Munich / Tett Lager SMaSH. What style?

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AnOldUR

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Hoping to brew a Munich / Tettnang SMaSH this week using a slurry of Wyeast Munich Lager yeast fermented at 52 degrees. Shooting for an OG of 1.047 and 20 IBU’s.

Trying to fit this into a BJCP style, but having trouble. The best I can come up with is a Vienna Lager. A lot of the light lagers, like a Munich Helles are calling for Pilsner. Would the lack of it completely remove it from this style or is there another place it would fit better?

There are those who say if it tastes good it doesn’t matter. Call me OCD, but I like to fill in the blanks in BeerSmith. If I’m brewing at least close to a style, I figure this noob has a better chance of keeping the beer balanced.
 
Vienna Lager or Marzen. It's borderline between the two. Deathbrewer has a point though. If you have moderate efficiency, you'll use enough Munich to get into Dunkel SRM but just barely. 1.048 is also just slightly too low for Dunkel.
 
no vienna lager or marzen will have a 100% munich. it will be FAR maltier and darker. most munich dunkels don't even contain 100% munich malt. it can be rather overpowering.

not saying it's a bad idea though. i have a friend who has made a couple of hybrids with 100% munich and they were very tasty (as long as you like a good malty beer)
 
. . . it'll be darker and maltier than a vienna lager.
BeerSmith has it at 8.5 SRM. With a decoction it should darken up a bit but not out of style (I don't think.)


Vienna Lager or Marzen. It's borderline between the two.
There have been some Vienna Lager recipes with all Vienna and I thought that Munich malt was like a stronger Vienna malt.


I have a friend who has made a couple of hybrids with 100% munich and they were very tasty (as long as you like a good malty beer)
I've been sampling very similar recipe brewed by 944play that's very tasty.
 
you could sprinkle a little carafa II in the mash for color. it won't add any flavor in a very small amount. but...there goes your SMaSH :)

There have been some Vienna Lager recipes with all Vienna and I thought that Munich malt was like a stronger Vienna malt.

it's MUCH darker and stronger when used for 100% of the grist. Vienna Malt can be used as a base for just about any type of malty beer. munich is much more powerful.
 
it's MUCH darker and stronger when used for 100% of the grist. Vienna Malt can be used as a base for just about any type of malty beer. munich is much more powerful.

The Munich I used, from AHS (not sure what maltster), is 4-7L. Pretty close to Vienna AFAIK. I was targeting Vienna lager from hearing the Jamil Show where Ray Daniels suggested* that a VL could be made from 100% Munich.

Attached photo is my 1.049 Munich SMaSH. Flash photo makes it look a LOT darker than the mere golden it really is.

Death, I have two BMBF'd bottles left... want one?

*"If you make it at the low end of the range, 1.048 with all Munich malt, nothing else, it would probably be incredible Vienna."


IMG_5487.jpg
 
Finally got around to brewing this SMaSH. I liked DeathBrewers idea of a Munich Dunkel. To help with the color I tried roasting (or is it toasting?) 1½ pounds of the Munich (350 degrees for 20 minutes.) It did a good job of darkening the grain and gave it a nutty taste. The whole house was filled with a nice aroma. Also boiled the mash-out decoction for 20 minute in hope of adding to the color. The combination must have worked. This is the darkest SMaSH I’ve ever done. Used a new MLT and got better efficiency. The planned 1.047 OG @ 65% became 1.056 @ 78%. Almost out of style, but just makes it.

Thanks for the input. Now I hope it tastes as good as it looks.



Munich-Tett.jpg
 
Just another picture. This batch took off quickly on the Munich Lager yeast slurry. The krausen is interesting. Looks better in person. It's like a landscape with snow-covered mountains, or may be a chocolate dessert with whipped cream on it.

Yum! Anyone got a spoon? :p

MunichTett2.jpg
 
That definitely looks darker than mine was. It looks like a red! Munich+toasting+decoction... equals copious melanoidins. Your brewhouse must smell like a toast factory.:)
 
So I finally tried 944play's lager last week. It was super tasty (albeit a bit undercarbonated, probably due to BMBF.)

Here are the tasting notes. I'm no pro ;)

Aroma: Fruity, malt comes through nicely. Almost nutty.
Appearance: Light orange color, slight lacing, teeny weeny head.
Flavor: Nice malt complexity, good balance with slight pleasant bitter bite at the end.
Mouthfeel: Rich and full, carbonation detracted a bit.

Overall: Awesomeness. Thanks alot, dude. Despite the carbonation, I enjoyed every sip of this beer.

Thanks for all the recipe info, too. Tett is one of my favorite hops. I may have to try this with a 100% Vienna SMaSH now that I can lager.
:mug:
 
Just another picture. This batch took off quickly on the Munich Lager yeast slurry. The krausen is interesting. Looks better in person. It's like a landscape with snow-covered mountains, or may be a chocolate dessert with whipped cream on it.

Yum! Anyone got a spoon? :p

I have one! Ooh! me! :D

Looks great man. Let us know when you keg/bottle this sucker.
 
Overall: Awesomeness. Thanks alot, dude. Despite the carbonation, I enjoyed every sip of this beer.

Glad you liked. I really wish I had not burned through that keg while it was young. The BMBF'd bottles that sat for another month were much crisper. Now I have two kegs of SMaSH lager to sit on* with no room for the Centennial (Type) Blonde to slot in.:eek:

*But I've been sampling. Both are still very yeasty, but:
2-row/Liberty: Bright, fruity, almost lemony.
Pils/Hallertau: Rich, bready, malty, and cantaloupey.
 
I really wish I had not burned through that keg while it was young. The BMBF'd bottles that sat for another month were much crisper. . .
Ewww. Does this mean that I have the last remaining bottle from this batch? Gunna do my best to hang onto it until my version is ready. For now I have mine lagering in a carboy instead of a keg. That’s my only hope for staying out of it before its time.



Tett is one of my favorite hops. I may have to try this with a 100% Vienna SMaSH now that I can lager.
Looking forward to hearing how this turns out. I have a Vienna/Vanguard lager SMaSH on tap. It’s clean but very tasty. (22 IBU - .47 IBU/SG) I have a neighbor who has been hard to please. She’s not a big drinker, but downed three pints of the stuff during the Super Bowl.
:drunk:
 
Patience is good! Kegged the Munich Dunkel today. This is from a sample force carbed with a Carbonator Cap. Very pleased! You'd never guess that this is a SMaSH. Check out the clarity and color. My wife say, ruby red.


Munich_Dunkel_3.jpg
 
I'm doing a Munich/Tett lager again!

11lb 6.5ºL Munich
1.75oz Tettnang 3.4% 60min
.25oz Tettnang 3.4% 10min
WLP838/WY2308 (used one pack of each) harvested from my B3 Vienna

Expecting ~1.053 and ~25 IBU. Planning a single decoction 140-154ºF again. Maybe I'll add a mashout this time.
Does this mean that I have the last remaining bottle from this batch?
Yes, but there will be more.:tank:
 
I'm doing a Munich/Tett lager again!

11lb 6.5ºL Munich
1.75oz Tettnang 3.4% 60min
.25oz Tettnang 3.4% 10min
WLP838/WY2308 (used one pack of each) harvested from my B3 Vienna

Expecting ~1.053 and ~25 IBU. Planning a single decoction 140-154ºF again. Maybe I'll add a mashout this time.

Yes, but there will be more.:tank:

Have you tried first wort hopping the 1.75oz of tett?
 
I have FWH'd a few times and liked the beer, but I'm going for a classic noble bitterness on this. According to this Chris Colby article, this beer will be a Märzen -- and danged if it isn't right in the middle of the BJCP ranges.
 
Have you tried first wort hopping the 1.75oz of tett?
Mine was FWH'ed with Tett, but 1oz. pre-boil and additional 1/2oz additions at 20 and 10 minutes remaining in the 75 minute boil. I’ve used this same batch of hops in other styles. Here it adds a softer bittering, but with similar flavor and aroma.


Hey Matt, mine has been hooked up to the CO2 for long enough now that it’s ready to drink. I managed to hang onto a bottle of yours from that last batch. I’ve been looking forward to comparing our different approach to this SMaSH. Let you know.
 
Hey, OT a bit but I really like your MO/Vanguard SMASH. The other one (Fuggle IIRC) I found was too much hop flavor vs. bitterness. Maybe it needed some time.
Yeah, the Vanguard keg has been kicked for a while now, but the Fuggle SMaSH just isn't coming along like I'd hoped. Think I'll take your advise and pull it out of the fridge and let it sit for a month or so.

Getting back to the Munich/Tett, I'm looking forward to getting it into the hands of a BJCP judge or just some brewers familar with the Munich Dunkel style for a critique. I'm very pleased with it, but lack the experience to know if it fits within style guidelines. Got to get around to some BMBF before it runs dry! :eek:
 
Expecting ~1.053 and ~25 IBU.

Got about 80% efficiency on this one for 1.056 OG. Double decoction 138-154-167ºF. Everything went swimmingly until I went to pitch. I had the washed yeast in a growler, so I poured off most of the water and shook up the yeast -- I never expected 838 to be so flocculent! The yeast kinda oozed out in two big chunks and the slurry that followed overflowed my little funnel.
 
The yeast kinda oozed out in two big chunks and the slurry that followed overflowed my little funnel.
After decanting the starter beer off the top, I sometimes add a cup or two of wort to the remaining slurry and stir. Flows a lot easier that way.



Edit:
Sounds like you had a great brewday. That mash schedule is very similar to the one I used on my Munich/Tett Lager. Biggest difference is that I did a 20 minute rest at 104 and infused up to 140. Same two decoctions after that.
 
Does this mean that I have the last remaining bottle from this batch?
Yes, but there will be more.
Finally found the right time to do a side by side with your Munich/Tett. Your bottle had a couple of months of additional conditioning since DeathBrewer’s review and this did make a difference. It poured with fluffy head that dissipated in a few minutes, leaving a thin layer. Carbonation level was fine. There was no fruity or hop aroma, just a bit of the roasty Munich coming through along with some malt. Flavor was toasty and dry with a nice level of bittering. Overall a delicious treat. It’s sad to know that this is the last from the batch.

As for any comparison, the Munich character comes through on both, but in a different way. These are two totally different beers and it’s amazing to know that we started with the same ingredients. I’ll leave a review of mine to someone less bias, but will say that it is a much softer version and lacks the dry finish. I hope I get a chance to bottle some before the weekend. We have a crowd coming over for Easter and I’d hate to see it kick without having saved some.

Here's a picture of the two. Background lighting comes through better on yours, but the color difference is still noticeable.

MunichTett.jpg
 
That's great!

The Vienna Lager will be the first beer I brew once my shelves and cabinets get built in the brewery. Until then, I can't move the chest freezer and cannot lager.

I was thinking 80% Vienna, 20% Munich with Tettnanger and one other hop...maybe hallertau...or I just got some palisade I want to try. Definitely going to do some FWH in this one.

Instead of a SMaSH, it could be a 2Ma2H :D
 
Here's a picture of the two. Background lighting comes through better on yours, but the color difference is still noticeable.

Wow, great photo! Mine looks like a BMC next to yours, though. It's hard to believe there was adequate carbonation -- I'm guessing there was a little bit of fermentation going on in that bottle.
 
As for any comparison, the Munich character comes through on both, but in a different way.

Wow, you bet it's different! I'm only halfway through the beer, but I have to say, this is what Munich ought to be!

app: Dark brown, off-white lasting head, some haze, deep copper highlights
aro: Thick with big toffee, fennel, and pumpernickel. Hints of cookie spices.
flv: Malty with black licorice and caramel
plt: Exceptional. Sweet is punctuated with spicy bitterness and tingling carbonation. Finishes very clean and wanting more!
ova: This beer starts out exactly like Mönchshof Schwarz (which, according to Jamil, is much more like a Dunkel with its big bready malt) and when it warms, kind of has notes of English winter warmers (Wychwood Bah Humbug comes to mind) but only in the nose and flavor. Palate has that tell-tale lager void and finish is always surprisingly dry.

Now I'm 3/4ths through it. I will save the other one to put next to my own 1.056 Mu/Tett/838 once it's mature (I actually have one poured right here, but it's clearly green).
 
I think the Vienna in my recipes is a tett smash. I can;t remember, I might have used NB for bittering but drop that and use enough tett for the IBU's. Anyway, that was a great beer.

I'd check but for some reaosn HBT is not letting me access my recipe drop down.
 
Nice touch with the Bar Harbor Brewing glass- appreciated by a Mainer! Sorry to drag up an old, but very interesting, thread!
 
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