Mad Elf Ale... any thoughts?

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yeoitsmatt

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Hello fellow brewers /brewmeisters.... it's that wonderful time of year again when the leaves turn lovely shades of gold and brown, the morning frost greets you when you go to get the paper, and the cool night air makes you reach for big beers that make you feel all warm inside.... I, my friends, have brewed one of the greats... Troegs Mad Elf Ale.... that's right. it's an ale... and it goes a little something like this:

Briess Golden Light --extract-- (7lbs)
Briess Sparkling Amber --extract-- (3lbs)
Weyerman Caramunich (2lbs)
Muntons Chocolate Malt (1/4 lb)
Crystal 20 (1/4 lb)
3lbs of Honey
5 lbs of Cherries (half sweet, half sour)-- secondary--

1oz. (German) Hallertaur (4.3%)
1oz. Czech Saaz (3%)

WLP 500- Trappist Ale Yeast


--steep grains--
103* @ 30min
152* @ 30 min
sparge

(90 minute boil)
1oz hallertaur - 60 min
0.5oz Saaz - 60 min
1 lb Honey - 0 min (flameout)

-- 2lbs Honey to primary--
--pitch yeast-- (for this i made a few starters to get almost 1 cup of slurry)

Pitched the yeast as the Eagles were losing to the Lions... what a way to lose...... it's been going crazy since then. Huge krausen... the blow off hose has yet to encounter the foam though. I ended with a little more than 5 gals, put into a 6.5 gal glass carboy... it's flirting with the hose but not committing... it's been 48 hours now so i'm not expecting too much more... although i did accidentally leave a window open in the basement and it got down to around 40* last night but it didn't appear to slow it down at all...
Happy fall everyone and thanks!
 
Nice recipe. Since you steep grains for an hour, why not go to all grain? Just a thought.
 
Should be ready to drink by about March/April.
 
it's not a barley wine. it's an ale. 4 months at the most. February at the latest.

Several people have cloned it on here and told me when I was about to brew it that it took 6 months.
 
Nice recipe. Since you steep grains for an hour, why not go to all grain? Just a thought.

All grain, albeit not too different in principle, is a pretty far cry from steeping grains. Say you are a partial boil, extract brewer with a single 4 gallon kettle. You could easily steep grains with no extra knowledge or equipment. You go AG, suddenly you need a mash tun, a bigger kettle - one with a ball valve, etc. You need to move from brewing inside on your stove to a propane burner, and you need to start worrying about water chemistry, mash PH, etc. Pretty big leap.
 
Pretty big leap.

Good thoughts. I went almost directly to AG on my third brew and never looked back. I started with spring water but then decided it had to be city water. I don't think the upgrades have to be a big deal at first. They are more about convenience. I use BIAB in an unconverted 5g cooler; I even fly sparge that bad boy. It cost me peanuts and I'm getting acceptable gravity. I'm sure that if I upgrade/convert, I will be pleasantly surprised at what I've been missing. 5 gallon coolers are awesome. I will miss mine if I ever stop using it. The Home Depot five gallon strainers fit perfectly around the lip and 99% of stainless steel colanders fit perfectly at the top.

This is because I only make 3 gallon batches. Works for me.
 
Sounds like a nice recipe, I agree this will not be at its best for a little while especially with all that honey and cherries. Whats your OG and/or expected ABV?

Also agree that theres not much point to steeping for an hour, waste of time IMHO. 15-25 minutes is good for specialty grains.
 
I made an all grain version of this a few weeks back - I would use extract next time to more easily boost the gravity, but I wanted to try it AG this go 'round. It is still in primary (after 3 weeks). I'll probably transfer onto the cherries next weekend then bottle after another few weeks. I'm gonna crack some open with my brewing buddy, the reason I made this clone attempt, on Christmas eve, but I expect a hot, boozey beer after only 2-3 months. May throw the rest in the back of the closet and pull 'em out for "Christmas in July" or December 2013. I mashed really low and hit 1.098. Hoping to get around 80% attenuation out of the trappist ale and finish a bit above 10% once all said and done.
 
Good thoughts. I went almost directly to AG on my third brew and never looked back. I started with spring water but then decided it had to be city water. I don't think the upgrades have to be a big deal at first. They are more about convenience. I use BIAB in an unconverted 5g cooler; I even fly sparge that bad boy. It cost me peanuts and I'm getting acceptable gravity. I'm sure that if I upgrade/convert, I will be pleasantly surprised at what I've been missing. 5 gallon coolers are awesome. I will miss mine if I ever stop using it. The Home Depot five gallon strainers fit perfectly around the lip and 99% of stainless steel colanders fit perfectly at the top.

This is because I only make 3 gallon batches. Works for me.

See, my guess is most folks would rather stick to extract making outstanding, 40+ point beers, than be relegated to 3 gallon batches. If you want to go AG and make 5 gallon batches, you ARE talking about buying additional equipment, possibly moving outdoors, buying a burner, chiller, etc etc. BTW... I get you'll get better efficiency doing a BIAB if you start dunk sparging! Seriously, try it.


I made an all grain version of this a few weeks back - I would use extract next time to more easily boost the gravity, but I wanted to try it AG this go 'round. It is still in primary (after 3 weeks). I'll probably transfer onto the cherries next weekend then bottle after another few weeks. I'm gonna crack some open with my brewing buddy, the reason I made this clone attempt, on Christmas eve, but I expect a hot, boozey beer after only 2-3 months. May throw the rest in the back of the closet and pull 'em out for "Christmas in July" or December 2013. I mashed really low and hit 1.098. Hoping to get around 80% attenuation out of the trappist ale and finish a bit above 10% once all said and done.

Yea.. something this high gravity definitely seems to be looking for some extract boost to reach gravity.
 
it's not a barley wine. it's an ale. 4 months at the most. February at the latest.

Just for the record (and hopefully without sounding snarky), a barley wine is an ale. I also agree with kpr121, 15-25 minutes is good for specialty grains. The recipe looks good, let us know how it turns out!
 
question on the cherries, i wanted to know if you could substitute marchaino cherries (in the jar) or cherry pie filling (in a can) and if so how much would you use?
 
Just for the record (and hopefully without sounding snarky), a barley wine is an ale. I also agree with kpr121, 15-25 minutes is good for specialty grains. The recipe looks good, let us know how it turns out!

Yes, but not every ale is a barley wine. That's what OP was saying.
 
UPDATE!!! My OG came in at 1.110... and thats not including the 2lbs of honey that went into the fermenter. I pitched almost 1 cup of slurry (trappist WLP) and it chewed through it! Went from 1.110 to 1.040 in about a week. it's been about 3 weeks now and this weekend will be the last week before i secondary it w/ the cherries...

As far as the steeping is concerned i wanted to do a beta rest. hence 103. but you don't have to do it.. i just didnt want my grain getting all stuck together... it's close proximity in a grain bag.
 
UPDATE!!! My OG came in at 1.110... and thats not including the 2lbs of honey that went into the fermenter. I pitched almost 1 cup of slurry (trappist WLP) and it chewed through it! Went from 1.110 to 1.040 in about a week. it's been about 3 weeks now and this weekend will be the last week before i secondary it w/ the cherries...

As far as the steeping is concerned i wanted to do a beta rest. hence 103. but you don't have to do it.. i just didnt want my grain getting all stuck together... it's close proximity in a grain bag.

Beta rest on your steeping grains? That's a mashing procedure for a recipe with a large amount of unmalted or flaked rye, oat, or wheat. The AG brewers are worried about stuck sparging. Steeping specialty grains, which are already converted during the malting process, is merely to extract. This is a very robust process and works perfectly within a range of conditions including temp changes and volume differences.
 
I know its for all grain brewing but it just sounded like something i should do anyway. I mean it didnt hurt anything, although it may not have ADDED anything either...i think i confused it with a three step mash process... i read about it in Palmers "How to Brew" and i get a lot of things mixed up in my head sometimes.... no biggie. so far so good with the brew though...
 
I know its for all grain brewing but it just sounded like something i should do anyway. I mean it didnt hurt anything, although it may not have ADDED anything either...i think i confused it with a three step mash process... i read about it in Palmers "How to Brew" and i get a lot of things mixed up in my head sometimes.... no biggie. so far so good with the brew though...

Keep learning buddy. It's all good. You're thinking all grain so maybe you should make the leap! BIAB is a good way to go that won't cost you an arm and a leg.
 
See, my guess is most folks would rather stick to extract making outstanding, 40+ point beers, than be relegated to 3 gallon batches. If you want to go AG and make 5 gallon batches, you ARE talking about buying additional equipment, possibly moving outdoors, buying a burner, chiller, etc etc. BTW... I get you'll get better efficiency doing a BIAB if you start dunk sparging! Seriously, try it.

I think I make excellent beer with what I have. I truly believe equipment is for making beer more easily, with better guarantees, but not for making it better.

Extract gives a guarantee of gravity, but it lack control and authenticity. I am ignorant about the results of extract, and that is my choice. I'd rather be in control, even if it's with down and dirty equipment. I'm actually not that concerned about alcohol content.
 
****UPDATE*****

I just racked it onto the cherries today and i took a gravity; it's 1.020... roughly 11.5% ABV.... Now the cherries i have are from a jar, 3 lbs sweet/ 2 lbs sour... i strained the juice out because i just wanted the cherries as is; Half sweet/ half sour. You can find anything you need at the Reading Terminal Market, (Phila. PA), it's the shizzz!!!

After tasting it, it already tastes pretty close to a mad elf.... It lacks the cherry flavor for sure but it totally meets it with the malts and honey. Big warm boozey flavor (obviously) but thats what makes mad elf so great... plus it is around 68*F... so far so good...

I think im going to give it a month on the cherries and then bottle... my new concern is i don't have another glass fermenter (carboy)... and it's currently in a plastic bucket.... i know that i could oxidize if left in plastic too long but it's a new bucket and i'm hoping it wont... worst case scenario i have to re reack to the carboy???? Idk if anyone has left a beer in plastic for more than 3 weeks, but i haven't had a bad experience... however the headspace is going to be about 1 gal...

Suggestions?? Thoughts??? Comments??? ADVICE????
 
I think it will be fine. If it were a sour beer and sitting for a year I'd say to buy a carboy but its just a month so let it ride. Glad you posted an update. I love when people follow up. Keep us posted!!
 
My guess would be you're going to get everything that you're going to get out of the cherries in two weeks. Just a guess
 
My guess would be you're going to get everything that you're going to get out of the cherries in two weeks. Just a guess

Really? I mean that makes sense but it won't start producing weird off flavors would it?
 
Really? I mean that makes sense but it won't start producing weird off flavors would it?

Well, I've read in a few places that the fruit extraction happens inside of 7 days - I think 10 days to two weeks is fine if you want to be sure I guess. I plan to leave mine for about 7-10 days and then I'll taste it.
 
Yeoitsmatt: I think 2 weeks on the cherries will be fine. I don't think it'll need longer than that to extract the flavor.

I just checked in on my AG clone tonight. I'm at 1.022 and gonna give it another check this weekend.
 
I just wanted to thank you guys for your posts and giving me your 2 cents (or whatever value you would like to put on them)....

For some reason the cherries i got from the Reading TermMkt smelled really weird when i opened the jars... i didn't even taste them; just tossed them.... I sprang for 3lbs of Dark Sweet Cherries (Frozen) from Pathmark... after thawing they certainly are sweet... i'm afraid that this might be too sweet!!! Not from a malts standpoint but like an "adjunct" sweetness... i've spent close to $120 making this brew so i don't want it to be terrible...

Lastly, I added 2 lbs of honey when i put this beast in the fermenter and wondering if my OG should have been higher than 1.110 (which did not include those 2lbs)... i have a strong feeling that it is... After drinking the tested wort after a (hydro)reading i was feeling it... thoughts?
 
Oh, and i have reconsidered the time on the cherries; i'm thinking i'm going to bottle in about 2 - 3 weeks...
 
Just bottled my mad elf today. Finished low, as I had hoped, at 1.014. Cherries added a nice red color and flavor. Need to let it carb up and I'll have a taste test vs the real thing on christmas eve - Think this one will be very close to the original. Merry Christmas!
 
My only thought is it's too strong. It's very difficult to make strong beer taste really good.

I avoid strong beer. Strong beer is too confusing for me. I like wine and liquor but I want by beers under 9% ABV and preferably under 5%.

I have some bottles of Victory Golden Monkey lying around because they're too strong and the taste, though quite decent, is not worth the ABV.

There are few brews that can do high ABV and taste excellent. Like Chimay. (Sorry, I have good dreams of Chimay red)
 
This is just my opinion but I don't think it's very difficult to make a strong beer that tastes good. From my experience , it's a matter of when you add fully fermentable sugar like honey, dextrose or table sugar.

Many people add these sugars to the boil which I think is a mistake. I've done this a couple times and end up with that hot, burning alcohol taste in anything over 6%.

I've brewed a 9.5% trippel, 10% barleywine and a 10.5% porter and added the fully fermentable sugar 2/3 of the way through fermentation. With these beers, there is virtually no "heat". This is a technique that many breweries such as Chimay use. My buddy called my trippel "the dangerous beer" since it was so easy to drink and he would get drunk too fast.

Give it a try on a future beer and see what you think.
 
In my experience fermentation temp has more to do with hot/fusel alchohol production. Keep the temps on the low end early on and you'll get a better tasting big beer.
 
In my experience fermentation temp has more to do with hot/fusel alchohol production. Keep the temps on the low end early on and you'll get a better tasting big beer.

I totally agree. Temp control is key. I only brought it up since I brew all my ales from 62-64 and every beer that I've added sugar in the boil (mostly beers that call for it in the last 15 minutes) end up with detectable heat.
 
Yeah... big beers taste great if they're done correctly... just like sour beers can be great.... it already tastes amazing and its not carbonated yet; nor will it be ready for another few months. Im going to def open one of xmas eve and let you guys know how it is... i plan on saving a twelve pack of this for next Christmas too...
 
I am very curious to see if your brew has good head retention. This year's Mad Elf has ZERO head retention. At least the 12 or so I have drank...
 
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