HELP! Problem with underpitching yeast for big brew

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bossbrews

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Hi there,

I'm a newbie on here. I just recently started brewing a few months ago and finally took a bold step and attempted the following all grain recipe for Bell's Hop Slam. The top recipe that is.

Link here: http://www.brew365.com/beer_bells_hopslam.php

All Grain Recipe - Bells Hopslam ::: 1.089/1.020 (6.5 Gal)
Grain Bill (75% Efficiency assumed)

13 lbs. - Maris Otter Malt
2 lb. - Munich Malt
1 lb. - Aromatic Malt
1/2 lb. - CaraPils
3 lbs. - Table Sugar *OR* 4 lbs. - Honey (end of boil)

Hop Schedule (93 IBU)

2 oz. - Simcoe [13%] (75 min.)
1 oz. - Glacier [5.6%] (60 min.)
1.5 oz. - Centennial [10%] (20 min.)
1 oz. - Glacier [5.6%] (15 min.)
1 oz. - Vanguard [5.5%](10 min.)
1 oz. - Crystal [3.5%] (1 min.)
1 oz. - Hallertau [4%] (1 min.)
2 oz. - Simcoe (Dry Hop in Secondary 1 week)
Yeast

1.3L starter of WLP001 or WY1056 IF you have a stirplate.
If you do not have a striplate, make a pale ale or something below 1.050
with WLP001 or 1056 and use 200 ml of that yeast for this beer.
If you choose Safale S-05 use 2 properly hydrated packs.

Mash/Sparge/Boil

Mash at 150° to 152° for 75 min.
Sparge as usual
Cool and ferment at 68° (make sure you control your temp!)

Everything seemed to go decently well, minus an additional hour or so since the iodine test I tried with the mash kept failing, but I tasted a sample and it was sweet, so I just went along with the recipe.

Perhaps a red flag should've been raised when I was siphoning the beer and it came out in a green sludge, but there were a lot of hops added and I tend to just drop them in the pot naked and just worry about clearing things out when siphoning to the second fermenter.

Anyways, so it's been about two days now and the beer still looks like a green sludgy pea soup concoction in the fermenter. There is activity visible through the airlock and all that, but I failed to realize what a yeast starter was and only pitched one liquid sack of WY1056 sans stirplate action (since I don't have one). I did stir the hell out of the wort with the paddle that came with my brewing kit once I pitched the yeast though, if that makes any difference.

I looked the FAQ on Wyeast's website and they said that for a beer that has a gravity over 1.080 you are looking at about 3 packages of their liquid yeast. I am pretty sure I underpitched, and that is probably why my beer is not exactly clearing out that well in the fermenter. What should I do next?

I was considering waiting 7-10 days, then moving what is there into a secondary fermenter to clear it up some. I have read on several forums about re-pitching yeast or creating a starter and trying to get things going again in the secondary, but more than often these threads related to stagnant fermentation.

Would two more packets of WY1056 made into a starter theoretically work here? Like I said, I still have activity currently going with mine, so maybe it's too early to know. Since I've only made relatively smaller/lower alcohol brews in the past, I'm not sure if it just takes longer for bigger brews to clear up.

What is the worst that could happen if I don't take any other action? Will it just take 3 times as long for my beer to clear up and ferment or will bacteria and off-flavors destroy what I have there before then?

Please help me with any info you can. Again, I'm pretty new to brewing, but I have read Papazian's 'Joy of Home Brewing' and done a decent amount of research on forums. I don't know how I missed the starter thing. I just hope my batch isn't ruined because it was a pricey one to put together.

Thanks!
 
first off, don't move it to a secondary fermenter. sorry if i missed it, but how long has it been in the fermenter for? if you want, you could probably toss in another packet of yeast. if you have action going, it's probably fine, it might end up with some fusel alcohols and more esters that you may have planned on for this beer, but it should have a ton of hop flavor, so it should cover the esters fairly well. if you get fusels from underpitching, they will eventually mellow some. don't worry about the clearing, it will happen with time.
 
Don't worry about your beer clearing right now, the yeast activity is stirring everything up...the trub will clear out when the yeast settle down. However, I would get some more yeast in there ASAP. Under pitching a big beer will result in under attenuation and undesirable flavors...however, the former is the greatest concern. Hopefully it will work out for you b/c to do all the work and expense of a big beer and have it under attenuate sucks. However, it is a motivator to get you to learn about yeast. Good luck.
 
It's been 2-3 days now. In terms of time, how long do you think realistically for clearing up? 2-3 weeks? A month to two? More?

So do you suggest I avoid the dry hopping step? It says to do so for a week with 2 oz. of Simcoe hops in the recipe. Or should I just wait until it clears up a bit before doing so?
 
The negative side effects of underpitching can't really be changed later on by adding more yeast. Most of the problems come from the off-flavors they produce during the lag and growth phases (the time between when you pitch the yeast and when it's at the peak of its activity). You may run into underattenuation issues or diacetyl, but fortunately this is a massively hoppy beer, so many of those issues would have to be very big and obvious to make themselves known at all.

As far as your beer clearing goes, if it's still fermenting, the process of the yeast giving off co2 and that co2 rising to the top of the fermenter is keeping that hop material in suspension. I think your plan of waiting for it to finish and racking to a secondary for dry hopping is a good one, just make sure you wait a couple of days after activity stops. Even when the yeast stop giving off co2, they're still active, eating up diacetyl and acetaldehyde and other off-flavors you'll want to minimize, given your underpitching.
 
^^^ That's good advice there. What's done is done, adding more yeast after fermentation starts won't help any; they've populated and begun the work. Keep an eye on the gravity after things die down for a while. You'll want to make sure you get a reasonable amount of attenuation. You may well do so, but underpitching increases the risk that you won't.
 
Going along with what 0110x10011 binary man said and why I said what I said, you can't fix what has already occured, however, you can fight under attenuation still. What GoldTuborg said about adding more yeast not helping is not true. If your beer was fermented out or stuck it is much less likely adding yeast would help much; however, that is not your situation. At your point your oxygen supply is burnt so any yeast you add you won't get the benefit of significant multiplication so it is an up hill battle to get enough yeast in there by adding more smack packs. However, on the other side, adding a smack pack after it has expanded is adding healthy yeast loaded with nutrients and ready to work. The other benefit of adding more yeast right now is that the increase of off flavors generated due to under pitching will benefit from having more yeast to try and clear those out.

As far as your questions...ipa's are often cloudy due to all the hops, it might be that your beer takes a few months to really clear out; however, the yeast will probably settle out in a few weeks...all depending on how healthy a fermentation you have and you do not sound to have the healthiest one going on. But that doesn't matter as far as your dry hopping is concerned as you general rule many follow is to dry hop at the tail end of fermentation, so let your gravity decide when to dry hop instead of clarity.
 
What GoldTuborg said about adding more yeast not helping is not true.

Did he not aerate any? I must have missed that. Generally, given proper aeration and underpitching, it is unlikely that adding more yeast as fermentation is in full swing will make any difference. If aeration was a problem, as well, I suppose it could help get the cell count up to where it should be. Adding active yeast to a stalled fermentation is another thing, though, altogether.
 
Did he not aerate any? I must have missed that. Generally, given proper aeration and underpitching, it is unlikely that adding more yeast as fermentation is in full swing will make any difference. If aeration was a problem, as well, I suppose it could help get the cell count up to where it should be. Adding active yeast to a stalled fermentation is another thing, though, altogether.

I would say yes and no for the previous reasons I said. What is done is done; however, adding healthy yeast provides more capacity to clear out off flavors resultant of underpitching. The bad thing is that once fermentation is under way you can't add oxygen and more yeast to get another exponential growth phase (I think that is what you are getting at GuldTuborg?) to make up for the lack of yeast which means the amount of yeast you would have to pitch would be massive. This gets into krausening from another beer as a solution which was what I was getting at with using a smack pack at high krausen.
 
I think that a packet of properly rehydrated US-05 might serve the same purpose and be cheaper than adding the liquid version. It will certainly help with attenuation if the yeast are suffering ill effects.
 
Hrm. Beer tasted like rocket fuel while bottling. Otherwise, it seems mighty strong even after a few sips. I hope it conditions well. I did add some rehydrated 05 in there. Thanks for the advice.
 

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