Aeration?

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whoaru99

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I see there are several means of aeration from doing nothing (which, I suppose isn't really aeration) all the way to using O2.

What I've done on my first two batches is aggressively poured about 2/3-3/4 of the wort from the sanitized fermenter into another sanitized bucket, then repeated this back and forth five or six cycles (10 - 12 pours - then pitching yeast into fermenter before the final pour for mixing).

Should this be adequate aeration?
 
That should be more than enough, I've been brewing for two years and haven't gone to 02 yet. The way I do it is I use my racking cane like a pump. I chill my wort with an immersion chiller in my kitchen sink so my boil kettle is there and then my carboy is on the floor. I put the sanitized racking cane in the kettle (with clear tubing attached) and the other end of the tubing at the top of the carboy and then I pump the cane up and down the whole time so that the wort is forcefully pushed down into the carboy (I have SWMBO hold the tubing right at the top so that the wort has to fall to the bottom). It splashes pretty violently and I usually end up with a good 6 inches of foam at the top of the carboy.

This has worked just fine for me and I don't see any reason to go to pure 02 yet. I don't brew lagers though so if you get into lager brewing you may want to look at getting set up for 02. What I wouldn't suggest is that you waste your money on an aeration system that doesn't use pure 02, it's not any better than shaking the carboy, pouring back and forth, pumping w/ racking cane, etc.
 
I had a friend tell me today that once your beer has been fermenting for about a week, you should crack it open and aerate it again to get the yeast active again. Any truth to this?
 
Based on a video I saw from a Wyeast rep (or was it White Labs?) I set a timer for 45 seconds, pick up the fermenter with the wort inside it and shake the living heck out of it until the timer goes off. Fermentations always start within hours and things work out great.

I pretty much only make session-strength beers, however. I do recall the rep in the video having a negative opinion of O2 stones, but I don't recall the rationale.
 
Both batches have kicked off within 12 hours of pitching. I say 12 hours only because that's about how much time has passed since I pitched, then checked it next morning and both had been bubbling away.

That said, pouring is a bit of a hassle so perhaps I'll try one of those wine stirrers or a paint mixer.
 
jpeebs said:
I had a friend tell me today that once your beer has been fermenting for about a week, you should crack it open and aerate it again to get the yeast active again. Any truth to this?

Oh man, no. This is a great way to oxidize the hell out of your beer.
 
I use a paint mixer in a drill also. I am going to get an O setup though.
I'm starting to read up on yeast a bit more and I'm even more sure that it's a good idea. Not something that you need to do, but way better if you do.
If you want a good healthy start to your yeast you need plenty of oxygen in the wort when you pitch.
I don't remember the numbers but pouring back and forth is way better than nothing, but no where near as good as something like a paint mixer and the paint mixer will give you a small fraction of the oxygen in the wort that an O2 stone hooked to a bottle will do.
Healthy happy yeast is consistent yeast with less off flavors.

As for trying to put oxygen into the wort after a week, I wouldn't do it. You are reaching the point where you don't want oxygen in there, plus you would be taking a chance on adding some unwanted bacteria to the wort.
If the yeast needs a kick, you might think about nutrients. After a week you shouldn't be seeing a lot of activity left in most beers anyway.
 
I have been using a fish tank air pump with no problem but some say that OXY is better so yesterday I hooked my stone to my OXY regulator on my welding set. Looking to see if there is any difference in the fermention today
 
I had a friend tell me today that once your beer has been fermenting for about a week, you should crack it open and aerate it again to get the yeast active again. Any truth to this?

That's a bad idea......yeast just need the oxygen to multiply but they don't actually begin the fermentation process until they have used all of the oxygen up.....you want to make sure they multiply to the proper numbers BEFORE fermentation starts....if your friend is having to aerate his beer after it's been fermenting for a week it's because he's not starting with the right amount of yeast up front and his finished product isn't nearly as good as it could be if he were pitching the correct amount
 
Hey capt....I have been thinking bout using a air pump as well...do you use a filter if some sort with a sanitizer in it?....I have been thinking about making a homemade filter with cotton balls soaked in starsan as a filter..maybe a 35mm film cup....or maybe just not worry bout it...
 
Thankx 99..I dident know those were available, I learn something every time I visit this site...I really need to improve aeration...I almost went for the paint mixer idea but I dont want to scratch the inside of my bucket. I think the air pump idea is the way to go as I could use it in my carboy as well as bucket, with a racking cane to get it it the bottom of the carboy, I already have an air pump I use just for drying tubing and such.....chers....Tom
 
Maybe this is where I went wrong. I did my first brew 10 days ago. I didn't know to mix things up after I chilled everything down. Racked it to my carboy, took a SG reading and it read low. 1.026. Figured I was reading mostly water and pitched my yeast (s 05) didn't start fermenting till later the next day 24 hrs at least. Just took my first FG reading and it was 1.012. Target is to be 1.015-1.018. Took a little tast and it had a sour taste. I made a Brewers Best Imperial Blonde Ale. The color s dark, not a blonde.. Thoughts. Could not mixing it up good before I pitched course the low readings?? Thanks for any and all help. Cheers!
 
cheesehed007 said:
Maybe this is where I went wrong. I did my first brew 10 days ago. I didn't know to mix things up after I chilled everything down. Racked it to my carboy, took a SG reading and it read low. 1.026. Figured I was reading mostly water and pitched my yeast (s 05) didn't start fermenting till later the next day 24 hrs at least. Just took my first FG reading and it was 1.012. Target is to be 1.015-1.018. Took a little tast and it had a sour taste. I made a Brewers Best Imperial Blonde Ale. The color s dark, not a blonde.. Thoughts. Could not mixing it up good before I pitched course the low readings?? Thanks for any and all help. Cheers!

Not getting a good mix is typical in all extract beer so that is why your gravity reading was off.

Aeration is important because yeast need the O2 for the initial growth phase. This is why your fermentation was delayed.

As for sour, that is more a sign of infection than poor aeration, are you sure you taste sour and not something else? How did you sanitize everything and what product did you use?
 
duboman said:
Not getting a good mix is typical in all extract beer so that is why your gravity reading was off.

Aeration is important because yeast need the O2 for the initial growth phase. This is why your fermentation was delayed.

As for sour, that is more a sign of infection than poor aeration, are you sure you taste sour and not something else? How did you sanitize everything and what product did you use?

I used "easy clean" it came with my starter kit from my LHBS. No not sure it's a true sour taste. It wasn't a pucker you face sour. Just not what I was expecting. I'll take another reading tomorrow and taste it again. Thanks for he help!
 
I bought a bait well aerater from West Marine for 15 bucks. I've used these before in my bait wells on teh boat for shrimp and i knew they will last forever on 2 D cell batteries. I Use it for 30 minutes prior to pitching every batch. Be warned, it will cause you to loose maybe pint or so of wort from bubbling out the top of the carboy. Never had a problem with the bubbling overspill with the bucket though.
 
Maybe this is where I went wrong. I did my first brew 10 days ago. I didn't know to mix things up after I chilled everything down. Racked it to my carboy, took a SG reading and it read low. 1.026. Figured I was reading mostly water and pitched my yeast (s 05) didn't start fermenting till later the next day 24 hrs at least. Just took my first FG reading and it was 1.012. Target is to be 1.015-1.018. Took a little tast and it had a sour taste. I made a Brewers Best Imperial Blonde Ale. The color s dark, not a blonde.. Thoughts. Could not mixing it up good before I pitched course the low readings?? Thanks for any and all help. Cheers!

I think what you are tasting is acetaldehyde, one of the intermediate products of fermentation. Given more time the yeast break this compound down into ethanol and the taste goes away. At 10 days your yeast just haven't finished the job.

Mixing the extract with water is difficult and often brewers report low OG when it really isn't low at all. Don't worry, if you used the right amount of extract and water, your OG was as planned.
 
RM-MN said:
I think what you are tasting is acetaldehyde, one of the intermediate products of fermentation. Given more time the yeast break this compound down into ethanol and the taste goes away. At 10 days your yeast just haven't finished the job.

Mixing the extract with water is difficult and often brewers report low OG when it really isn't low at all. Don't worry, if you used the right amount of extract and water, your OG was as planned.

Thanks! I was hoping someone would say something to this effect. This place and the people here a wealth of knowledge! Planning on keeping in the carboy for a total of 2 weeks. Cheers!
 
cheesehed007 said:
I used "easy clean" it came with my starter kit from my LHBS. No not sure it's a true sour taste. It wasn't a pucker you face sour. Just not what I was expecting. I'll take another reading tomorrow and taste it again. Thanks for he help!

Easy clean is not a sanitizer. You need to clean AND sanitize. Get yourself some OXY free or PBW and Star San.

The beer is young and not carbonated or conditioned so tasting is a difficult read but it's
Should still smell and taste like beer.
 
duboman said:
Easy clean is not a sanitizer. You need to clean AND sanitize. Get yourself some OXY free or PBW and Star San.

The beer is young and not carbonated or conditioned so tasting is a difficult read but it's
Should still smell and taste like beer.

Interesting, wonder why my HBS wouldn't include a sanitizer in the starter kit??? I'll get some ASAP. Thanks
 
The air pumps are a good, inexpensive way to get oxygen in the work. Better than my paint mixer for sure.
You do need to run it a lot longer than running O2 since the actual oxygen is low concentrate in air.
Be sure to buy the proper filter though!! You would be pumping a lot of germs into the wort by pumping air through the wort for that long.

I was going to buy an oxygen system (and other brewing stuff ) off craigslist last weekend but the guy was a flake. 13 emails and I still didn't have a phone number or physical address. I came home. Last night I ordered an O2 system though!
 
I just picked up the airation kit from Northern Brewer. I really got it for stepping up starters, but my main reason for posting is, the little plastic .2 micron air filters are very fragile, and will break if you force the hose on.
Combine this with a hose that is too small for the filter, and bam, you'll have a worthless, broken air filter if you're not careful, but I digress.

From what I've read, 30 seconds of O2 is equal to about 20 minutes of air.

I step up with a constant air bubble, and oxygenate wort with an air stone and O2.
 
Maybe this is where I went wrong. I did my first brew 10 days ago. I didn't know to mix things up after I chilled everything down. Racked it to my carboy, took a SG reading and it read low. 1.026. Figured I was reading mostly water and pitched my yeast (s 05) didn't start fermenting till later the next day 24 hrs at least. Just took my first FG reading and it was 1.012. Target is to be 1.015-1.018. Took a little tast and it had a sour taste. I made a Brewers Best Imperial Blonde Ale. The color s dark, not a blonde.. Thoughts. Could not mixing it up good before I pitched course the low readings?? Thanks for any and all help. Cheers!

Since this is an Imperial Blond kit, you can be assured that if you added all the malt extract and had the correct amount of water your OG will fall in the range predicted by the kit (1.067 to 1.071) and anything your hydrometer reading shows outside that range is from not mixing the wort well enough. It's hard to get the wort mixed but the yeast will find the sugars and do the mixing for you.

The main reason the wort is dark is from the Maillard reaction in your boil kettle darkening the extract as it boils. For your next brew, only use part of the extract for the full boil to extract the bittering from the hops and add the rest near the end of the boil.

You mention leaving this for 2 weeks in the fermenter but since it is an Imperial Blond the alcohol content will be higher than the standard gravity beers and will take longer to mature. I'd suggest leaving this in the fermenter for 3 to 4 weeks as you will likely end up with a better tasting beer. There will be lots of intermediate compounds that the yeast need time to break down.
 
Interesting, wonder why my HBS wouldn't include a sanitizer in the starter kit??? I'll get some ASAP. Thanks

IME, no retailer of kits includes actual sanitizer in their kits and for whatever reason it is usually not even suggested which is a huge disservice to new brewers.
 
RM-MN said:
Since this is an Imperial Blond kit, you can be assured that if you added all the malt extract and had the correct amount of water your OG will fall in the range predicted by the kit (1.067 to 1.071) and anything your hydrometer reading shows outside that range is from not mixing the wort well enough. It's hard to get the wort mixed but the yeast will find the sugars and do the mixing for you.

The main reason the wort is dark is from the Maillard reaction in your boil kettle darkening the extract as it boils. For your next brew, only use part of the extract for the full boil to extract the bittering from the hops and add the rest near the end of the boil.

You mention leaving this for 2 weeks in the fermenter but since it is an Imperial Blond the alcohol content will be higher than the standard gravity beers and will take longer to mature. I'd suggest leaving this in the fermenter for 3 to 4 weeks as you will likely end up with a better tasting beer. There will be lots of intermediate compounds that the yeast need time to break down.

Thanks, I'll let it sit for for 3-4 like you said. I'm picking up another fermenter so I can get another brew started... Thanks for the advice!! Cheers
 
duboman said:
IME, no retailer of kits includes actual sanitizer in their kits and for whatever reason it is usually not even suggested which is a huge disservice to new brewers.

Sanitizer wasn't brought up at all when I picked up my kit. I just assumed it was in the kit. Lesson learned I guess. Cheers!
 
cheesehed007 said:
Sanitizer wasn't brought up at all when I picked up my kit. I just assumed it was in the kit. Lesson learned I guess. Cheers!

Next time you are in there you should mention it
to them as it is really one of the most important things to learn about in the brewing process
 
duboman said:
Next time you are in there you should mention it
to them as it is really one of the most important things to learn about in the brewing process

My thoughts exactly, plan on stopping by Thurs or Fri.. Thanks! Cheers
 
OK...a couple quick questions about the topic aeration...apologies to 99 as I dont meant to hijack your thread..but as long as were talking aeration, would I need one of those in line sanitary filters if I had a disposable benzomatic c20 bottles? (red)...also my wife has a long lost hobby of making jewlery from old wine bottles...so we have in our garage an old co2 machine...I think its called millinum respor something ..it looks like a small air conditioner but it takes c02 from the air and condenses it ( I think)...she was using it for a torch (c02 and propane )to melt glass, it was refurbished so it says right on it "not for medical use hobby only "...could I use this to put pure co2 in wort... ok that was probobly a stupid question ..but would I have to filter that with one of those sanitary in line filters as well?...(20 minutes with an aquarium pump is just too long)....Tom
 
tnsen said:
OK...a couple quick questions about the topic aeration...apologies to 99 as I dont meant to hijack your thread..but as long as were talking aeration, would I need one of those in line sanitary filters if I had a disposable benzomatic c20 bottles? (red)...also my wife has a long lost hobby of making jewlery from old wine bottles...so we have in our garage an old co2 machine...I think its called millinum respor something ..it looks like a small air conditioner but it takes c02 from the air and condenses it ( I think)...she was using it for a torch (c02 and propane )to melt glass, it was refurbished so it says right on it "not for medical use hobby only "...could I use this to put pure co2 in wort... ok that was probobly a stupid question ..but would I have to filter that with one of those sanitary in line filters as well?...(20 minutes with an aquarium pump is just too long)....Tom

You do not want to inject CO2, that's a byproduct of fermentation, you want to infuse the wort with O2 as that's what yeast requires to grow and multiply during the first phase or lag time. More O2reduces lag time but it can also be over done.

Yes you can use an aquarium pump with a sinter stone, about 5 minutes as you fill the primary, IMO
 
What about one of those stick blenders. I have one that, I think, must be turbocharged. Do Y'all think it would work well?
 
The way I understand it, for most Ales that are low to medium gravity, shaking or stir should be sufficient. However for high gravity beers, you need more oxygen. About twice the oxygen to what shaking can produce. So I invested in a stone, hose and o2 bottle. If you ever do high gravity beers, I think it's a good investment. Since you can't really over oxygenate the wort it can come in handy for starters, yeast farming etc.
My 2 cents
 
W0rthog said:
The way I understand it, for most Ales that are low to medium gravity, shaking or stir should be sufficient. However for high gravity beers, you need more oxygen. About twice the oxygen to what shaking can produce. So I invested in a stone, hose and o2 bottle. If you ever do high gravity beers, I think it's a good investment. Since you can't really over oxygenate the wort it can come in handy for starters, yeast farming etc.
My 2 cents

You can over oxygenate with bottled O2. You cannot with an air pump.
 
jeepinjeepin said:
You can over oxygenate with bottled O2. You cannot with an air pump.

If known, please indicate how many ppm it would take to over oxygenate wort.
 
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