare, as I understand it, for micros is distribution. Brewpub avoids that issue. Plus, I love food and cooking and wouldn't mind being involved in that part of the operation as well.
 
Have you thought about taking some courses in brewing (not that you don't know how to brew... :D). Like, that school up in Vermont that's really well-regarded, or the program that Chimone's doing?

How much longer until your government obligations are over?
 
They set up the Michigan Brewery just off of an interstate, serving only beer and free peanuts, for quite a while. No music, about 5 tables tables and 10 stools at the bar. Word spread.

Later, just to be able to put a State Sign on the highway to advertise the Brewery's existance.

Example-

(FOOD- This Exit-
-McDonalds
-Burger King
- Michigan Brewery)

So they started to serve chili and simple sandwiches, with chips and a pickle.

Don't worry about the big picture; if the beer is good, and you have a good location....you're there!
 
Also, yes I'll be taking some courses here shortly....right now the governement won't pay for the school I want to attend, so once I get that worked out--OH YEAH.

and orph--one of the best things about my brewpub...is I WILL NOT serve BMC or anything close to it. I may have a guest tap of another craft brew, but definitley no sh!te. My buddies (BMC drinkers no less) say that is a mistake. I say, (as a bartender) "well, we don't have that but why don't you try this blonde ale. It is more flavorful, it has no fake foaming agents or anything else other than water, grain, hops and yeast. If you don't like it, it is on the house." I guarantee 99% of those people will be hooked.
 
the_bird said:
So tell us, Dude, where is this brewpub of your to be located? Virginia, or you moving back home?

Can I give that info out? :D

Totally hypothetically, I'm leaning towards Omaha. I have some other interested parties that will want to be part of it.

I consider Omaha a second home actually.....
 
I was just about to start a thread similar to this one but I'll just add to this one instead. I'm sitting at work thinking about how much I'd rather be brewing and working for myself. I think I can make it happen in about 2 years, but we'll see how that goes....maybe in the near future we can leverage off each other for tips/ideas etc...I'm nowhere near Omaha, so we won't have to worry about competition!
Live your dream man, I like the copper too and I'll probably end up with a 10bbl system as well. But I'll be looking into building a S/S system myself....I've got a few handy friends and we should be able to build it cheaper than buying the used stuff.
Good luck and happy brewing!
 
Dude, you will be in some stiff waters in Omaha anymore with the Upstream Brewing company and Lazlos who owns Empyrean Ales. Both of those places as you know serve excellent pub fare.

Now, a spin on the food, how about a Wood Fired brick pizza joint that is a micro as well? Calzones.......hey, im onto something. Let me know if you need anyhelp as i am in the area and can scout things out.

Speaking of the Upstream, i will be in Omaha tonight and perhaps we will stop and eat there.
 
Dude, I'm with ya.

Some day, I'm going to open a brew pub and serve fine brews with fantastic German food and BBQ. I've got backers too. It's just a matter of time...

It'll be food first and beer second though.
 
Reverend JC said:
Dude, you will be in some stiff waters in Omaha anymore with the Upstream Brewing company and Lazlos who owns Empyrean Ales. Both of those places as you know serve excellent pub fare.

Now, a spin on the food, how about a Wood Fired brick pizza joint that is a micro as well? Calzones.......hey, im onto something. Let me know if you need anyhelp as i am in the area and can scout things out.

Speaking of the Upstream, i will be in Omaha tonight and perhaps we will stop and eat there.

Rev..I disagree. It is getting so blown up over by Millard, Gretna areas right now--that is the place to do it and is staving for a brewpub. Upstream is too pricey and that drives people away.

I want a blue-collar atmosphere and blue collar food and beer. I want anyone to be able to go in there and eat and drink fairly cheap.
 
Dude said:
I want a blue-collar atmosphere and blue collar food and beer. I want anyone to be able to go in there and eat and drink fairly cheap.

Sounds like BMC and fast food. ;)
 
Dude said:
I want a blue-collar atmosphere and blue collar food and beer. I want anyone to be able to go in there and eat and drink fairly cheap.

couldn't of said it better myself. you're the man
 
Dude said:
I want a blue-collar atmosphere and blue collar food and beer. I want anyone to be able to go in there and eat and drink fairly cheap.

Sounds great--I think the problem to overcome is that drinking good beer (and caring about non-BMC beer) is still viewed as kindof a sissified, gentrified, and/or metrosexual thing for a man to do in the US, where real men allegedly drink Bud.
 
cweston said:
Sounds great--I think the problem to overcome is that drinking good beer (and caring about non-BMC beer) is still viewed as kindof a sissified, gentrified, and/or metrosexual thing for a man to do in the US, where real men allegedly drink Bud.

Really? That's not my experience at all. Unless by 'real men', you mean guys that have one baseball cap for work and a nice one when they're going out.
 
Two thoughts.

First, one thing I learned in a marketing class is that the mentality of "this town ain't big enough for the both of us..." is often just flat out wrong. Do you think Coke would sell as much Coke without Pepsi? Sometimes competitors don't just steal marketshare from each other, they actually increase the client base through awareness of the product. The first thing I would do if I were opening a brewpub in a town with a second or third brewpub is to formally challenge them to a duel. Here's how I imagine it would work....

The two of you throw $1000 into a pot. Use this money to send out mass mailers with a "casino-style" chip inside. The envelope would say something like: "This town ain't big enough for the both of us.. who's better?" The inside would include a token and a coupon for a free appetizer or beer or something. Let them use a coupon at both establishments and put the token into the piggy bank at the establishment of their choice.

By the end of the competition, you will both have more customers. And, if you are too similar in feel and attitude, one of you will know who needs to upgrade their facilities. 6 months later, send out a mailer that says, "We've heard your suggestions! Come see the NEW brewpub..." I doubt there would be a loser in that competition.


Second advice. There's nothing wrong with serving BMC. In fact, I would serve at least 40 different bottled beers. They would cost a bit more than my own, but if someone wants a BMC, I'd give them one... but they'd still be drinking it out of a glass so nobody would know the difference anyway. Why alienate people? Certainly educate them, talk about the bad aspects of macroswill, talk up your own beer, offer free samples even... but at the end of the day, wouldn't you rather be seen as the place where you can get any beer on the planet, rather than the place that sells 5 beers you can't get anywhere else?

Personally, I think I'd rather be the place where you can get any beer on the planet. Be the Temple of Beer.
 
Toot said:
Second advice. There's nothing wrong with serving BMC. In fact, I would serve at least 40 different bottled beers. They would cost a bit more than my own, but if someone wants a BMC, I'd give them one... but they'd still be drinking it out of a glass so nobody would know the difference anyway. Why alienate people? Certainly educate them, talk about the bad aspects of macroswill, talk up your own beer, offer free samples even... but at the end of the day, wouldn't you rather be seen as the place where you can get any beer on the planet, rather than the place that sells 5 beers you can't get anywhere else?

Personally, I think I'd rather be the place where you can get any beer on the planet. Be the Temple of Beer.

The first idea for the competition was great IMO. This one I'm not so sure on. The problem with serving BMC is that 9 of 10 beers you sell will be BMC and there won't be much profit on it. Whereas you can brew your own for pretty cheap when doing it in such large bulk quantities and actually make a decent coin when someone buys one of your in-house brews. I see your point in that it may discourage people from coming, but I think if you are taking a run at the brewpub/micro business you need to go at it 100%; and exclude the macroswillers...

In my experience the brewpub/micro that serves only its own beers does better than the brewpubs around here that serve 3-4 of their own, as well as other bottles.

Example: Appalachian brewing in Harrisburg, PA (and Camp Hill; oh and Gettysburg) only serves its house beers. 7-8 of them, $4 or so a pint. Imagine the profit on those pints if you are making it for cents per pint. They Must make a pretty nice penny because its expanded from one location to three and all three locations are pretty classy, jazzy joints (albeit I did have very poor service for the first time the other evening). Anyway, great atmosphere, great food, great beers, great profit...

On the other hand there is a brewpub in Carlisle, PA called Market Cross (or is it Cross and Market?) that serves 3-4 or so of its house beers and about 60 other bottles including marcoswill. Well, let's just say the Market Cross is not the classiest, jazziest place to eat, it's not expanded to three locations, and 9 times out of 10 I hear someone order they order some BMC product. It's not to say I don't like this establishment because I love it, but I'm also in the minority when I drink or eat there. I like the house brews, I love the 20-30 belgians and import bottles, and I love the 30+ microbottles they carry. I often check the dates on the micros/belgians I buy there and its amazing how many are very near and/or 1-2 months past their "drink by" date because not many people drink some of the choics. It's also rare I hear someone order the house beers which are only on tap... Generally, they just don't seem to be doing as good of a business as the places selling only their own and no macroswill or competition micros. One thing is for sure IMO. If you are going to brew your own and attempt to sell it, don't serve up another micro that brews better beer (or is perceived to brew better beer)...

Anything is possible and I'm sure with hard work and dedication you could serve your own as well as a "temple of other beers", but I think its better to go at it all or nothing. Even if you have to explain to people that your house pilsener is a very light drinking lager "SIMILAR TO" fill in macro here, I think its better than serving both.

If you are going to serve other beers then just open a pub and sell a large variety of beers. There is a place around here whose claim to fame is serving 30 or so taps and 150+ bottles (Brewhouse Grille). However, they are not even thinking about wasting $50,000+ on brewery system to brew their own beer. There is no need. They are a "temple of beer". Great place, making a good profit on the micro movement/import beer drinking movement, but why waste the money to try to brew your own in this case? They serve anything you can dream of for the most part...
 
Dude, what you REALLY need to do is set up shop in New Mexico and bring aboard Yuri and BrewPastor as your business partners... just give them a piece of the equity in exchange for not dropping $48k on brewmaking equipment. ;)

That is one sexy beast, though. I've always wondered how many of those morebeer sells in a year...
 
Wow....this thread is awesome.... I love this discussion!

I understand the marketing aspect of selling BMC....but I'd like to be 100% craft beer. Educate people. Make them realize that a crafted ale (or lager) is better than the BMC crap. I want the dining experience to be memorable. I want people to leave and say, WOW that beer rocked! I never knew beer could taste like that!
 
There are other, more-subtle things you'd have to think about. Would you have a kids menu, for example? We've gone to lunch at the Northampton Brew Company, and it's basically been a kids-zone, with a bunch of relaxed parents enjoying a decent meal and a nice pint. But, is that what you want, or would that turn off other potential clients?

What you have to be comfortable with, though, is that the success or failure of the brewpub will ultimately have very little to do with how great (or medicore) the beer is, at least in my opinion. I think it's a given that you'll have a good, very drinkable product. People go to a particular brewpub because of where it's located, because of the food, because of the atmosphere, because of how the staff treats them - I think much more so than because your IPA is a little bit better than the one down the street. Very few people are so tuned into the absolute quality of the beer that they'll go there JUST because the beer is great. Fact is, some of the brewpubs in the area that do extremely well serve very good beer - but ultimately unexceptional, unmemorable beer - yet seem to thrive in some very competitive markets.

That's what I would worry the most about running a brewpub; is the beer REALLY going to be the focus?
 
rdwj said:
Really? That's not my experience at all. Unless by 'real men', you mean guys that have one baseball cap for work and a nice one when they're going out.

Well yeah, sort of. Dude specifically used the phrase "blue collar atmosphere." When blue-collar types think beer, I don't think they're mainly thinking smoked porter, or vanilla bourbon oak-aged imperial stout, or even IPA. It'd be a delicate balance.

It partly depends on location. The original Redhook brewery and pub in Seattle, for example, had a fairly blue-collar feel to it, partly because it was not in a gentrified neighborhood.
 
cweston said:
Well yeah, sort of. Dude specifically used the phrase "blue collar atmosphere." When blue-collar types think beer, I don't think they're mainly thinking smoked porter, or vanilla bourbon oak-aged imperial stout, or even IPA. It'd be a delicate balance.

Definitely, and that is where you'd have to be careful on what you serve.

I'd imagine we'd have 5 regular beers and a sixth seasonal on the taps. I'd always have a 1) blonde or a cream ale (for the hard core BMC drinkers), 2) a brown ale or an ESB, 3) stout or porter, 4) wheat, 5) hoppy APA or an IPA.
 
the_bird said:
There are other, more-subtle things you'd have to think about. Would you have a kids menu, for example? We've gone to lunch at the Northampton Brew Company, and it's basically been a kids-zone, with a bunch of relaxed parents enjoying a decent meal and a nice pint. But, is that what you want, or would that turn off other potential clients?

What you have to be comfortable with, though, is that the success or failure of the brewpub will ultimately have very little to do with how great (or medicore) the beer is, at least in my opinion. I think it's a given that you'll have a good, very drinkable product. People go to a particular brewpub because of where it's located, because of the food, because of the atmosphere, because of how the staff treats them - I think much more so than because your IPA is a little bit better than the one down the street. Very few people are so tuned into the absolute quality of the beer that they'll go there JUST because the beer is great. Fact is, some of the brewpubs in the area that do extremely well serve very good beer - but ultimately unexceptional, unmemorable beer - yet seem to thrive in some very competitive markets.

That's what I would worry the most about running a brewpub; is the beer REALLY going to be the focus?

No...you are right. Food comes first. But I'd spend a good portion of my focus on the beer.
 
cweston said:
Dude specifically used the phrase "blue collar atmosphere." When blue-collar types think beer, I don't think they're mainly thinking smoked porter, or vanilla bourbon oak-aged imperial stout, or even IPA. It'd be a delicate balance.

Ya, I think you're right there. But I. thinking that a blue-collar armosphere is different than a blue-collar clientele. It's cool to make it a comfortable, casual place, but I don't see many guys hanging out there after working in a mill all day or drawing a lunch crowd of construction guys.
 
rdwj said:
Ya, I think you're right there. But I. thinking that a blue-collar armosphere is different than a blue-collar clientele. It's cool to make it a comfortable, casual place, but I don't see many guys hanging out there after working in a mill all day or drawing a lunch crowd of construction guys.

I totally disagree. I'd cater specifically to that group.
 
rdwj said:
Ya, I think you're right there. But I. thinking that a blue-collar armosphere is different than a blue-collar clientele. It's cool to make it a comfortable, casual place, but I don't see many guys hanging out there after working in a mill all day or drawing a lunch crowd of construction guys.

The lunch crowd is an important one. This is where I think generating the correct atmosphere is critical. As noted above, if you are aiming to draw the "construction guys" lunch crowd, I can't imagine the place would be very classy (no offense contractors, etc.) as building or road crews generally will have paint spattered jeans, tank tops in summer, and tool belts. Heck, I'd say most of them probably eat a packed lunch on the bed of a truck because they want to get done and get home...

I know you disagree, but I can't picture it...

On the other hand, I believe to prosper it's going to have to be somewhat upscale/classy. You can still be upscale and cater to a "blue collar" crowd, it's just a fineline. Without being a little up-scale though, you won't draw the people who normally go out for lunch. Businessmen/women looking to get out of the office/cublicle/etc. because they know they'll be stuck working late and/or are just bored out of their skulls. Or taking clientele out of lunch...

Note that the beer will not be the focus at ANY (well 90%+ of) lunch, so it's going to have to be food and atmosphere. I am not a construction worker, but I can't imagine their supervisor lets them drink beers before handling the nail guns. Maybe I'm wrong...

On the kids menu note, I personally think its a must. You exclude too many possible customers if you make them find a babysitter before coming in or make their children eat ceasar salads, filet mignon, or bangers and mash... Almost all brewpubs I've been to have SOME kids menu and it has never seemed like 'kid-zone' to me at all. There are some kids there around 5-8, but before or after that, pretty much none. Further, the kids of the people who frequent brewpubs usually seem pretty well mannered to me. There are always exceptions, but this is just my observation.
 
Dude said:
I totally disagree. I'd cater specifically to that group.
The problem I see is that most of this crowd tend to drink pretty heavily when they drink and are price sensitive. That is a big reason that many people stick with BMC. If you can make a good product that is price competitive with BMC at a blue collar bar then you main gain a market through word of mouth.
Cleveland is a very blue collar city but the customers at the local brewpubs appear to be predominately white collar.
However a good brew pub with that atmosphere is likely to attract a good customer base even if many are office workers.
Craig
 
In my opinion, even "blue-collar folk" have a white-collar side to them every now and then and you will attract them to your brewpub if the atmosphere, pricing, etc. is spot-on.

For example, although I can't picture you drawing a large crowd of construction workers for lunch (I can see a large crowd of white collar business-people), even some of these people like to dress up a little (jeans and a button-down oxford is dressed up in this case) and go out on a Friday evening, Saturday lunch, or Saturday evening. All you have to do is make it a casual, yet upscale atmosphere and I think you will win over the best of both worlds. In my opinion, if the blue collar dude isn't willing to throw on jeans and a nice oxford, sweater, or even long-sleeve (henley/thermal/whatever the hell you want to call it) or short sleeve classy, solid colored shirt and swing by for a pint and some good food, they probably aren't the folk you want visiting anyway? Ripped jeans, a mullet, and a 1984 styx t-shirt isn't going to look to well for the people who are willing to take that step. If that's the crowd you want, than expect more bar fights and ruckus than its worth.

And they still won't want to pay a fair price for your micro...
 
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