Developing new House Pale Ale - Advice Wanted

So, I'd like to develop a new house pale ale recipe on my own. I'd like it to be a pretty easy drinking, low to medium bitterness with a good floral hop aroma. I want to make something that I can enjoy on a regular basis but one that house guests will also enjoy. I prefer a stronger hoppy brew myself, but I want to dial that back a bit to a more neutral and smooth pale ale. Rather than pushing the hops, I'd like to highlight the malt profile and sweet character. Also important is price, which for this 5.5 gallon batch is just $10.18!!!

Your input is greatly appreciated; recipe below:

Ingredients ($6.43)
9.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 83.72 % ($4.50)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 9.30 % ($0.50)
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.65 % ($0.93)
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 2.33 % ($0.50)

Hops ($2.00)
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.7 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (15 min) Hops 8.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (5 min) Hops 6.4 IBU

Yeast ($1.75)
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale
Ferment at 64F for 7 days, 68F for 14 days
Crash cool @ 37F for 3 days, then keg.

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.20 %
Bitterness: 32.1 IBU
Est Color: 13.0 SRM

Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Batch Sparge 10.75 lb
Mash Notes: Mash for 60 minutes @ 152F
Sparge Water: 5.28 gal
Sparge Temperature: 180.0 F

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.52 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (15 Gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (10 Gal)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75%

Where are you buying your ingredients? Those prices are mighty fine.

I agree with the hops. Centennials provide a very pleasant bitterness and floral quality. Also it's more economical due to the higher AA than say cascade.

jmo88 said:

Where are you buying your ingredients? Those prices are mighty fine.

I agree with the hops. Centennials provide a very pleasant bitterness and floral quality. Also it's more economical due to the higher AA than say cascade.

Click to expand...

I was able to get in on a group grain buy for $.50/lb. for 2-row & Crystal 60L so I picked up a couple 50# sacks. The hop prices are outrageously low at $1/oz. for whole hops from my LHBS. I don't see how they are so low, but then again I'm not going to call attention to it !

Gratuitous grain pr0n:

your recipe looks solid to me, give it a whirl I bet it turns out mighty tasty. I've just recently decided to fall in love with Centennials so I just may have to try out that recipe myself.

I like the addition of Special B. I use it often in IPAs. Just a little, like your recipe. In fact I have an IPA on tap w/ Centennial hops. I think you will get a strong hop flavor with 1oz. at 5 min. It might be a little stronger than the malt. I believe(don't have my recipe right now) that I went w/ 1 oz at similar times as yours. I have a bigger malt profile as well. Mine is very hoppy with a noticeable malt background. I'll check my recipe tonight and get back to you.

I would drink that beer. The only change I might suggest is to dial back on the Crystal 60 some, maybe cut back to 1/2 pound. Not that there is particularly anything wrong with a pound, just to my personal tastes that much is a lot - and since you're making it for house guests, I'm guessing they will like it better if its more "familiar". But then again if you're going for the sweetness, maybe 1 # is what you want. It just seems to me that 1# crystal and 1/2# of special B is kind of pushing the envelope with the caramel/sweetness.

For example if you look at two of the most popular House Pale Ale recipes on this site, Biermuncher's Centennial Blonde and EdWort's Haus Pale Ale - neither one uses that much Crystal type Malts, well Biermuncher's uses a pound, but its Crystal 10 or something - much lighter.

Again, if you want sweet though - thats probably what you're going to get - that recipe might be just what you want. My personal opinion and tastes tell me thats going to be a lot sweeter than most people really like to drink, and I don't think that sweet kind of taste goes all that well with Centennial hops, but don't let me stop you - thats just entirely my own opinion.

Congrats on the huge grain score by the way.

Thanks for the input, I think I may indeed dial that Crystal 60L back down to 1/2# for the first run at this. I'll up the 2-row to 9.5# as well to keep the same gravity and ABV. It will also have the added benefit of lightening up the color of the brew which I suppose is great for "normal" beer drinkers. I know many people have been surprised after tasting my brown ale, thinking that since it was dark it would also be bitter. Making this a bit lighter may be more appetizing to a larger crowd.

I was thinking the same thing about the crystal however some people like that added sweetness also 1 oz hops at 5 will give you a great deal of hop flavor but it might mask the maltyness something to keep in mind if your trying to appeal to the lighter crowd.

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

Thanks for the input, I think I may indeed dial that Crystal 60L back down to 1/2# for the first run at this. I'll up the 2-row to 9.5# as well to keep the same gravity and ABV. It will also have the added benefit of lightening up the color of the brew which I suppose is great for "normal" beer drinkers. I know many people have been surprised after tasting my brown ale, thinking that since it was dark it would also be bitter. Making this a bit lighter may be more appetizing to a larger crowd.

Click to expand...

This is why my Haus Ale uses only 1/2# of Crystal 10L in order to keep it lighter in color to appeal to a broad base of beer drinkers. You might want to swap out the cara pils with wheat malt. It will give you great head retention without adding sweetness or color.

As has been mentioned, the Crystal malt is probably a little much for your average house guest. If it was me, I would replace it with some biscuit, but that is me.

Question: I have both Great Western 2-row and Pale Ale malt in bulk. I know they are very similar, with 2-row being 1.8L and Pale Ale being 3L. The Pale Ale malt is said to be a bit more like Marris Otter, and generally more malty than normal US 2-row. I was thinking about splitting the base malt in half with 2-row and pale ale, to get a more complex flavor. What do you all think about it?

I was thinking about splitting the base malt in half with 2-row and pale ale, to get a more complex flavor. What do you all think about it?

Click to expand...

I've tried that before, but I really haven't made up my mind about how the results turned out yet. I would really need to brew 2 batches side by side to make up my mind and I haven't had a chance to do that yet.

Thats an idea for you - why not go ahead and make 2 batches ? Split the base malt on 1 50/50 and make the other just 2row base. That way you know for sure what your tasting, and the added benefit is you've also got an extra 5 gallons of beer. After all you appear to have plenty of grain

That's a good idea...but there's just no way I'm brewing only 5 gallons now that I have my keggles ! I suppose that means I'll have 20 gallons of some kind of house pale ale !

EdWort said:

This is why my Haus Ale uses only 1/2# of Crystal 10L in order to keep it lighter in color to appeal to a broad base of beer drinkers. You might want to swap out the cara pils with wheat malt. It will give you great head retention without adding sweetness or color.

Click to expand...

Carapils shouldn't add much color, should it? I thought one of the benefits was that it adds head-retention/body without adding the color or sweetness?

Why a fwh addition and no 60 min addition? I was under the impression that fwh's don't take the place of your bittering addition.

wildwest450 said:

Why a fwh addition and no 60 min addition? I was under the impression that fwh's don't take the place of your bittering addition.

Click to expand...

They don't take the place of it, but they still contribute to the bittering. And in BeerSmith, using the same amount in the boil yields just 16.2 IBUs, which the FWH yields 17.8 IBUs. But I'm a FWH noob, so maybe the more experienced guys on here can add something.

I do a brew that is pretty similar to that, but I use Yakima Goldings for Flavor and Aroma Hop additions. I found that Special B is a very strong grain, it will add a ton of color and flavor. I scaled mine back to 2 oz(from 4)and it still comes out pretty dark. I have since decided to cut my hop additions in half and call it a mild.

I too get my ingredients from the Chico Home Brew Shop, and am always surpised at how cheap the hops are.

FWH adds more IBU's,,,,but the perceived taste is more like a 20min addition

Yankeehillbrewer said:

I do a brew that is pretty similar to that, but I use Yakima Goldings for Flavor and Aroma Hop additions. I found that Special B is a very strong grain, it will add a ton of color and flavor. I scaled mine back to 2 oz(from 4)and it still comes out pretty dark. I have since decided to cut my hop additions in half and call it a mild.

I too get my ingredients from the Chico Home Brew Shop, and am always surpised at how cheap the hops are.

Click to expand...

I've been past Yankee Hill many times, mostly on motorcycle. Great riding up there, all the way to Bucks Lake...one of my favorite local rides. I know what you're saying about the Special B, but I may just leave 4oz. for now and see how it turns out this time.

Have you considered changing out the crystal 60? I would go with crystal 40, and change the carapils out for wheat, that way you still get good head retention, some malty taste, and it doesnt end up being as dark like Ed said to appeal to a broader band of people.

Mirilis said:

Have you considered changing out the crystal 60? I would go with crystal 40, and change the carapils out for wheat, that way you still get good head retention, some malty taste, and it doesnt end up being as dark like Ed said to appeal to a broader band of people.

Click to expand...

Well, I bought a bunch of crystal 60L in bulk since I use it in a bunch of other recipes. For a lighter color, I could just use less of it I suppose...but I think most people will appreciate it even with a light copper color. After all, most people around here are used to Sierra Nevada Pale Ale being a staple at parties. My goal is to develop something that is much less bitter than that, with enough taste and hop nose for me and other IPA loving types.

From what I'm hearing, how about something like this:

9.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 91.52 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.82 %
4.00 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2.41 %
2.00 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.25 %

OG: 1.051 FG: 1.012
Color: 7.5 SRM (between deep gold and light amber)
Bitterness: 32.8 IBU

Looks like you got something to brew now!

Let's swap Haus Ales when you get it done!

EdWort said:

Looks like you got something to brew now!

Let's swap Haus Ales when you get it done!

Click to expand...

Hell yes...besides, I still need to send you that 1999 Bigfoot Barleywine bottle!

Looks good.

Not to throw a wrench in your plans, but my House Ale has a lot of flaked maize in it to give some sweetness. Mine is:

4# Pale 2-Row
3# Flaked Maize
3# Vienna
.5# Carapils
.5# Rice Hulls

It's real light and the Vienna adds just enough maltiness for the average BMC Drinker to not be afraid. Actually, the next round is going to be made with Golden Promise or Maris Otter in place of the Pale Malt (cuz they're yummy.)

If you want to use a lighter Crystal Malt, make some Toasted Malt by putting Pale Malt in the oven at 350 for 10-15 minutes. Don't go by the color of the hull, go by the color of the kernel.

does flaked maize really add sweetness? i'd think it would simply lighten the body and add a slight corn flavor.

niquejim said:

FWH adds more IBU's,,,,but the perceived taste is more like a 20min addition

Click to expand...

I agree, I did it once without the 60 min addition and no good. I would chuck that idea or at least do a small 60 min addition.

DeathBrewer said:

does flaked maize really add sweetness? i'd think it would simply lighten the body and add a slight corn flavor.

Click to expand...

A lot of people consider a corn flavor sweet.

well, i'm from iowa so i have had more than my fair share of sweet corn. i was just under the assumption that flaked corn is highly fermentable and the corn is actually to LIGHTEN the body, not add sweetness.

i don't attribute any sweetness in my cream ale to the maize. i've used up to three pounds and it always comes out as a nice crisp, dry, clean, lager-like ale.

balto charlie said:

I like the addition of Special B. I use it often in IPAs. Just a little, like your recipe. In fact I have an IPA on tap w/ Centennial hops. I think you will get a strong hop flavor with 1oz. at 5 min. It might be a little stronger than the malt. I believe(don't have my recipe right now) that I went w/ 1 oz at similar times as yours. I have a bigger malt profile as well. Mine is very hoppy with a noticeable malt background. I'll check my recipe tonight and get back to you.

Click to expand...

I used 2 ozs of Centennial(9.1AA) @ .05 oz @ 20, 15, 10 and 5 minutes. This is only .5 oz more hops than you. I also used Nugget for bittering. This produced a nicely hopped IPA. I don't know if you want this hoppy of a house brew. If you are serving a BMC group it might be a bit too much for their taste buds. The malt background is 1.073/1.019.

DeathBrewer said:

well, i'm from iowa so i have had more than my fair share of sweet corn. i was just under the assumption that flaked corn is highly fermentable and the corn is actually to LIGHTEN the body, not add sweetness.

i don't attribute any sweetness in my cream ale to the maize. i've used up to three pounds and it always comes out as a nice crisp, dry, clean, lager-like ale.

Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing, but my taste buds tell me that it's a nice, light residual sweetness. Not like a Crystal Malt sweet.

Agreed with the crisp, lager-like flavor. I use Sterling hops on my house ale and they impart Saaz-like attributes.

balto charlie said:

I used 2 ozs of Centennial(9.1AA) @ .05 oz @ 20, 15, 10 and 5 minutes. This is only .5 oz more hops than you. I also used Nugget for bittering. This produced a nicely hopped IPA. I don't know if you want this hoppy of a house brew. If you are serving a BMC group it might be a bit too much for their taste buds. The malt background is 1.073/1.019.

Click to expand...

Remember, he's from Chico (Sierra Nevada territory). He also mentioned a lot of people drink Sierra Nevada Pale Ale at parties.

slimer said:

I'm not disagreeing, but my taste buds tell me that it's a nice, light residual sweetness. Not like a Crystal Malt sweet.

Agreed with the crisp, lager-like flavor. I use Sterling hops on my house ale and they impart Saaz-like attributes.

Click to expand...

just curious myself...i'll have to give it another taste with a fresh outlook on my next batch.

i generally use saaz and fuggle in my cream. i just used sterling in a wheat beer for the first time. sounds good...can't wait to see how that turned out!

EdWort said:

This is why my Haus Ale uses only 1/2# of Crystal 10L in order to keep it lighter in color to appeal to a broad base of beer drinkers. You might want to swap out the cara pils with wheat malt. It will give you great head retention without adding sweetness or color.

Click to expand...

White wheat malt or flaked wheat, and would there be any difference?

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

White wheat malt or flaked wheat, and would there be any difference?

Click to expand...

Not really, not in the amounts you're looking at using. I'd go with the flaked; some brewers have to reset their mills to get a good grind on wheat, and why bother if you don't have to?

Happy New Year!

Bob

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

I've been past Yankee Hill many times, mostly on motorcycle. Great riding up there, all the way to Bucks Lake...one of my favorite local rides. I know what you're saying about the Special B, but I may just leave 4oz. for now and see how it turns out this time.

Click to expand...

Yep I love it up here

All right then, I'm brewing this today. Just mashed in about 15 minutes ago..can't wait to see how it turns out. Thanks all for the advice, here's the recipe I came up with:

4.25# Pale 2-row (1.8L)
4.25# Pale Ale Malt (3L)
0.5# Flaked Wheat
4oz. Crystal 60L
2oz. Special B

0.5oz. Centennial - 60m (FWH)
0.5oz. Centennial - 15m
1.0oz. Centennial - 5 min

Irish Moss - 10m

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

All right then, I'm brewing this today. Just mashed in about 15 minutes ago..can't wait to see how it turns out. Thanks all for the advice, here's the recipe I came up with:

4.25# Pale 2-row (1.8L)
4.25# Pale Ale Malt (3L)
0.5# Flaked Wheat
4oz. Crystal 60L
2oz. Special B

0.5oz. Centennial - 60m (FWH)
0.5oz. Centennial - 15m
1.0oz. Centennial - 5 min

Irish Moss - 10m

Click to expand...

That's gonna be quite tasty

WOW! This is a fantastic beverage...and even though I missed my mash temp due to a faulty thermometer it is a very smooth and tasty house ale. SWMBO gives it a thumbs up, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it too.

Brew day was interesting: missed mash temp. Ended up mashing at 144F for 75 minutes. I found out my HTL thermo was reading low as a result of this brew day . However, it resulted in a smooth dry finishing ale so I can't complain too much. Next time I'll mash at 146 for 75 mins for just a little more body. Also, probably due to the low mash temp my OG came in at 1.045. My ending gravity came in at 1.009 for this batch...so very fermentable and resulted in a 5.1% ABV.

Tasting Notes:
Very smooth going down, almost creamy with a voluminous pillowy head. Great hop nose, but not overpowering...clearly a centennial aroma. Initial taste is very malty, but also very light. Disappears of the tongue quickly but with a slight hop bitterness that refreshes that palette and encourages another drink. Very quaffable session ale, I've had a few tonight but could have several more without being too tanked. Overall I'd give this brew a 42/50...but I'll wait for another 4 weeks in the keg to really see how it matures.

ya like its gonna last 4 weeks in a keg at your house LOL....