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This is going to be 99.8% ineffective. You absolutely must have some sort of hood that is larger than your kettle over the top of it.



Especially with a modest 110 CFM it won't hardly pull any steam in where it's located.


While I agree, a modest 110 cfm fan is not ideal, it will still provide some needed ventilation. In a small room, say 10 x 10, 110 cfm will move the total room volume approx every 8 minutes. A hood is a great way to capture undesirables, but we are only talking water vapor here.

With such low exhaust volume, you will likely need a second small fan to mix the room air to avoid steam collecting at the ceiling.

Likely need to run the ventilation for an hour or so after the boil to reduce the humidity spike.

I brew in my basement with just a fan in an open window, it's what I had in hand and figured I'd give it a try. Is it the best, of course not...but it is certainly adequate IMHO.

We are not talking poison gasses here that MUST be captured and exhausted, a more global approach to ventilation works as well in my experience.

Are there any windows in this brew space that could supplement the ventilation?

I agree w schematix, 110 cfm is inadequate, I just feel 99.8% ineffective is a bit harsh.

How steam tolerant are you?
 
Im not sure of your situation but you may want to consider a larger exhaust unit or possibly several smaller units. In theory you will change the room air once every 10 minutes but the problem is that the water in the steam won't stay in suspension that long. You are going to have condensation pretty quickly. Running a dehumidifier for a while after brewing will save you headaches down the road.
 
Another thing to watch out for is your exhaust line. From the fan, the exhaust line really needs to be run with a slight down slope. And the run needs to be as short as possible. Otherwise the steam/humid air will condense inside the line and the condensation will run back down into your fan housing and even overflow back into the room given enough condensation. Which may be another reason to rig up some sort of vent hood so you can mount the exhaust fan high and run the exhaust line with a down slope to the outside world.
 
Thanks for all the ventilation input. I have some sheet metal I can form into a removable shroud that would still let me use a pulley with the BIAB. I was also thinking about making a track that I can move the fan over the kettle during the boil, then push it out of the way. I'm also considering a 30 - minute boil and/or keep a nice rolling boil, but not too vigorous.
I did an improvised "smoke tube" to see if the fan pulls air from the far side of the kettle. It worked somewhat, but I'll upgrade to a bigger fan like the Dayton that twotaurwean recommended or a vortex that a number of people use.
Any of these should get me above 0.2% effective ;).
 
I agree w schematix, 110 cfm is inadequate, I just feel 99.8% ineffective is a bit harsh.

How steam tolerant are you?

I was actually being optimistic with the 99.8% :)

If the goal is to remove the steam, with a 110cfm fan, without a hood, it will be 100% ineffective. The steam will just hit the ceiling and condense. A fan mounted halfway up the wall won't even be pulling out steam. It's going to be pulling out ambient air.

The 110cfm fan with a hood, might be a tad better than 99.8% ineffective.
 
I was actually being optimistic with the 99.8% :)

If the goal is to remove the steam, with a 110cfm fan, without a hood, it will be 100% ineffective. The steam will just hit the ceiling and condense. A fan mounted halfway up the wall won't even be pulling out steam. It's going to be pulling out ambient air.

The 110cfm fan with a hood, might be a tad better than 99.8% ineffective.

The goal is to remove humidity. The steam begins to mix with ambient as soon as it is created, hence by removing ambient you are removing steam. A small fan in the room to keep ambient moving will help to avoid condensation on the ceiling. Passive ventilation is to let the kettle steam mix with ambient, then exhaust ambient to reduce humidity. Works well in my basement, YMMV
 
Here's what I can try once I get the element working. I'll do some water boiloff tests and measure room temp and relative humidity at two points in the room every 5 minutes for an hour or until it rains. I'll try it as-is, with a hood, and with the fan directly over the BK, then I'll report back.
In the meantime, I have a few more parts to pick up then put it together with my electrician (dad). Good father /son bonding, except that he only drinks Bud light.
 
I'm looking at buying the Mypin Pt100 RTD off Amazon, and I have two questions- 1) It looks like there's a nut that comes with the probe; can I use that with a washer/ hi-temp O-ring, or is there a different weldless bulkhead I need to get for this? If so, 2) is this thing standard or metric threads? The description seems to lead me towards metric. Thoughts?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X6RIARO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

41HBll-vfFL.jpg
 
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I am planning to hang a rubbermaid tote upside down over the kettle with a tap cut in it. Cheap and easy. Looking at this fan in the 6" size. Hyrdofarm
 
I am planning to hang a rubbermaid tote upside down over the kettle with a tap cut in it. Cheap and easy. Looking at this fan in the 6" size. Hyrdofarm

The hydroponic fans seem to be pretty popular. I'll probably go down that route or the aforementioned Dayton fan if this setup fails miserably.
 
I'm looking at buying the Mypin Pt100 RTD off Amazon, and I have two questions- 1) It looks like there's a nut that comes with the probe; can I use that with a washer/ hi-temp O-ring, or is there a different weldless bulkhead I need to get for this? If so, 2) is this thing standard or metric threads? The description seems to lead me towards metric. Thoughts?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X6RIARO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

There is a Q & A section on the link for this product. It says 1/4"... more than likely 20 tpi (I'll be ordering a few too) My plan is to just weld that nut into any location where I put probes, or drill and tap female threads. Surely any hardware store can source additional identical nuts once you have the product in hand.
 
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There is a Q & A section on the link for this product. It says 1/4"... more than likely 20 tpi (I'll be ordering a few too) My plan is to just weld that nut into any location where I put probes, or drill and tap female threads. Surely any hardware store can source additional identical nuts once you have the product in hand.

I guess it pays to read the whole thing. There's another post in the Q & A that says metric. I'll just but it and see what it is when it shows up.
 
I'm looking at buying the Mypin Pt100 RTD off Amazon, and I have two questions- 1) It looks like there's a nut that comes with the probe; can I use that with a washer/ hi-temp O-ring, or is there a different weldless bulkhead I need to get for this? If so, 2) is this thing standard or metric threads? The description seems to lead me towards metric. Thoughts?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X6RIARO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
For temp a temp probe I went with a thermowell I had laying around and this for a probe so it's easily removed for cleaning http://www.ebay.com/itm/261407840292

I am planning to hang a rubbermaid tote upside down over the kettle with a tap cut in it. Cheap and easy. Looking at this fan in the 6" size. Hyrdofarm
I got this fan http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009LCEUEK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 and this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007TFTITS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 to control the speed. Works great and is relatively quite.
 
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my only comment on that particular fan is that the electrical junction box is on the bottom of the fan housing. it is all but impossible to get no condensation in the housing, need to ensure the box is well sealed up to keep water away from energized components.

Maybe mount it from the wall instead of the ceiling so the junction box is not on the bottom??
 
Maybe mount it from the wall instead of the ceiling so the junction box is not on the bottom??

the mounting 'bars' that come with the fan are pretty flimsy and really only designed to work with supporting by above and hanging. i suppose you could relocate them but would need to drill some extra holes in the fan housing. not an impossible task but something to keep in mind.
 
Can't you just turn them around? Then the box is on top.

possibly, depends on the mounting surface. if it is a totally flat ceiling, might be a tight squeeze between the box and the ceiling. plus, you couldn't get the cover off the junction box if you ever needed to (not without taking the whole fan down). if it was mounted to ceiling joists in an unfinished basement, might not be a big deal.
 
I have ceiling joist availability, so mounting shouldn't be a problem.
In the meantime, I'm still playing with the 110 CFM fan. I built a shroud tonight. Seems to improve airflow. Kind of hard to tell from the picture, but it extends to the front of the BK and widens out to the width of the kettle.

View attachment 1453777324537.jpg
 
I may have had a good idea....
Make out of anything...sheet metal, plexi, sealed plywood...

Unfolded, this is against your wall, out of the way of the pulley and whatnot. Once it's time to cook, fold it down and viola! A vent hood!

This is where I got my inspiration. Thanks narcolepticsniper!
 
It's been a while since the last update. I think I'm going to drill through the foundation with a hammer drill, provided the vent will come out above grade.
In the meantime, I've been working on the panel and added the element and RTD to the kettle.
attachment.php


It passed the leak test!
attachment.php


The panel is in-progress, waiting on a fuse holder and an illuminated switch from Auber, that I'll put in below the PID. This has been fun to build. I was going to try to have a detailed panel build, but really, the gold standard is itsnotrequired's build thread. I've been watching that one closely, as well as Brundog's build thread and Kal's website. I should have it finished next weekend and have my electrician check it out before plugging it in. :mug:
attachment.php
 
Thanks! I tried to plan out enough room for a second element/ PID, but we'll see how I like BIAB. Here's the finished interior. Next is to seal the base of the element, since it isn't stainless. Note to self: get a stainless base next time. Also, still working on ventilation. I'm over my original budget, but I should be able to use this system without having to add to it much.

View attachment 1457918375892.jpg
 
Today: ventilation complete. Drilled then chiseled out a 4" hole for the exhaust vent. Then crawled under the deck to install it. It was a big PITA that I'm glad to have done.
Had to remove a section of duct to get access.
Also mounted the control panel and made a little base for the kettle.
Next up is a ventilation test to see how the 110 CFM fan holds up.
 
Really coming together, I like your control box too. Nice job!

John

Thanks! I think I should be able to have a brew day in two weeks, which is good since my keg is going to kick soon and I have nothing in the pipeline. I'm thinking either Yooper's pale ale recipe or a Stone Pale ale clone. I think either would be a good brew for the new system.
 
Boil test complete! I wanted to measure the impact of the fan in controlling moisture. I was able to do a 30-minute boil with no fan and a 60-minute boil with the 110 cfm fan on. Here's the results:
No fan:
final humidity (30 min): 71.9%
Increase from preboil humidity: 27.5%
With fan:
final humidity (60 min): 66.8%
Increase from preboil humidity: 14.1%

Looking at absolute humidity improvement, it's 7% lower humidity, and beats schmatix's 99.8% ineffective. Not to be a di*k, but I wanted to prove/ disprove the thesis. Looking at the change from the initial room humidity, it's a 49% improvement, which looks pretty good. I didn't use the hood I made, but I think that will only help.
Future state, a bigger fan will help, but the free fan will get me by for now. Long story short, I think I'm a go for a brew this weekend. :rockin
 
Boil test complete! I wanted to measure the impact of the fan in controlling moisture. I was able to do a 30-minute boil with no fan and a 60-minute boil with the 110 cfm fan on. Here's the results:
No fan:
final humidity (30 min): 71.9%
Increase from preboil humidity: 27.5%
With fan:
final humidity (60 min): 66.8%
Increase from preboil humidity: 14.1%

Looking at absolute humidity improvement, it's 7% lower humidity, and beats schmatix's 99.8% ineffective. Not to be a di*k, but I wanted to prove/ disprove the thesis. Looking at the change from the initial room humidity, it's a 49% improvement, which looks pretty good. I didn't use the hood I made, but I think that will only help.
Future state, a bigger fan will help, but the free fan will get me by for now. Long story short, I think I'm a go for a brew this weekend. :rockin

Someone on the forum Incorporated a 100cfm fan into a lid for their kettle and had it act as a direct vent outside (short run) and it was rather effective.
 
Looking at absolute humidity improvement, it's 7% lower humidity, and beats schmatix's 99.8% ineffective. Not to be a di*k, but I wanted to prove/ disprove the thesis. Looking at the change from the initial room humidity, it's a 49% improvement, which looks pretty good. I didn't use the hood I made, but I think that will only help.
Future state, a bigger fan will help, but the free fan will get me by for now. Long story short, I think I'm a go for a brew this weekend. :rockin

I'm glad I was able to motivate you. :)

My "99.8% ineffective" statement wasn't saying you'd only get a 0.2% reduction in humidity. The statement meant that you were 99.8% likely going to have extremely levels of humidity. Your numbers show you have extremely high humidity levels.

I keep my basement brewery around 35-40% humidity for most of the year (drops naturally to 25% in the winter). A brew day will only increase it temporarily by about 10% and is back down to normal within 2 hours afterwards.

Ultimately it is whatever you are comfortable with though. I didn't like condensation dripping on my head and running down the walls (which are permanently stained from a single brew day).

You've at least done some tests at this point that you are confident in. Might as well brew on it and see how it performs for the real deal. Looking forward to hear how it goes.
 
I'd categorize the humidity change as tolerable for a brew day, at least for now. The humidity drops down pretty quickly once I stop the boil and have the fan on. I have a dehumidifier I can try as well.
I have been checking out vortex fans and will probably go to a similar setup as what you have some time down the road.
 
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