oops
The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread
- Thread starter Reno_eNVy
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
oops
I did have a laugh at Swans supporters singing either "He's one of our own" or "He scores when he wants" (depending on who's report you read, probably both).
That was unpleasant and his confidence obviously and understandably took a dive after that.
If we're talking about Klinsmann, we need a real upgrade, someone who can both bring in lots of young talent through reputation/personality and deploy excellent tactics. The problem is that there aren't a lot of coaches like that that will work for about $2 million per year.
OP
OP
Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
I have 0 respect for anything DOnovan has said about Klinsmann. He's clearly butthurt about not being picked, and was probably one of th eguys causing internal lockerroom strife. We basically know Bocanegra was one of them, Landycakes may have been too, but was too good to be left off the team.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Only negative PR with Klinsmann is involving MLS which has to do a lot with taking interviews out of context. Klinsmann is a challenging manager, he tries to make people feel uneasy, including MLS which is pretty much what has to improve if the USMNT improve their future prospects.
Tactics leave a lot to be desired, but I think they're massively overstated. What USMNT manager has amazing tactical ability? Arena doesn't. Bradley doesn't. People act like Klinsmann is say Marty "We'll take the Wind" Mornhinweg
Yeah, pfft. That's peasant money
Compare that to say, Mourinho, that is making $17 million per year and yeah, it is actually. In fact, pretty much all national team coaching positions are about passion more than they are about pay, Klinsmann is one of the highest paid national team coaches in the world, but that's peanuts compared to what most top level European teams pay their coaches.
BrewSavage
Well-Known Member
I think we might need two threads:
- This thread for soccer, to include all things American.
- Another thread for across the pond football; all things EPL and champions league.
Did you see that Carrragher compared liverpool to the Spurs.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/jamie-carragher-liverpool-theyre-becoming-6575160
I always wonder what would of happened had Chelsea not won the Uefa Championship in 2012 and kicked the spurs out of going to CL in 2013. They were the most exciting team to watch that year in the PL, then Redknapp got the boot.
I tried starting an MLS thread...but nobody seemed interested.
I would figure there are few enough of us that follow the sport on this forum that there's no need to split it. And I'm sure while most of us have our league we follow, most of us pay attention to others to at least some degree, and either way i know i have no problem keeping the EPL/MLS/USMNT/whatever else conversations separate.
Did you see that Carrragher compared liverpool to the Spurs.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/jamie-carragher-liverpool-theyre-becoming-6575160
I always wonder what would of happened had Chelsea not won the Uefa Championship in 2012 and kicked the spurs out of going to CL in 2013. They were the most exciting team to watch that year in the PL, then Redknapp got the boot.
Yep. I saw. And I remember. But the thing is, Spurs have been better than Liverpool in recent years.
OP
OP
Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
Nah he can talk **** about MLS, don't care. But his go-to move is throw the players under the bus to cover his bad decisions.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
I don't ever recall reading him throwing players under the bus. I mean he's done the "we need to produce better on the pitch" thing but that's hardly throwing players under the bus. If that's throwing players under the Bus Jose Mourinho has thrown an army of players under the bus.
Oh, forgot to mention, but in case you missed it, the U-23's won against Panama 4-0. They've cruised into first place atop their group and they'll face either Mexico or Honduras (probably Honduras) to officially earn a spot in the Olympics. There's a playoff for first place (important for seeding, as I recall) but the next game is the most crucial.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
1-0 Mexico right now in the 23rd minute. Draw or win has Mexico go atop the group.
I'm kind of sad we don't get Mexico next round, I'd love to eliminate them from locking up Olympic qualifying.
I really hate Mexico.
10/10 is gonna be great. Have a shot to qualify for both the Olympics and Confederations Cup
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
surprised there isn't much hype around Klopp going to Liverpool.
I don't think they gave rodgers enough time. No Suarez, No Sturridge sill finished pretty high. Liverpool are idiots remember when they did not want to spend 7 million for Dempsey so they had one striker on the team for Europa, PL, FA, and so on. 1 striker
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2008
- Messages
- 12,262
- Reaction score
- 733
I think they gave him too long. He paid $30,000,000 for Dejan Lovren because he had what seemed like a great defensive record without understanding that Lovren needed quality protection from good defensive midfielders......Nearly $40,000,000 for Lallana without even having a slot for him in his team,.....On top of that, he would make a complete ******* statement almost every week.
He has no place at a big club IMO
BrewSavage
Well-Known Member
I think the name "Klopp" is just so off-putting it kills hype. I'm sure he's a fine person and a true professional blah blah blah butwhat editor is going voluntarily used the word Klopp in headline?
I blame the whole Being Liverpool thing. It made everyone's flesh just creep.
Johannsson is out "indefinitely" with a nerve problem in his right hip. As someone who had to have nerves removed from his foot, let me just say that nerve issues suck and they're very difficult to pin down. Hopefully he doesn't need surgery or something like that.
http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnatio...invited-kickabout-kid-to-wembley-to-watch-him
Because Harry is an awesome person.
Because Harry is an awesome person.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
When Pep moves to City this offseason (after their inevitable collapse and United or Arsenal win the league) Klopp will be hired away from Liverpool to coach Bayern. There's no hype because it's almost a forgone conclusion. Klopp is going to move along from Liverpool before his contract is up or right at the end. Maybe to Bayern, maybe to Manchester, maybe to Real, he's gonna go somewhere bigger, this is a slight step up from Dortmund, but not really a big one.
Well, the USA U-23's are probably not going to the Olympics now. They lost 2-0 to Honduras in a game that really showed their lack of pro experience. Jordan Morris recently said that he doesn't want to leave his "brothers" at Stanford for the struggle of the pro locker room, well if he and the rest of this U-23 want to keep playing for the USMNT they'll need to leave college to get experience, and soon. USA will face the loser of Mexico vs Canada (probably Canada) for the right to face Columbia (gulp) in Rio (dammit) to get in, they probably won't get in.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
**** Rafa Marquez. USA! USA! USA!
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Mexico came out with a plan that worked out way better than our play. We assumed they'd stick to their 3-5-2 or whatever, and they didn't. THey went with a 4-3-3 where basically it was kind of similar to a 3-4-3 where Marquez held a lot and their fullbacks were basically pouncing forward at any given moment.
We failed to keep their fullbacks honest. If we had succeeded in the doing that we cruise to victory. That falls pretty heavily on our wide players. Jones and Zardes didn't do enough. And Beckerman sucked. It's time for Klinsmann to retire him. I know that he's better than many other players we have but just throw Jones into that role, if he hates it then bench him and use Williams or Edu.
US has a lot of room to grow but 2 things are clear, Beasley and Beckerman can't compete with really good clubs any more.
I'd mostly agree with hippo's assessment. However, one thing I absolutely noticed is just how old the team that hit the field was, and how much we improved when the young guys (Yedlin and Bobby Wood) came in. I think it's worth noting that Klinsmann got his best results with young players, as a general rule, kids who weren't set in the old ways of the USMNT. All of the older players, like Beasley, Beckerman and Jones, looked exhausted by the 60 minute mark or so, and there simply weren't enough subs to fix things. I think that if Klinsmann really wants to change things up, he has to use a mostly young team. Keep Bradley, Altidore, Guzan, Howard, maybe Dempsey and some of the back line players like Besler and Cameron, but go young, toss the kids in there and see how they do.
So, overshadowed by the USMNT loss, on Saturday Montreal beat Colorado off a fantastic Didier Drogba goal from a free kick (seriously, go watch it if you haven't seen it) not only almost guarantees a playoff spot for Montreal, but it is also kicked NYCFC out of the playoff race. NYCFC is MLS's ugly baby, a team that nobody but the commissioner's office and a handful of die-hard fans really loved, let's look at how they did.
Why does this matter to the USMNT?
One of the USMNT"s best attacking midfielders, Mix Diskerud, is a regular starter for New York City, also the 2nd pick in the MLS draft, Khiry Shelton, is a great up and coming striker (if he can stay healthy).
How are they out?
With two games left, NYCFC need 8 points.
What went wrong?
In a certain sense, nothing, my theory as an expansion is that if you aren't last, you had a good season. But NYCFC came in with bigger expectations, they talked some smack they couldn't back up and like a lot of cross-branded teams (Chivas USA, for example) management arrogantly thought that simply by being affiliated with a successful foreign club this MLS club would dominate. In a lot of ways, it's hard to really say it was all that arrogant though, Jason Kreis was (and still is, really) one of the best "young" coaches in MLS, he took bottom dwelling RSL to an MLS Cup and kept them in the running every single season while he was in charge; surely giving him coaching tips in Manchester and then giving him a bigger roster (in terms of salary) was all that was necessary to create a juggernaut.
Unfortunately, the juggernaut did not materialize, and even Jason Kreis admitted that this was a lot harder than he thought it would be. The biggest money on the team, mega stars Lampard and Pirlo, perhaps exhausted and beaten up after playing a full year of European football, have generally looked slow and anemic. But the age issue goes beyond Lampard and Pirlo, in the expansion draft Jason Kreis reached almost exclusively for veteran talents, many of them players that once played for him such as Chris Wingert and Ned Grabavoy; overall 15 of 23 first team players were over 25 years old, most of them in their thirties, making NYCFC the oldest team in MLS. Age showed when NYCFC played against swift, young talent and not in a good way.
What went right?
Despite his age, David Villa played excellent football all year, if Khiry Shelton can avoid injuries he's shown he can be one of the deadliest young strikers in MLS; given a full year of play he may have beaten the old rookie goal scoring record alongside Cyle Larin. Josh Saunders showed he can still do well between the sticks.
What do they need to do improve?
For starters, ideally, NYCFC should use that big Yankee money to cryogenically freeze Pirlo, Villa and Lampard; if that's not feasible, instead they need to make sure none of them go on a European loan. Buy them all expenses paid vacation to somewhere sunny and warm for two months if you have to. More than that, this team needs to pick up some young talent, because a lot of their current talent is getting to the age where things just to start to fail and retirement becomes more and more attractive. Fortunately, NYCFC should have some a good SuperDraft pick to help speed that process up. Possibly a couple of trades could be in order as well.
Why does this matter to the USMNT?
One of the USMNT"s best attacking midfielders, Mix Diskerud, is a regular starter for New York City, also the 2nd pick in the MLS draft, Khiry Shelton, is a great up and coming striker (if he can stay healthy).
How are they out?
With two games left, NYCFC need 8 points.
What went wrong?
In a certain sense, nothing, my theory as an expansion is that if you aren't last, you had a good season. But NYCFC came in with bigger expectations, they talked some smack they couldn't back up and like a lot of cross-branded teams (Chivas USA, for example) management arrogantly thought that simply by being affiliated with a successful foreign club this MLS club would dominate. In a lot of ways, it's hard to really say it was all that arrogant though, Jason Kreis was (and still is, really) one of the best "young" coaches in MLS, he took bottom dwelling RSL to an MLS Cup and kept them in the running every single season while he was in charge; surely giving him coaching tips in Manchester and then giving him a bigger roster (in terms of salary) was all that was necessary to create a juggernaut.
Unfortunately, the juggernaut did not materialize, and even Jason Kreis admitted that this was a lot harder than he thought it would be. The biggest money on the team, mega stars Lampard and Pirlo, perhaps exhausted and beaten up after playing a full year of European football, have generally looked slow and anemic. But the age issue goes beyond Lampard and Pirlo, in the expansion draft Jason Kreis reached almost exclusively for veteran talents, many of them players that once played for him such as Chris Wingert and Ned Grabavoy; overall 15 of 23 first team players were over 25 years old, most of them in their thirties, making NYCFC the oldest team in MLS. Age showed when NYCFC played against swift, young talent and not in a good way.
What went right?
Despite his age, David Villa played excellent football all year, if Khiry Shelton can avoid injuries he's shown he can be one of the deadliest young strikers in MLS; given a full year of play he may have beaten the old rookie goal scoring record alongside Cyle Larin. Josh Saunders showed he can still do well between the sticks.
What do they need to do improve?
For starters, ideally, NYCFC should use that big Yankee money to cryogenically freeze Pirlo, Villa and Lampard; if that's not feasible, instead they need to make sure none of them go on a European loan. Buy them all expenses paid vacation to somewhere sunny and warm for two months if you have to. More than that, this team needs to pick up some young talent, because a lot of their current talent is getting to the age where things just to start to fail and retirement becomes more and more attractive. Fortunately, NYCFC should have some a good SuperDraft pick to help speed that process up. Possibly a couple of trades could be in order as well.
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
USMNT gameplan v Mexico:
Plan A. Work it up the left to Jones. Have jones get surrounded by 5 mexico players & either lose ball or concede throw in.
Plan B. In the off chance we get a counter attack, get the ball to Jozy & have him put the breaks on the counter attack by holding up play at the wrong time.
Plan A. Work it up the left to Jones. Have jones get surrounded by 5 mexico players & either lose ball or concede throw in.
Plan B. In the off chance we get a counter attack, get the ball to Jozy & have him put the breaks on the counter attack by holding up play at the wrong time.
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
I was being sarcastic.
Ace_Club
Well-Known Member
Spot on with Plan B. Don't know why we keep putting Altidore in if he's not going to use his size and speed to his advantage. Like you said, he gets the ball and then holds up and the attack dies.
jspain3
Well-Known Member
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
So what is the consensus from everyone on should he stay or go?
Doesn't look like the USMNT will be involved in the copa America next year. More or less building toward Russia 2018 now. U-23s look to be out of the Olympics (pretty much directly related to JK planning/policy). Seems like if a change is needed, there is no better time than after the Costa Rica friendly.
Doesn't look like the USMNT will be involved in the copa America next year. More or less building toward Russia 2018 now. U-23s look to be out of the Olympics (pretty much directly related to JK planning/policy). Seems like if a change is needed, there is no better time than after the Costa Rica friendly.
Ace_Club
Well-Known Member
Regardless of our consensus, Klinsmann is going to stay. I'll admit I don't like everything Klinsmann does, but for his salary it's going to be very hard to find a better coach to move the program forward. As long as Klinsmann can keep getting great performances out of young players that will hopefully, one day be regulars, I'm fine with him staying. My only gripe is that I think Klinsmann needs an assistant coach with a good mind for tactics, and he doesn't seem to have that right now.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Dempsey was not providing and cover from the front.
Sadly he has not been great since the gold cup. I think their master plan was to have Jones, Bradley and Dempsey work together to cut the wide open mexican middle, but it just never worked.
