Whirlpooling Questions

Yakima 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
nealperkins

nealperkins

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
312
Reaction score
13
Location
Boone, NC
I've been using an immersion chiller for awhile. I'm thinking I want to (again) try whirlpooling and my couterflow.

I have a 28 gallon kettle (with a divertor plate) and will be making 12 gallons of wort.

Questions:

After giving the wort a real good 'whirl', how long to you wait to get the cone formed? (Or at least enough of a pull back from the kettle edge to yield clean(er) wort.)

Or, what's the shortest time I could wait to get the benefit of cleaner wort?
 
I usually whirlpool, then let it go for about 20 minutes. Gives me time to get my CFC set, and my fermentors ready to accept the wort.
 
The pros that I know do 40+ min. 20 through the pump and 20 to settle. But there whirlpools are a separate vessel and it takes about 20 min to do the transfer.
 
OP, good question, I'd like to add:

If whirlpooling w/o a pump what would be the best method?

I know stir, stir , stir, but for how long, and what about settling time?
 
Schnitzengiggle said:
OP, good question, I'd like to add:

If whirlpooling w/o a pump what would be the best method?

I know stir, stir , stir, but for how long, and what about settling time?
Click to expand...

Yes stir like a mad man for a lot longer than you think you need too. I am thinking like 1-2 min or better. Then settle for 20+ min. I understand a bunch of people say they whirlpool w/ a March 809. 5 gallon batches maybe, but I doubt it would ever work for a 10-12 gallon batch. I mean don't get me wrong, it will stir it and maybe, just maybe get it to go in a small whirlpool or at least in the direction. But to do the job of separating all the trub and getting it to form a cone. I would question its effectiveness. Anyone want to comment on using an 809 for 10+ gallon batches for a whirlpool.
 
Somewhere...I read the technical reason that the cone actually forms and it had to do with the slowing down of the liquid, not the actual slowing. Somehow the friction of the sidewalls set up a pressure differential from the sides to the center of the of the liquid.

My concern over the time is not the time itself. Rather, any very late hop additions will lose too much of the aroma contribution and I'd rather not add a grant.

The couple times I did do this, I did indeed get a nice cone. But, too much hop/trub material which collapsed as I tried to extract the last of the wort. Now I'll be using hop bags so that hopefully the cone itself will be smaller, allowing me to extract more of the wort.
 
nealperkins said:
Somewhere...I read the technical reason that the cone actually forms and it had to do with the slowing down of the liquid, not the actual slowing. Somehow the friction of the sidewalls set up a pressure differential from the sides to the center of the of the liquid.
Click to expand...

For some AWESOME visualizations of whirlpool flow, (and everything fluid dynamics), check out this page:
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html

The one you want is "rotating flow"....I can't access it right now, as work seems to be blocking it....and you need RealPlayer to watch it....

But it's great.
 
nealperkins said:
Somewhere...I read the technical reason that the cone actually forms and it had to do with the slowing down of the liquid, not the actual slowing. Somehow the friction of the sidewalls set up a pressure differential from the sides to the center of the of the liquid.

My concern over the time is not the time itself. Rather, any very late hop additions will lose too much of the aroma contribution and I'd rather not add a grant.

The couple times I did do this, I did indeed get a nice cone. But, too much hop/trub material which collapsed as I tried to extract the last of the wort. Now I'll be using hop bags so that hopefully the cone itself will be smaller, allowing me to extract more of the wort.
Click to expand...

In heavily hopped beers, try bittering hops in a nylon bag and flavoring, aroma hops direct to wort, I do this for my 60 min ipa with 60,50,40,30 in a bag.....the rest dumped into wort directly.....cuts the trub in half:mug:
 
I can't tell you what kind of pumps work the best because I have yet to do this. But, a friend of mine is a brewer at a local brewery. He told me that the slower the whirlpool the better. Claims that when the velocity is too high, particles tend to be resuspended back in to solution. Therefore a very slow whirl is best.
 
nealperkins said:
My concern over the time is not the time itself. Rather, any very late hop additions will lose too much of the aroma contribution and I'd rather not add a grant.
Click to expand...

I don't think the time waiting for the cone to form is going to hurt you here....whether the wort is spending time in the kettle or the fermenter shouldn't be any different in regard to aroma hops, imo. The amount of time it takes to get the wort cooled is a different story.
 
Buzzcraft, I don't understand your point.

If the hops are added at flameout, and you spend 20 setting up the cone in nearly boiling wort, the aroma will be reduced. Or, do you mean something else?

Thanks
 
shortyjacobs said:
Chill first, THEN whirlpool. (Or chill while whirlpooling)
Click to expand...

This is what I have been doing for the past few 12 gallon batches, I have a 25' IC that I run tap water through and collect in the carboy and whatever else needs to be washed. While the IC is in the wort I run a small march radiator pump to get a whirlpool going. I run the pump till i get the wort down to about 130(20-30min), then I stop the pump and start recirculating Ice water through the IC until I get down to 80-70ºF (20-30min).

I think I preserves the late hop aromas to get the temp down below 170 ASAP after flame out. Next though I want to build a hop back and put it in line with the whirlpool pump.
 
I have been using Jamil Z's IC with J tube. However, because of the IC's presence, I cannot get circulation sufficient to whirlpool. Actually, because of the relative sizes of the IC and boil kettle, it would never work. Perhaps if I had a smaller boil kettle it would.

I don't mind stirring nearly boiling wort and placing the lid back on the kettle. However, after I chill the wort, I do not want to lift the lid and risk infection. After the wort is cooled, it is pumped directly to the conical.

I guess it's all about trade offs.
 

Similar threads

V
Whirlpooling and chilling
Replies
15
Views
1K
JohnDBrewer
J
olie
How to help hop-cake not "melt" after whirlpool (during knockout)?
Replies
5
Views
698
Broken Crow
Broken Crow
B
Cool whirlpool with hop stopper
Replies
14
Views
1K
JAReeves
JAReeves
J
Whirlpool questions
Replies
19
Views
2K
Group W
Group W
G
Whirlpool while chilling?
Replies
3
Views
2K
oakbarn
oakbarn
Brewer's Friend 300

Latest posts

Back
Top