HLT Stirring

I am currently building a HLT with a sanke keg. I will soon put in a HEX coil and was wondering what works best for stirring the HLT.

I have seen quite a few are using a gear motor/paddle but I would rather keep everthing out of the cover if possible.

So, I think I would rather use a pump to stir. Anyone have a suggestion for a pump they have used or if there is a reason not to do it this way?

Thanks

Stirring with an external pump will cause more heat loss, but it is effective. Make sure the return is under the liquid level.

I currently stir using the pump, it does loose a lot of heat that way, but works. I am thinking of switching to some sort of paddle stirer, or air bubbler (in the HLT)

So is the pump itself or the plumbing loosing the heat. Could it be insulated? My HLT is electric. 4500W element. What kind of pump are you using?

My plan is to solder on (2) ss half couplings for in and out and put a dedicated pump right on the HLT between the couplings.

Heat losses are through the tubing, a bit, but I know my ss ball valve and fittings get very hot which means heat loss.

Anyone tried a submerged pump to mix or will the heat be an issue for them?

I am about to put together my HLT and was planning on putting in a whirlpool like inlet to stir it to. I am going to use this as my HERMS heat exchanger too, and heat loss would be a bad thing for that?

What would everyone recommend to stir it then?

I do have an old Ice Cream Maker motor that I was going to use for something (Mash stirrer?). Maybe this would be a better idea?

Thanks

Here is what I was planning to use for a pump:



Circulator Pump, Open Loop, 1/150 HP, 1 Phase, Voltage 115, 0.30 Amps, Inlet/Outlet 1/2 In Sweat, Housing Material Brass, Max. Temp. 230 F, Max. Working Pressure 150 PSI, Shut-Off 6 Ft., 3400 RPM, Impeller Material Noryl/Stainless Steel, Auto Thermal Protection, Warranty Length 2 Years

Like I mentioned earlier, I was thinking of mounting this to the HLT between the inlet and outlets. And maybe make some sort of directional outlet so It will whirlpool a bit. This pump is on sale for $62. What does everyone think?

Anyone know what Noryl is? Never heard of it.

Is that a food-safe pump? Most of us are using March or Little Giant pumps with magnetic drives, no chance of lubrication contamination... they are food safe.

I use my aquarium pump to stir my HLT. I just thread the hose through the end of my long spoon so that the output of the hose is at the bottom of the tun and turn it on. The air bubbles cause more than enough agitation to keep the water at consistent temps.

ajwillys said:

I use my aquarium pump to stir my HLT.

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air pump right?

BargainFittings said:

air pump right?

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Yep, aquarium air pump. The same one I use to aerate with. It doesn't actually 'stir' but it agitates it plenty to keep the heat temp consistent throughout the entire tun.

Doesn't it just produce 1 stream of bubbles? Where do you put the output of the air pump?

I just would worry that the bubbles don't push the water around enough to always have warm water around the HERMS coil?

Not sure which is worse, lack of water movement or loss of heat through the pump.

MrShake said:

Is that a food-safe pump? Most of us are using March or Little Giant pumps with magnetic drives, no chance of lubrication contamination... they are food safe.

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I looked up Noryl. They make mirowave food containers out of it. the rest is brass and stainless.

here is the specs.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1DLW1?Pid=search

Magnetic drive, ceramic bearings? Anyone see a problem?

ajwillys said:

I use my aquarium pump to stir my HLT. I just thread the hose through the end of my long spoon so that the output of the hose is at the bottom of the tun and turn it on. The air bubbles cause more than enough agitation to keep the water at consistent temps.

Click to expand...

So that really works? I was thinking one would have to take the cooler water from the bottom and transfer it to the top. This is very interesting if it works much easier and cheaper. Have you ever measured the temp difference from top to bottom on your vessel?

Ya i am interested in the air pump stirring method as well. The motor and prop setup that The Pol posted is a bit pricey. Fantastic and Solid but pricey. Been looking at motors and seems like he found the answer to not burning out motors. Being food safe isnt really an issue for me as my herms will be a stand alone 5 gallon cooler. Just ordered another johnson A419 to maintain temps in it.

lschiavo said:

I looked up Noryl. They make mirowave food containers out of it. the rest is brass and stainless.

here is the specs.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1DLW1?Pid=search

Magnetic drive, ceramic bearings? Anyone see a problem?

Click to expand...

I looked at the specs, and it looks good to me. It does say max out 150psi. That is way high for our use, but it is a magnetic pump.

I'd like to see what someone that knows more about pumps thinks of these. I'm wondering if this could replace the March 809?

RonRock said:

I looked at the specs, and it looks good to me. It does say max out 150psi. That is way high for our use, but it is a magnetic pump.

I'd like to see what someone that knows more about pumps thinks of these. I'm wondering if this could replace the March 809?

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This is a closeout item. I cant find the original price but I thought I saw over $150 originally. If it looks good to you get one b4 they are sold out. How about the capacity compared to March?

Good point. From the March pdf it is good for 6gpm @ 12 ft head, this one 3gpm @ 3 ft head. and 2gpm @ 5 ft. The motor is 1/50hp and March 1/25hp. Probably not a replacement for the March. But still could be a good pump. IDK.

RonRock said:

Good point. From the March pdf it is good for 6gpm @ 12 ft head, this one 3gpm @ 3 ft head. and 2gpm @ 5 ft. The motor is 1/50hp and March 1/25hp. Probably not a replacement for the March. But still could be a good pump. IDK.

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It is half the power. But for a stir pump with 2 ft head max I think it will work fine.

I just ordered one. I usually get Grainger orders in a few days and will install soon. I will let everyone know how it works.

thanks for all the input.

lschiavo said:

It is half the power. But for a stir pump with 2 ft head max I think it will work fine.

I just ordered one. I usually get Grainger orders in a few days and will install soon. I will let everyone know how it works.

thanks for all the input.

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Well, let me know when I can finally see this HLT in action! I guess dissing my stirrer really got you thinking, huh?

YooperBrew said:

Well, let me know when I can finally see this HLT in action! I guess dissing my stirrer really got you thinking, huh?

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It will be done enough to use for heating water on Monday. Come over and check it out if you can. We usually start a little later maybe 4 or 5. I'll let you know.

Didn't mean to diss your stirrer. I can see it works. Guess I just want "more power" [grunt].

I just checked the original price on this pump $271.25.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/viewCatalogPDF.shtml?browserCompatable=true&adobeCompatable=true&toolbar=true&CatPage=3449

I know Grainger is pricey usually. But this seems like quite a deal at about $60 if anyone is interested.

Yes, my air pump totally works. I got the step up model I guess, but it outputs tons of air and easily stirs enough to keep the water moving. Of course, I don't use the diffuser stones, we want big bubbles here that really disturb the water. If you have an air pump, try it. It's super easy, cheap, and works well.

lschiavo said:

It is half the power. But for a stir pump with 2 ft head max I think it will work fine.

I just ordered one. I usually get Grainger orders in a few days and will install soon. I will let everyone know how it works.

thanks for all the input.

Click to expand...

Just to remind you that pump rating specs are under each manufactures ideal conditions only for their highest ratings against other manufactures, add the head, your piping diameter, length plus each fitting plus every bend they all add more resistance to the flow. What can start out as overkill size pump times three can be marginal at best in the real world. just a heads up, buy once it's cheaper is my take on pumps. March isn't on my list either, sold them over two years ago. There's a reason why the name Little Giant is applied to their pumps. There 200*F max pump I have run 240*F for over three hours pumping antifreeze thru each motor on a breakin test stand and it has held up for over 15 motors so far. Save a dollar can cost hundreds more later. Direct hands on be it not wort but 240*F fluids has me sold besides the higher HP ratings of LG pumps.

lschiavo said:

It will be done enough to use for heating water on Monday. Come over and check it out if you can. We usually start a little later maybe 4 or 5. I'll let you know.

Didn't mean to diss your stirrer. I can see it works. Guess I just want "more power" [grunt].

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Can you PM me the directions, and the time you're going to start? I'll try to make it. I have to work, but I'll try to get done early to come over. Please have at least one beer ready for me. Thank you.

BrewBeemer said:

Just to remind you that pump rating specs are under each manufactures ideal conditions only for their highest ratings against other manufactures, add the head, your piping diameter, length plus each fitting plus every bend they all add more resistance to the flow. What can start out as overkill size pump times three can be marginal at best in the real world. just a heads up, buy once it's cheaper is my take on pumps. March isn't on my list either, sold them over two years ago. There's a reason why the name Little Giant is applied to their pumps. There 200*F max pump I have run 240*F for over three hours pumping antifreeze thru each motor on a breakin test stand and it has held up for over 15 motors so far. Save a dollar can cost hundreds more later. Direct hands on be it not wort but 240*F fluids has me sold besides the higher HP ratings of LG pumps.

Click to expand...

I hate buying junk. I hope I haven't. The specs look great. Not alot of power but I dont need it for a stir pump. So Little Giant is your choice? I'll check those out.

Thanks

Yes Little Giant pumps are my choice over March pumps hands down. My electrical contractor needed four pumps but got a better price purchasing 11 vs the 1 to 10 pricing.
I purchased the extras at contractor price and used them for my rig plus others for friends brew systems. A win win for all. Sad part I sold my brewery with intentions of building another right away instead needed a couple spine surgeries so lifes on hold as well the next brewery build. Thru the engineers for our job project I added my pump brewing needs and specs I was told to start out with double the output of the pump manufactures rating as the fittings, lines and bends will cut it down to about half the flow and head ratings. A good way is to not build with a underpowered pumping system from the start. Besides the higher head, volume as well hands on pumping up to 260*F at one time for an hour plus at these temps the LG pump had me sold over my March pumps. I sold the March pumps a couple years ago the best move I ever made. The contractors price was a great savings I could not pass up either.

Why would you need to stir an HLT?

dzlater said:

Why would you need to stir an HLT?

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As you heat the water you get different layers of temperature in the water. Stirring keeps it closer to one temp.

lschiavo said:

I hate buying junk. I hope I haven't. The specs look great. Not alot of power but I dont need it for a stir pump. So Little Giant is your choice? I'll check those out.

Thanks

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Hey, after seeing your rig, I think you need to take a picture of it and post it in the "let's see your build" thread. I was very impressed by the compact footprint, the HLT control, and the way you have it set up. I know others would want to see it, and copy it.

I was pleasantly surprised to find you guys doing one of my recipes when I walked in- I hope it comes out as well for you as it does for me!

Thanks for having us over, by the way. The beer was really good- I really enjoyed sampling your brews.

YooperBrew said:

Hey, after seeing your rig, I think you need to take a picture of it and post it in the "let's see your build" thread. I was very impressed by the compact footprint, the HLT control, and the way you have it set up. I know others would want to see it, and copy it.

I was pleasantly surprised to find you guys doing one of my recipes when I walked in- I hope it comes out as well for you as it does for me!

Thanks for having us over, by the way. The beer was really good- I really enjoyed sampling your brews.

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Thanks for the compliments. I think I will post some pictures once I get everthing complete...if there is such a thing.

I hope your recipe turns out as good for us now that we know our water is so different! Either way there is definately a next batch planned.

For whoever may be interested, I have the stir pump installed and it works great. I tied the input of the pump to the bottom of the HLT and let it continuously circulate to the top of the HLT and whatever temp I dial up on the controller is what I get at the outlet.

I installed this as a dedicated pump only for stirring.

The pump I used from Grainger (i ordered two) was a closeout item. It was listed as 230 degree rated. When I got it there was a tag on the motor listing 140 degree max (it ocassionaly cuts out on thermal which was my gripe). I called Grainger to ask WTF? and they told me to keep the pumps and refunded me full purchase price. So, I got the two pumps for free!

I just used the second the other night to pump through the Therminator and it worked fine with near boiling wort. Thanks Grainger for the two free pumps they got me through 20 gallons on Monday...we'll see how long they last!