pH and lactic acid sparge treatment

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hammacks

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Hey guys,

1) I'm trying to see if there is a good way to determine how much lactic acid to add to my tap water to bring my sparge water to around 6 (it will be volume dependent I know) My tap water is at a pH of 9.4. Below is the output from -TH-'s sheet so you can see what I'm working with. I know the best way would be to add a bit and test, and repeat. Problem is, my pH meter is a Ebay POS that I have not treated right and don't have much faith in. I have pool titration type kite (range 7-8) which at least verified to me that my tap pH is way high. I have crappy litmus paper and some brewing pH pad-type strips that seem to do nothing no matter what I put it in. I am hoping I can just get an idea of xx mg of 88% Lactic acid/gal sparge water to get down to around 6.

2) Also, is does the mineral profile in the spreadsheet provide enough info to treat the mash water correctly without taking pH into account?

Here is my profile for an ESB. Feel free to critique, but it's already brewed and I'm more interested in the above questions.

Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 19.2
Mg: 9.2
Na: 48
Cl: 44
SO4: 90
CaCO3: 35

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 2.75 / 4.89
Dilution Rate: 0%

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaCO3: 0.59 / 2.37
CaSO4: 0 / 0
CaCl2: 2.38 / 0
MgSO4: 0.59 / 0
NaHCO3: 0.59 / 0
NaCl: 0 / 0
HCL Acid: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid: 0 / 0

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 104 / 83
Mg: 15 / 11
Na: 64 / 54
Cl: 154 / 84
SO4: 112 / 98
CaCO3: 110 / 111

RA (mash only): 27 (7 to 12 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 0.85 (Balanced)
 
In my opinion, your SO4 is very low, and your Cl is very high.
According to Terry Foster (Pale Ale), for a special bitter, you need Ca 50 - 100 ppm, SO4 100 - 200 ppm, and Cl 30 ppm. For an ESB, I think you could increase the Ca and SO4 by up to 50%, while keeping the Cl as low as possible. The Cl to SO4 ratio (as defined in the spread sheet should be "Very Bitter" (which, for an ESB is balanced))
You don't want chalk or baking soda with your high pH water, but you do want some gypsum.

-a.
 
In my opinion, your SO4 is very low, and your Cl is very high.
According to Terry Foster (Pale Ale), for a special bitter, you need Ca 50 - 100 ppm, SO4 100 - 200 ppm, and Cl 30 ppm. For an ESB, I think you could increase the Ca and SO4 by up to 50%, while keeping the Cl as low as possible. The Cl to SO4 ratio (as defined in the spread sheet should be "Very Bitter" (which, for an ESB is balanced))
You don't want chalk or baking soda with your high pH water, but you do want some gypsum.

-a.

I hear yah on the Cl:SO4.

The chalk and baking soda are to get my RA up to match the SRM of the beer. My pH may be high, but my RA is veeery low.
 
Sorry, I didn't notice your RA. My water has a lower pH, but a higher RA.
OK with a small amount of chalk and baking soda, but why use a relatively large amount of CaCl2? I'd use gypsum instead, which in turn will require a little more chalk or baking soda, but you should end up with acceptable SO4 levels, and a much reduced Cl level giving a better Cl to SO4 ratio.

-a.
 
Sorry, I didn't notice your RA. My water has a lower pH, but a higher RA.
OK with a small amount of chalk and baking soda, but why use a relatively large amount of CaCl2? I'd use gypsum instead, which in turn will require a little more chalk or baking soda, but you should end up with acceptable SO4 levels, and a much reduced Cl level giving a better Cl to SO4 ratio.

-a.

1) I didn't have gypsum :cross:
2) With the astringency problems I've been having, I've been trying to cut down on bitterness across the board. Hop bitterness does not equal astringency, I know, I'm was just trying to make something on the low hop percieved bitterness side so I can identify any astringency better. Make sense? As far as creating the correct profile, you are absolutely right.
 
Bump to help anyone who is searching in the future:

John Palmer's sheet will calculate needed acid addition to get sparge water down to your desired pH, taking into account sparge volume and water profile (Awesome!)

Palmer's Mash RA Worksheet v2.5 US Units

Palmer's Mash RA Worksheet v2.5 Metric Units

And in case anyone's looking, Palmer's sheet gives a final Cl:SO4 ratio based on mash chemistry, while TH's bases it on total boil volume chemistry. I didn't think the Cl:SO4 effect had anything to do with the mash. Does Palmer got it wrong?
 
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