How to brew better beer? or How I learned to love so so bitter beer/RDWHAHB

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artyusmc

artyusmc

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Long title for what i think is a common probelm. I have brewed 6- 5 gallon batches and after learning to stir, mointer boil overs and fermentation temps, i still end up with so so biter beer. I did do an ESB lager that was drinkable, other then that I hate to say it but I have not been impressed with home brew. I have done extract / steeping grains and one partial mash.

Any advice or comments would be helpful but I'm up to my neck with RDWHAHB (yes I've made beer but now i want it to taste good). :(
 
Thanx for your reply i will attempt to answer.

Santize everything a day before fermentation bucket spitgots, lids and lids. Bleach vinger mix then rinse three times. Then day of brew Starsan everything. Oxidize brew pot, empty.

I have done extracts with steeping grains per more beer instructions. then begin brew day full boil. Bring 6 1/2 gallons to boil, remove off heat. Add LME, stir in slowly. Then restart boil. Once it reaches boil start clock 60 minutes, add drops to avoid boilovers stir and spray water as need to avoid boil overs add hopps last 5 min and at last minute of boil per instructions.

Ice bath and with immersion cooler get it down to about 70. Dump in to fermentation bucket using paint filter to filter trub/ hop pellets. Check temp, take hydro reading and pitch (sprinkle) dry yeast. seal lid and store. Check daily watching fermentation and temp. Wait 4 weeks, wash old and new bottels in deep sink scrub labels clean with brush rinse throughly. take hydro reading if good Run 2 cases of bottles thru dishwasher santizing /baterial twice. Then bottle (which are still a little warm too the touch. Cap wait one day test, wait 1 week test and wait 4 weeks test, then stop tracking store in frig drink occansionaly while still drinking store bought beer. :(
 
Think we've found your problem. The bitterness in beer comes from boiling the hops for the full 60 minutes (sometimes longer). Hops put in at 5-10 minutes are commonly called flavor hops and hops at flameout would be aroma hops. You're instructions lack bittering hops.
 
no. I bring to full boil stop remove from heat stir in LME then put back on burner bring to boil start 60 minutes boil time at last 5 or 10 minutes addd hopps add hops last minute or at flameout (end of boil)
 
If you haven't gathered by now, you should be putting hops in at the beginning of the boil. The boil will extract the alpha acids from the hops and result in bitterness for your beer.
 
that's fine.. the most important one is the first addition. I'd put the last one in with just a few minutes left in the boil.
 
I'm not sure what they're giving you. I've done a couple of B3 kits, years ago, and they always included a bittering addition. I would take another look at the instructions and make sure you aren't reading them incorrectly. The number of additions doesn't necessarily mean anything. Some kits come with one bittering (60 minute) addition and that's it. Sometimes they will also have flavor and aroma additions, depends on the type of beer.
 
artyusmc said:
on the extract /steeping grain kits they only provide two different hop pellets.
Click to expand...

Can you quote us the directions? A very few beers get all of their bittering from late hop additions, but 98% of the recipes out there with two hop packets should require you to add one addition at the beginning of your 60 min boil and another addition at the very end.
 
The only real reason to boil for 60 minutes is to extract the bitterness from your hops. If you're waiting til the last 5-10 minutes to add your hops you probably could have just been doing 15 minute boils to make sure your extract was pasteurized and walked away with the same results youre having now.
 
I was wondering how the hops could react in such a short amount of time then filtered out with the trub?? so I've been doing it all wrong???
 
artyusmc said:
I was wondering how the hops could react in such a short amount of time then filtered out with the trub?? so I've been doing it all wrong???
Click to expand...

No, you've been doing it MOSTLY right - just this one thing with the hops was totally wrong :D
 
I have read on HBT espesially from revy and others perfect your techniques before trying partial mash or all grain.

So after stirring in LME , bring back to boil start clock, add hops for 60 minutes boil
 
We should clarify that when talking about hops additions, the "minutes" means minutes before the end of the boil.

So 60 minutes is essentially at the beginning of your boil for most beers.
 
A couple of other things that I didn't see mentioned yet...

1. With dry yeast, it's better to rehydrate it before you pitch it into the wort.
2. Monitor the temperature that the wort is fermenting at.
3. Taste the hydrometer samples before you decide it's done (after 2 weeks in primary)...
4. Not sure if you're just going long primary or not, but I would go 2-4 weeks on the yeast before bottling (assuming it's hit the FG and tastes right). You can go longer on the yeast if it doesn't taste right...

Like with doing anything new, there's a learning curve. But having good directions, or reading them properly, is rather important. I've not used B3 kits, having only used a couple from the LHBS before starting to make my own (or using published recipes)...

I will also add that you shouldn't drink home brew out of a frozen glass/mug. It will taste very different when compared with the same brew out of a room temp glass/mug (or one in the 55-75F range)... If you don't believe me, try it yourself... Put one glass in the freezer and leave it there for at least a day. Have another at least close to the 55-75F range (most of the country, that's pretty damned easy this time of year)... Chill down a home brew for 4+ days (makes it cleared in the glass) and pour it into both... Sample both right away...

As another note, there are plenty of recipe's out there that have hops at 60 minutes, 20 minutes (or 15) and then either at 5 or flame-out... It all depends on what you're looking to get from the hops. If you want some for mostly flavor, then 15-20 minutes is a good boil time. If you want mostly aroma, with a little flavor, then 0-5 minutes is good...
 
Golddiggie said:
A couple of other things that I didn't see mentioned yet...

1. With dry yeast, it's better to rehydrate it before you pitch it into the wort.
2. Monitor the temperature that the wort is fermenting at.
3. Taste the hydrometer samples before you decide it's done (after 2 weeks in primary)...
4. Not sure if you're just going long primary or not, but I would go 2-4 weeks on the yeast before bottling (assuming it's hit the FG and tastes right). You can go longer on the yeast if it doesn't taste right...

1. Yes I need to buy extra yeast packs and practice rehydrating ( if it works i'll add it)
2. first coouple batches did n't relaly watch temps now keep with in recommended ranges.
3. Yes of course i sample
4. always leave it in for 4 weeks
Click to expand...
 
artyusmc said:
1. Yes I need to buy extra yeast packs and practice rehydrating ( if it works i'll add it)
2. first coouple batches did n't relaly watch temps now keep with in recommended ranges.
3. Yes of course i sample
4. always leave it in for 4 weeks
Click to expand...

Rehydrating yeast is easy... Before you practice with brewing yeast, do it with bakers yeast... A much cheaper practice medium. :D

Temperatures are important for many yeasts and brews. A good many yeasts will give you different characteristics depending on what temperature they fermented at.

Good to leave it for that long... Of course, depending on what happens, you could need longer than a month on the yeast...

You'll get it all nailed eventually... I would recommend taking decent notes of what you do for each batch. That way, you can always refer back to the notes when things either don't go as planned (in a bad way) or are much better than you expected. I don't trust my own memory for those details, far better to have the notes to reference (can you say "Brew Log"?? I know you can :D)...
 
Another thought...this time on bottling...just to clarify...when you are running your bottles through the dishwasher..make sure you arent adding any soap at...just hot water and heat...thats what you want....the soap will leave a film/residue in the bottle that will kill the flavor of the beer.
 
Wait I thought the problem was too much bitterness? Oh never mind, it wasn't "so SO bitter" it was more like "so-so bitter"... punctuation FTW!(?) You gotta boil them hops unless your extract is hopped.

A few more notes not yet addressed:
  • Just sanitize on brew day, not a day ahead. Use StarSan or Iodophor for this.
  • I don't know what "Oxidize brew pot, empty" means, but it makes me uncomfortable. Once you've used your kettle, only clean it with a sponge or rag and water, and you'll never have to do anything fancy or weird to it again.
  • Ensure your post-boil into-the-fermenter straining bag is sanitized. Soak it in previously mentioned sanitizers for best results.
  • I haven't used a dishwasher for sanitation, but I've read recently that it could be suspect. Once again, just use StarSan/Iodophor.

For the most part you've got it down. Just a little bit of tweaking and you'll be there!
 
I agree with the others - It sounds like your hop additions are at the wrong times. The right hop additions at the "correct" times are going to GREATLY improve your results. That said, different recipes add hops at different times... so bear that in mind with your future brews.

This is over-simplifying, but it breaks down this way (based on a 60 minute boil):
- To get used to the lingo, When your boil starts, you start a count-down timer... in your case, 60 minutes (start) to 0 minutes (end).
- Hops added towards the start of the 60 minutes (say, 60-30 minutes remaining in the boil) add primarily bitterness, but without much in the way of actual hop "flavor". That's why they're called "bittering hops". In some beers, you can substitute one type of hop for another for the bittering hop and not notice much if any change in flavor (assuming they contribute a similar amount of alpha acids).
- Hops added towards the end of the 60 minutes (say, 30-0 minutes remaining in the boil) add more hop "flavor" than actual bitterness. Now, big hop flavor can be perceived as bitterness, but you generally have to stack up a bunch of hops at the end of your boil to get this character.

In terms of fermentation temperature, don't get too complicated. If the directions or yeast packet have a guideline, use it... but err on the low side. For instance, if they say "ferment at 64-69ºF..." go closer to 64 if you can. Make sure your Wort is at, or slightly below this temp before adding your yeast.

Hope that helps ya...
 
ksbrain, sounds like he's using an aluminum brew pot...

I would suggest leaving the oxide coating ON the pot when you brew. I have an aluminum brew kettle, that has a nice dark aluminum oxide coating building up on it. You simply boil water in it for 30 minutes (longer won't hurt, but probably won't do much either) and then dump the water out... Nice protective coating/barrier between the pot and what is going into it... You simply make sure the coating is higher than the maximum you'll be putting into the pot...

As for not worrying about rehydrating yeast (weirdboy), or not needing to know how to do it, that's just wrong... As I mentioned, practice (if you must) with bakers yeast. But, if you can follow simple directions (oh, wait... :eek:) you can rehydrate yeast pretty easily...

Dry yeast will do better if you rehydrate it before pitching... Less stress on the yeast is a good thing (for when you pitch it in)...
 
As for not worrying about rehydrating yeast (weirdboy), or not needing to know how to do it, that's just wrong... As I mentioned, practice (if you must) with bakers yeast. But, if you can follow simple directions (oh, wait... ) you can rehydrate yeast pretty easily...

Dry yeast will do better if you rehydrate it before pitching... Less stress on the yeast is a good thing (for when you pitch it in)...
Click to expand...
Well I have done it both ways and haven't really noticed a huge difference in lag times or in the end product. I went through a phase where I rehydrated my yeast religiously. However, after doing some tests on my own beers I have found that I cannot tell the difference between the two, and pitching straight from the packet is both easier and less prone to error. IMO it is more important to practice proper pitching rates, which for most beers like ESBs is going to be fine with 1 packet.

If you really want more information on it you should check Bobby_M's video where he does side-by-side comparisons of various dry yeast preparations, although I believe his experiment is fundamentally flawed in that he overpitched all the test batches.
 
i think often times, you're your own worst critic. if i were you, i'd try different recipes until u make something u think is good. maybe try an imperial; lots of flavor there.....
 
What others have said about the hops.

Also - skip the chlorine vinegar step the day before. Probably does not hurt anything but does not help anything. If you are using starsan that will more then do the job as long as things are visibly clean.

I never sanitize until cooldwon. Boiling sterizes everything. Then while the wort is cooling I spray the fermented and other things with a spraybottle of starsan.
 
Thanks for everyones help

It is an alu pot, I brew once every three months so after cleaning in oxyclean rinse and boil

Learning to brew means I need to learn pitching rates and good idea to pratice with bakers yeast.

just water and heat for dishwasher, thouht bottles were to warm to bottle but i guess thtas not an issue.

clean does not mean santized so asa newbie i over did it I guess.
 

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