Question About Boiling LME and DME

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Just-a-Guy

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OK, I am confused. I've read a lot on here, and it seems like I have read conflicting views. Any help would be appreciated.

I'm about to brew up my 9th batch, which I think I'll do a pale ale. I've been using True Brew kits, which my LHBS sells. They come with some steeping grains, and usually a couple of cans of LME. Some of the kits also have some DME (like the 2XIPA kit).

Anyway, two questions:

1. The kits typically say boil the LME for 20-30 mins after they foam up and subside. I've read that it is not necessary (or advisable) to boil LME too much, especially hopped LME. I've read that boiling the LME is really pointless, and will result of bitter off-tastes. I've also read that one needs to boil LME for a full hour to break down complex sugars into fermentables. Any help at all with this would be appreciated.

2. I would like to add some DME to the kit to increase OG and ultimate ABV. (I think I've been getting around 4% and I would like to get it up to around 6-7%.) If I have a kit/recipe that is just steeping grains, LME and some hop pellets, should I boil the extra (not in the kit, purchased separately) DME first (longer), then add the LME (for a shorter boil time on the LME)?

Thanks for any help, folks. I've read thousands of posts here and read more every day. Trying to learn!

Mark
 
1. The kits typically say boil the LME for 20-30 mins after they foam up and subside. I've read that it is not necessary (or advisable) to boil LME too much, especially hopped LME. I've read that boiling the LME is really pointless, and will result of bitter off-tastes. I've also read that one needs to boil LME for a full hour to break down complex sugars into fermentables. Any help at all with this would be appreciated.

2. I would like to add some DME to the kit to increase OG and ultimate ABV. (I think I've been getting around 4% and I would like to get it up to around 6-7%.) If I have a kit/recipe that is just steeping grains, LME and some hop pellets, should I boil the extra (not in the kit, purchased separately) DME first (longer), then add the LME (for a shorter boil time on the LME)?
Click to expand...

1. Boil the LME for 20 minutes and I would actually add some to the whole hour boil - do the instructions say boil an hour? Ive never brewed any LME that had hops included in it.

Normally they say add half for the last 20 minutes so the LME will not caramelize. Boiling is always good.

As for DME - it's just like LME but drier! Personally I add 1/3 of the extract at the beginning for and then bring it to a boil. Then another third at the 1/2 hour mark and the last 15 to 20 minutes. Boiling is always good but extract will tend to caramelize with extract boil time SINCE,it's been boiled already once.

HOWEVER you do it. It'll work out. no worries!!
 
Most boils are for a total of 60 minutes. Old-style conventional wisdom was to boil your extract for this entire period.

As homebrew methods matured, most people found that their beers improved if they didn't boil all the extract for 60 minutes. Boiling for 60 minutes often leads to the carmalized taste grinder talks about.

A lot of folks boil with half their extract at the beginning and the other half around the 15 minute mark (or a variation of the above). This is roughly what I do.

Keep in mind that recipes are configured with hop utilizations calculated for all the extract in the boil for the full 60 minutes. What this means to the brewer is that if you don't boil with all the extract for 60 minutes, your beer could/should potentially be more bitter. However, I really haven't noticed this in practice.

What I do notice with adding extract late is that my beer tastes better!

Search "late extract additions" for more.

Pez.
 
Thanks, guys. I will try the search. In the meantime, do you guys treat DME and LME differently in boiling? I mean, if you're using both, do you start with the DME and boil for a while before adding LME?

Thanks!

Mark
 
When I have had both I boiled half of the LME for the whole 60 minutes. I then added 1/2 the DME at 30 minutes. And the rest of both at 15 minutes. All those times are approximate since the LME takes a while to add and I stopped mid addition to add hops at their appropriate times.

They came out great. I also got a lighter color on my pales when adding late.
Extract tends to get darker than desired.
 
It doesn't matter which you start with. LME is easier to mix when the water is warm, I find DME easier to mix when there is no steam, it is very hydrophilic and will clump up as it absorbs moisture from the steam and make it hard to pour from the bag.
 
helibrewer said:
It doesn't matter which you start with. LME is easier to mix when the water is warm, I find DME easier to mix when there is no steam, it is very hydrophilic and will clump up as it absorbs moisture from the steam and make it hard to pour from the bag.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've had that happen every time I've used DME. So, do you pour it into the water cold, then heat and stir?

Sorry for these basic questions... but the nitty gritty is often omitted from the bird's eye view of books etc.
 
When using DME I mix it in cold water and then bring the heat up. No steam = less clumping. If you start with LME, simply use another pot with cool water to mix your DME before adding it into your main pot.

FWIW, neither LME nor DME need to be boiled. They were boiled before they were packaged and a second boil isn't needed (unless of course you need to boil for the hop additions). But, late extract additions do not require boiling at all so drop them in as late as you like.
 
Kealia said:
FWIW, neither LME nor DME need to be boiled. They were boiled before they were packaged and a second boil isn't needed (unless of course you need to boil for the hop additions). But, late extract additions do not require boiling at all so drop them in as late as you like.
Click to expand...


That's what I've read elsewhere, too. So, forgive the dumb question, but why do all these "kits" and instructions say to boil? Is it just to kill any potential nasties in the water or extract? Or just to get everything mixed together?

Also...is there any thinking that one might boil just water and hops for a while (to break out the oils), and then later add in the extract, toward the end of the boil? Or do the hops have to be boiled with the extract to impart the bittering?
 
Just-a-Guy said:
That's what I've read elsewhere, too. So, forgive the dumb question, but why do all these "kits" and instructions say to boil? Is it just to kill any potential nasties in the water or extract? Or just to get everything mixed together?

Also...is there any thinking that one might boil just water and hops for a while (to break out the oils), and then later add in the extract, toward the end of the boil? Or do the hops have to be boiled with the extract to impart the bittering?
Click to expand...

I had the same question and researched it a bit. I found somewhere that there are interactions between the malt compounds and the hops that add value to the wort so you really can't handle them seperately and just combine them in the end....although I am considering an experiment to do just that...we'll see.
 
Pre hopped LME should always be added at flame out. I use 1.5-2lbs of plain DME in a 3 gallon boil for hop additions. Then added the remaining DME & all the LME at flame out. The boiled wort is still plenty hot enough to dissolve the extracts,& clumping isn't hard to stir down. After the flame out additions,it's still over 180F,so pasteurization that happens at 162F is still going to happen. I cover the BK at that point & steep for 10 minutes.
The plain DME won't caramelize as easily as LME will. DME also makes for cleaner flavor & lighter color from the boiled part. Just like adding the LME at flame out will also add to lighter color,& cleaner flavor. Since pasteurization happens well below the boiling point,you don't need to ruin the LME's color & flavor to sanitize it. Even Cooper's doesn't have you boil the LME for any length of time. you don't wanna do that with pre-hopped extract anyway. It'll change the flavor & aroma additions to bittering.
 
unionrdr said:
Pre hopped LME should always be added at flame out.
Click to expand...


+1

To address the question higher up:
You "can't" boil hops in water. Well, technically you CAN but it's not going to work the way you want it to. In short, the wort creates the right environment for the bittering acids from the hops to do their things. You can read up more on the PH levels, etc. but that's the 10,000 foot explanation of why you need to boil hops in wort and not water.
 
helibrewer said:
It doesn't matter which you start with. LME is easier to mix when the water is warm, I find DME easier to mix when there is no steam, it is very hydrophilic and will clump up as it absorbs moisture from the steam and make it hard to pour from the bag.
Click to expand...

Try pouring the DME into a bowl or large measuring cup first. Then you can get the stuck part out by dipping the bowl in the wort and swirling it around.
 
I full boil LME and DME and have never had a problem... exactly what do you mean by caramelized?
 
Just-a-Guy said:
.......... I've read thousands of posts here and read more every day. Trying to learn!

Mark
Click to expand...

Me too... trying to learn. Please correct if my understanding
is off base.

With total extract brewing, you don't have to boil at all except to gain the best/most
benefits from hop additions. As an example, when I do a partial mash
this(mashing) works in lieu of adding a portion of extract at the beginning
of boil.

When I brew this way (a bit of grain(mashed)/some extract(at end of boil)) I just
add the extract at the end of the boil.
 
AdamPag said:
I full boil LME and DME and have never had a problem... exactly what do you mean by caramelized?
Click to expand...

Carmalization is when a sugar browns because of heat. During this process it also develops aromatic compounds. Caramel candy is made by heating sugar untill it browns - thus you get the characteristic color and taste. This is also the reason why crystal malt is often called caramel malt.

Anyway, boiling a sugar solution sets you up for carmalization to occur. You are more at risk during a extract partial boil than you are with a full boil due to the sugar concentration.

This process also makes it difficult for partial boil extract brewers to make a truly light colored beer.


It is my belief that this process gets blamed for the infamous
"extract twang". Anyway, adding at least half of the extract late helps combat or eliminate these issues. It did for me.

Pez.
 

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