El-Cheapo Mash Out Procedures

Ok, I may be a moron who just didn't read enough on doing a proper mash-out with the Cooler model mash tun that I use. I have about 8 AG sessions under my belt and have not done a Mash Out procedure. Beer's good so wanted to ask others what you do to mash out with this setup (or if you do).

What I've been doing is the saccharification Rest at whatever temp (152 etc). I recycle a gal or so to clear up the wort and then just start sparging with my Phil's Sparge arm with 168 water. I.e., never doing a true mash out at 168 step. I went to a live AG training class locally with similar setup this past summer and I don't recall him doing a mash out either.

In reviewing the cruisenews site again, it looks as though he recycles, then drains all wort to kettle, adds 170 water back in, stirs & lets sit. Then drains again. Doesn't seem like he does a slow rinse sparge. This is a batch sparge right? I could see doing his procedure to mash out (should I stir?) then use the sparge arm like I've done in the past. Isn't a slow rinse/sparge better than batch sparge?

What do you do?

Sounds like a batch sparge to me. I started out doing standard sparges, but switched to batch sparging when I got a larger tun. I generally do two sparge runs with recirculation. I don't know if they are more or less efficient, but they are certainly easier and faster.

You're doing a fly, the cruisenews site is doing a batch. You could do a simple mash out by doing your mash as you're doing, then calculating how much boiling water to add to raise the temp to 168F, then begin sparging. It gets your bed to 168F in a single step, instead of on a slow curve as you add 168F sparge water. AFAIK the main benefit is liquifying the wort to get a better flow and hence more sugars. I've also seen 'denaturing the enzymes' given as a reason, but I figure that's going to happen in the boil anyways?

BeeGee said:

You're doing a fly, the cruisenews site is doing a batch. You could do a simple mash out by doing your mash as you're doing, then calculating how much boiling water to add to raise the temp to 168F, then begin sparging. It gets your bed to 168F in a single step, instead of on a slow curve as you add 168F sparge water. AFAIK the main benefit is liquifying the wort to get a better flow and hence more sugars. I've also seen 'denaturing the enzymes' given as a reason, but I figure that's going to happen in the boil anyways?

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Got you on the additional to get to 168. (I knew I shouldn't have purchased a 5g cooler!). Yea, no room. Off to the store again .

I thought mash out @ 168 was to halt the conversion process... taste or something. Would have to re-read that stuff.

desertBrew said:

Got you on the additional to get to 168. (I knew I shouldn't have purchased a 5g cooler!). Yea, no room. Off to the store again .

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I wouldn't rush out just for that! I used a 5g for a while and upgraded just for the capacity to do bigger beers, which is what will eventually drive you to the store. You could also raise the temperature of your sparge water which would get you in the upper 160's faster, just making sure you don't go over 170.

I guess I'm screwed up too. After giving up on mashing in a electric roaster (worked, but slow and not precise) I 've been using a 34 quart ice chest. But I'm always to hot, or to cold, so always adding more water. The cooler is filled to the brim when I start to strain it, so I haven't been able to add 168 deg water yet. I just recycle a gallon of the wort for clarity, and drain it until it doesn't not sweet. My guess is that the 168 sparge is just hotter to rinse the sugar out better? 9 pounds of grain in 5 gals, makes 1.053 SG, and 5-6%drinkable beer, for $17, so why worry? But there may be room for improvement....

My procedure is to add the water first and let it stabilize at my strike temp, then add the grains. It seems to work pretty accurately. You do need to let the water (or mash after you add grains) sit for 5-10 minutes before deciding what the temperature is as there are gradients and hot spots involved in the process. If you try to measure to quickly you'll get caught in a downward spiral of adding hot/cold water.

I just use initial water at 168 to get the correct stike temp. Drain all the wort (after initial recycle) then batch sparge all ate one at 170 to get the mash out temp. stir leave for a few minutes to equalise temp then drain again. (after initial recycle)

So in theory the 170 water should stop the enzyme activity. (mash out)

I've mentioned this before in another thread, but I've noticed a problem in bigger beers with mashing out and then trying for a proper sparge (especially when mashing with 1.5 quarts/gallon). In your mash, you already have a lot of water, then you add more for mashout. You might end up needing only a half-gallon or gallon for sparge to get your target pre-boil amount. I've done that before, and as a result, I've gotten efficiency numbers in the low to mid sixties. I'm not sure how to improve this.

FWIW, I don't fark with a mash-out either. It is just too hard to get the right temp in a cooler with boiling water, IMHO.

Once I get a bigger cooler and can practice it a few times, I might start doing it.

I look at it this way. I'm satisfied with my beers, so unless something starts getting screwed up, I'm not going to make my brew day more stressful by dong stuff that really might not have to be done.

It all hinges on if you are satisfied with your beers though.

orfy said:

I just use initial water at 168 to get the correct stike temp. Drain all the wort (after initial recycle) then batch sparge all ate one at 170 to get the mash out temp. stir leave for a few minutes to equalise temp then drain again. (after initial recycle)

So in theory the 170 water should stop the enzyme activity. (mash out)

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Explain that further? It doesn't sound like you are accounting for a temp loss once you add the 170° water? I'll bet you are actually sparging with about 150-155° water.....

If I understand correctly, the only problem that could come from leaving active enzymes for too long is a beer that is thinner (and has less head retention) than desired. If you don't mash out, and your beer has sufficient head retention and mouth feel to meet your expectations, then it should be fine.

ORRELSE said:

FWIW, I don't fark with a mash-out either. It is just too hard to get the right temp in a cooler with boiling water, IMHO.

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Man, I'll have to agree with that one. Even with ProMash, where it tells you the quantity and temperature to get to your target mash-out, it still seems to be off! Next time, we might forego the mashout.

I think some of the "conventional wisdom" about brewing comes from what commercial brewers do on a large scale. I have brewed many award winning ales without worrying about raising the mash to 170. This may have some implications to some styles but my experience has been that with most ales it doesn't make much difference. If your getting good yields and your beer tastes good don't worry. Attention to basic sanitation and yeast health will make much more differences that the mechanics of the mash.

TT