Dry without losing body?

I just finished a massive Imperial IPA and it really got me thinking about how to get a nice, dry beer without losing too much body. I know there are somethings that people do (like Jamil raising ferment temp for second half of ferment) but Im curious what tricks you guys use?

A big homebrew myth is that mashing at a high temperature will give you sweet beer. Not necessarily so. If you pitch an appropriate amount of a moderately attenuative yeast, say 1056/US-05/wlp001, and mash at a high temp, you will get a dry(not sweet) beer with bigger mouthfeel. The dextrins that are left from a high mash temp are not sweet.

Now if you are doing extract, you might be stuck with fermentability. If you can do a PM, add some dextrin malt(Cara-pils) and some base malt and mash at like 158,it will add plenty of unfermentable, non-sweet dextrins.

smizak said:

A big homebrew myth is that mashing at a high temperature will give you sweet beer. Not necessarily so. If you pitch an appropriate amount of a moderately attenuative yeast, say 1056/US-05/wlp001, and mash at a high temp, you will get a dry(not sweet) beer with bigger mouthfeel. The dextrins that are left from a high mash temp are not sweet.

Now if you are doing extract, you might be stuck with fermentability. If you can do a PM, add some dextrin malt(Cara-pils) and some base malt and mash at like 158,it will add plenty of unfermentable, non-sweet dextrins.

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Interesting - I used US-05 for my IIPA. All grain - actually a variation on the dogfishhead 90 clone. I did a low mash - 152 to try and dry out. Maybe I should have raised a few degrees. Anyone else have any takes on it?

FWIW, I like my IIPAs on the dry side. The sweetness clashes with hops IMO.

I made a change to my lautering procedure recently that has resulted in noticeably higher final gravities. Previously, I was mashing at 154 and trying to get a mid level FG, say 1.015-1.013 on my pale ales and porters. I kept getting 1.012 and lower, including a IPA that finished at 1.010 from 1.067. The difference in my procedure was simply lautering directly into my kettle with a low flame going, instead into a bucket and then carrying the wort outside to the burner. I imagine that the wort cooled in the bucket as the runoff occurred, which could be as long as 15 min. with my tun, and resulted in increased beta-amylase activity and more fermentable wort. One could also just do a mash-out step if their equipment allows as well.

Mashing on the high temp side as mentioned.

However, once you get to a certain point(in terms of desired abv) you'll need to introduce simple sugars as a percentage of your fermentables in order to achieve a high abv while keeping the beer dry enough.

Add something with a lot of beta glucans, like rye or oats. My rye ipa started out at 1.065 and finished out at 1.006 (2lbs of sugar in fermentables), but the mouthfeel is much fuller than that. It drinks more like a 1.012 beer.

maskednegator said:

Add something with a lot of beta glucans, like rye or oats. My rye ipa started out at 1.065 and finished out at 1.006 (2lbs of sugar in fermentables), but the mouthfeel is much fuller than that. It drinks more like a 1.012 beer.

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Might I ask the yeast used? I find that there are a select few beers that come out with the mouthfeel I am looking for when I use a highly attenuative yeast and trying to get a lot of mouthfeel.. That said though, with an IPA I am not looking as much for a mouthfeel as a hop feel. I want them dry and hoppy.

I had a problem with mouthfeel on my less hop driven beers for a while before I decided to use a less attenuative yeast like S-04. This allowed me to mash at a reasonable temperature while gaining a little more body in my beer. I found that the betaglucens mentioned above do help to a point as well.

It goes against convetional wisdom, but you might try a very short protein rest.

The two major components that provide body to a beer are short chain dextrins and PROTEIN. But nobody seems to want to mess with the proteins, only with the dextrins (by varying saccharification temps). That limits what you can do. If you are not getting what you want by messing with Saccharification temps, then it is time to look at the other major component. After all, what is the likelihood that all of the malsters now produce malt with just the perfect amount of protein modification for all beer styles?

All of my lagers (really any beer with a lg. amt. of Pils malt including Kolsch, Alt, and Belgian ales) undergo a p-rest, of AT MOST 20 min. I've even taken to doing a p-rest with my ales (pale malts), but never more than 5 min. and for my last IPA I mashed in at 122*F and then immediately started to raise the temp to my sacch. temp. of 154*F (it took 20 min.). This wort foamed like a crazy SOB when filling the carboy.

I also agree that yeast strain and can make a big difference.

Interesting. I always thought dry meant lighter body. What do you guys mean by dry and more body?

Matt Up North said:

Might I ask the yeast used?

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I think this has a lot to do with it and is one of the reasons WY1450 became one of my favorite yeasts. I've brewed split batches with US-05 and 1450. Both finished at the same FG but the 05 made the beer seem much thinner, while the 1450 made was dry but with a silky mouthfeel.

Matt Up North said:

Might I ask the yeast used?

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US-05

ten characters.

Denny said:

I think this has a lot to do with it and is one of the reasons WY1450 became one of my favorite yeasts. I've brewed split batches with US-05 and 1450. Both finished at the same FG but the 05 made the beer seem much thinner, while the 1450 made was dry but with a silky mouthfeel.

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That is the same reason I really like White labs Saison II (platinum strain). I've had great luck with getting it to attenuate well, but still have a nice full taste. I had a 10% ABV Saison that finished out at 1.006, but had judges say it finished too high?!? What I found with this yeast is that something about the yeast itself gives the beers a sweetish taste (suggestive of a higher FG). After this beer had been on tap for a while, I had to move it around and during the process some sediment was stirred up (naturally carbed). The next few pints were cloudy of course, but also much "sweeter" than before. A couple days later, the beer was clear again, and less sweet.

the only beer that I fermented super dry that still felt as though it had mouthfeel are my bigger Belgians and my IIPA's. I think that it has to do mainly with the amount of malt. That said, when fermenting 1.060 beers, I find that you have to adjust both mash temp and yeast strain so that you don't overdry a beer and make it just taste thin (while hitting that sweet spot of not thick and sweet). I had a lot of problem with my 1.045 stout that kept hitting 1.012 when I wanted 1.016. Changing to English Yeast and mashing insanely high is what really kept it correct for me.

Denny said:

I think this has a lot to do with it and is one of the reasons WY1450 became one of my favorite yeasts. I've brewed split batches with US-05 and 1450. Both finished at the same FG but the 05 made the beer seem much thinner, while the 1450 made was dry but with a silky mouthfeel.

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http://www.wyeastlab.com/Q3PC2009.cfm
lol. He really means it.

Actually, it's not a seasonal any more....it's now available year round!

Cliff897 said:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/Q3PC2009.cfm
lol. He really means it.

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damn! I wish I had known about that yeast, sounds awesome