Has anyone tried this quick-lagering method?

CornyKegs 728
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An STC 1000+ is probably in my future, I use a standard STC 1000 now and do everything manually. I don't mind too much, I like checking in on everything, but that would be a lot easier and simpler.

I brewed what is now a Helles (was supposed to be a pils, came out a touch sweet) at the same time as the czech pils, I'll have to post a pic of that guy later, it's just as pretty.
 
I am finishing up drinking the last of a second keg... On the same process.. Absolutely awesome time frame for a very tastey Marzen... Although I'll admit it was a triple decoction... And a very long brew day But this last iteration was the best.. Not the clearest due to not using gelatin this time but certainly the tastiest!
 
Brulosopher said:
Hey all, I wanted to let you know I just updated the quick lager method article on my site, some may find it helpful.

http://brulosophy.com/lager-method

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update! I still have this method on my list to try with my next lager. The last lager I made was probably in 2006. I lagered for 11 weeks before bottling.

I will just need to find the time to get this one done. I have lots of ales waiting to be made right now.
 
Here's the German pils I just made, also from 01/26/15. I will say the flavor dramatically improves after aging in the keg for two weeks, but was able to finish fermentation in 11 days, crashed for a couple, and then cold aged. I don't use gelatin so it's not so perfectly clear

image.jpg
 
30 day old Helles..... been drinking it for about a week and a half now. It is as good as (or better than) any helles I have brewed with more traditional schedules. I have a "second runnings" black lager going on the same schedule right now. I am thinking I will try a Dortmunder this weekend.

helles.jpg
 
I find using this method works fine and makes my lagers ready to drink after 2 weeks in the keg but waiting a couple more weeks they are much better. I try and wait 5-6 weeks lagering before tapping if I can.
 
So... I have been planning to use this method for a Marzen I have in the fermentation chamber now.

This was my plan.
1. Ferment for about a week at 55 (should have gone lower I know but too late now)
2. D-rest at 68 for a week or until finished
3. Gradually lower the temps to 32 and hold for a week.
4. Lager in Kegs so I can sample it :)

I am trying to understand the specific difference in this technique versus a traditional method. Many of the articles I have read on lagering also incorporate a D-rest so that that's not really different.

Is the main difference between this and a traditional lager method the just that its suggest cutting out unnecessary time with specific timing of the D-rest when the yeast are mostly done but still very active? While also swapping the order kegging and lagering?

fermenting 2 weeks, d-rest, lagering, kegging?
vs
fermenting 1 week, d-rest, kegging, lagering?

Most people have reported that 2 more weeks in the keg and their beers taste much better but those are likely the two weeks you might have lagered it before kegging. Help my head stop spinning :)

Thanks,

David
 
djonesax said:
So... I have been planning to use this method for a Marzen I have in the fermentation chamber now.

This was my plan.
1. Ferment for about a week at 55 (should have gone lower I know but too late now)
2. D-rest at 68 for a week or until finished
3. Gradually lower the temps to 32 and hold for a week.
4. Lager in Kegs so I can sample it :)

I am trying to understand the specific difference in this technique versus a traditional method. Many of the articles I have read on lagering also incorporate a D-rest so that that's not really different.

Is the main difference between this and a traditional lager method the just that its suggest cutting out unnecessary time with specific timing of the D-rest when the yeast are mostly done but still very active? While also swapping the order kegging and lagering?

fermenting 2 weeks, d-rest, lagering, kegging?
vs
fermenting 1 week, d-rest, kegging, lagering?

Most people have reported that 2 more weeks in the keg and their beers taste much better but those are likely the two weeks you might have lagered it before kegging. Help my head stop spinning :)

Thanks,

David
Click to expand...

If your going to keg it's easier to just lager in the keg. Do your D rest, cold crash to lager temp for a few days then rack to your keg.
 
wobdee said:
If your going to keg it's easier to just lager in the keg. Do your D rest, cold crash to lager temp for a few days then rack to your keg.
Click to expand...

Yeah, thats my plan and is coincidentally the same as what I do for ales but the primary temps are obviously higher.
 
I'd say that this technique is based on the belief that the main reason that lagers are traditionally lagered for so long is to clear them. But clearing the beer on a homebrew scale can much more quickly be achieved by fining with gelatin. Thus rendering lagering for a month or more unnecessary. So, if you follow a strict temp controlled fermentation schedule and fine with gelatin, you can produce a great tasting lager in a fraction of the time that is traditionally recommended.
 
jmadway said:
I'd say that this technique is based on the belief that the main reason that lagers are traditionally lagered for so long is to clear them. But clearing the beer on a homebrew scale can much more quickly be achieved by fining with gelatin. Thus rendering lagering for a month or more unnecessary. So, if you follow a strict temp controlled fermentation schedule and fine with gelatin, you can produce a great tasting lager in a fraction of the time that is traditionally recommended.
Click to expand...

Thanks that makes sense. I had thought the traditional lagering process was just for aging.
 
jmadway said:
I'd say that this technique is based on the belief that the main reason that lagers are traditionally lagered for so long is to clear them. But clearing the beer on a homebrew scale can much more quickly be achieved by fining with gelatin. Thus rendering lagering for a month or more unnecessary. So, if you follow a strict temp controlled fermentation schedule and fine with gelatin, you can produce a great tasting lager in a fraction of the time that is traditionally recommended.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, if you are only interested in clear beer. But my understanding and experience is that there are numerous chemical reactions that take place with lower temperatures that create that unique lager taste. Otherwise, why bother lagering at all? Might as well make an ale.
 
Bottoms_Up said:
Perhaps, if you are only interested in clear beer. But my understanding and experience is that there are numerous chemical reactions that take place with lower temperatures that create that unique lager taste. Otherwise, why bother lagering at all? Might as well make an ale.
Click to expand...


My understanding of this lagering technique is that if you use an appropriately large yeast pitch, a controlled fermentation which includes lager ferm temp through 50% of attenuation followed by a ramped high temp D-rest to finish out the ferment, you will have a really good lager in a much shorter amount of time than is traditionally recommended. Longer term lagering may enhance subtleties in the beer, but this will happen in the keg over time as you drink it. And if you fine with gelatin, this achieves a major goal of lagering without the time required. This is my understanding and my experience.
 
jmadway said:
My understanding of this lagering technique is that if you use an appropriately large yeast pitch, a controlled fermentation which includes lager ferm temp through 50% of attenuation followed by a ramped high temp D-rest to finish out the ferment, you will have a really good lager in a much shorter amount of time than is traditionally recommended. Longer term lagering may enhance subtleties in the beer, but this will happen in the keg over time as you drink it. And if you fine with gelatin, this achieves a major goal of lagering without the time required. This is my understanding and my experience.
Click to expand...

I agree that a large yeast pitch is a key requirement for good lagers, the controlled lager fermentation is important, and a ramped D-rest may or may not be necessary with pilsner malt, but I always do one in any case, although I wait until about 3/4 of the way through fermentation. I always fine my beer with Irish Moss, and this also clarifies the lager in a very short time, allowing me to start drinking it in about a month. However, I do find that the lager improves substantially in taste during the second month, especially with pilsners. After that the improvement is hardly noticeable.
 
So I have been fermenting at 54-55 for a week now and have hit 1.024 from 1.056. I tasted the beer and after a week its good, malty, clean, and no estery flavor. Its an Oktoberfest by the way. I went ahead and set the temp to 68 and the plan is to check it in 10 days after I get back from a trip. I havent done lagers in years because I didn't have a fermentation chamber and had to use the keezer. Now that I have a fermentation chamber I don't want to occupy it for as long as lagers typically take so I cant wait to see how this beer turns out.

David
 
g-star said:
Why would the type of malt influence the need for a diacetyl rest?
Click to expand...

My mistake. It's not the type of malt, but I understand that a long fermentation (as is usual with some pilsners) reduces the need for a diacetyl rest. However, even this is controversial. I wish I could re-locate the source.
 
I just finished my d-rest at 68 for a week. So far I have fermented about 8 days at 55, then let the temp rise to 68 over a couple days and held until day 15 (today). At this point the beer has hit its final gravity at 1.012 and tastes great. I started the cold crash and will keg this weekend, so I'll be pitch to keg in about 3 weeks and serving in under 4. If this keeps going well, I will be making more lagers for sure since the process is only about a week longer(if that) than my typical ale.

Thanks,

David
 
djonesax said:
I just finished my d-rest at 68 for a week. So far I have fermented about 8 days at 55, then let the temp rise to 68 over a couple days and held until day 15 (today). At this point the beer has hit its final gravity at 1.012 and tastes great. I started the cold crash and will keg this weekend, so I'll be pitch to keg in about 3 weeks and serving in under 4. If this keeps going well, I will be making more lagers for sure since the process is only about a week longer(if that) than my typical ale.

Thanks,

David
Click to expand...

I would love to see a pic of that when it's ready!
 
actionjackson905 said:
I would love to see a pic of that when it's ready!
Click to expand...

This technique did not work for me as far as clear beer is concerned... I was going to post a pic but the beer is so cloudy I was a little embarrassed. Not sure what I did wrong clearing it, but the beer it self tastes very good and like a lager. I cold crashed it and added 1 tsp of gelatin in 1 cup of 150 degree water to the fermenter for 3 days and I don't think it cleared a bit. So as far as no off flavors goes, I would do another lager this way, but I would cold crash it longer. Many people said that stirring in the gelatin was not necessary but I am thinking that is maybe when adding to a cony where the diameter is much less that my 15 gallon fermenter. I am considering trying to add more gelatin to the kegs to see if it clears but I have never had good luck clearing in my kegs. I always wondered if the pickup tube was always picking up a little sediment because it my first clear beer was always the last served. I'll try the gelatin again.

David
 
You want a fast Lager? do what the Commercial Breweries do to get it done in 3 weeks, Ferment at 55-60, then freeze it after it is fermented, you will have an ice block that is pure water and a small amount of concentrated beer and sludge, then slowly thaw it (36-38 degrees) takes a couple days, rack it off the sludge, run it through a .5 micron filter (cold) and you have a fast clean crisp lager. In my opinion it doesn't taste as good as one done right (3-4 months at 36 degrees) but it works.
 
budbo said:
You want a fast Lager? do what the Commercial Breweries do to get it done in 3 weeks, Ferment at 55-60, then freeze it after it is fermented, you will have an ice block that is pure water and a small amount of concentrated beer and sludge, then slowly thaw it (36-38 degrees) takes a couple days, rack it off the sludge, run it through a .5 micron filter (cold) and you have a fast clean crisp lager. In my opinion it doesn't taste as good as one done right (3-4 months at 36 degrees) but it works.
Click to expand...

What is the point of freezing it?
 
djonesax said:
This technique did not work for me as far as clear beer is concerned... I was going to post a pic but the beer is so cloudy I was a little embarrassed. Not sure what I did wrong clearing it, but the beer it self tastes very good and like a lager. I cold crashed it and added 1 tsp of gelatin in 1 cup of 150 degree water to the fermenter for 3 days and I don't think it cleared a bit. So as far as no off flavors goes, I would do another lager this way, but I would cold crash it longer. Many people said that stirring in the gelatin was not necessary but I am thinking that is maybe when adding to a cony where the diameter is much less that my 15 gallon fermenter. I am considering trying to add more gelatin to the kegs to see if it clears but I have never had good luck clearing in my kegs. I always wondered if the pickup tube was always picking up a little sediment because it my first clear beer was always the last served. I'll try the gelatin again.

David
Click to expand...

Did you add the gelatine to the 150 degree water? If so, then that's your problem. The gelatine needs to go into cold water for half an hour or so, then get heated to 150 (until it's clear) before being added to the fermenter.
 
Gnomebrewer said:
Did you add the gelatine to the 150 degree water? If so, then that's your problem. The gelatine needs to go into cold water for half an hour or so, then get heated to 150 (until it's clear) before being added to the fermenter.
Click to expand...

I never noticed that. I always heated the water first, then added gelatin and stirred, then added that to the fermenter. My beers are always very clear, but I wonder if they would be even clearer if I used the gelatin correctly :drunk:
 
Gnomebrewer said:
Did you add the gelatine to the 150 degree water? If so, then that's your problem. The gelatine needs to go into cold water for half an hour or so, then get heated to 150 (until it's clear) before being added to the fermenter.
Click to expand...

Cool water for 1 hour, then microwaved to 150, as per instructions.

I added a second gelatin addition to the second keg and we'll see in a few days if its clear.

David
 
douglasbarbin said:
I never noticed that. I always heated the water first, then added gelatin and stirred, then added that to the fermenter. My beers are always very clear, but I wonder if they would be even clearer if I used the gelatin correctly :drunk:
Click to expand...

I think the purpose is to expand the gelatin but not so much that it creates something solid when it cools. Then heating it to 150 is to pasteurize it. Boiling it, I imagine does both all in one set but then you end up with jello?

Maybe, this would make another good exBEERiment. Boiled gelatin versus cool soaked and pasteurized.

David
 
djonesax said:
I think the purpose is to expand the gelatin but not so much that it creates something solid when it cools. Then heating it to 150 is to pasteurize it. Boiling it, I imagine does both all in one set but then you end up with jello?

Maybe, this would make another good exBEERiment. Boiled gelatin versus cool soaked and pasteurized.

David
Click to expand...

I think boiling would denature the gelatine.
 
Gnomebrewer said:
Did you add the gelatine to the 150 degree water? If so, then that's your problem. The gelatine needs to go into cold water for half an hour or so, then get heated to 150 (until it's clear) before being added to the fermenter.
Click to expand...


Hmmm....I've never left the gelatin in the water prior to heating. I follow the Brulosophy method of adding the gelatin and then heating it to 150 in 7 second bursts in the microwave. Stirring in between. That's always worked for me.
 
Bottoms_Up said:
My mistake. It's not the type of malt, but I understand that a long fermentation (as is usual with some pilsners) reduces the need for a diacetyl rest. However, even this is controversial. I wish I could re-locate the source.
Click to expand...

This is why I just BIAB!!!!
 
jmadway said:
Hmmm....I've never left the gelatin in the water prior to heating. I follow the Brulosophy method of adding the gelatin and then heating it to 150 in 7 second bursts in the microwave. Stirring in between. That's always worked for me.
Click to expand...

The important bit is adding the gelatine to cold water THEN heating (as you are doing), rather than adding the gelatine to already hot water (which doesn't work very well based on my irrefutable evidence of one batch;)).

I've had success both with and without blooming the gelatine first (soaking it in cold water), but I think it's slightly clearer with the blooming (no side-by-side brews to back this up though).
 
budbo said:
You want a fast Lager? do what the Commercial Breweries do to get it done in 3 weeks, Ferment at 55-60, then freeze it after it is fermented, you will have an ice block that is pure water and a small amount of concentrated beer and sludge, then slowly thaw it (36-38 degrees) takes a couple days, rack it off the sludge, run it through a .5 micron filter (cold) and you have a fast clean crisp lager. In my opinion it doesn't taste as good as one done right (3-4 months at 36 degrees) but it works.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I have never heard this before.
 
Here is a pic of my Oktoberfest done with this method. I was drinking the beer by three three weeks but I don't think it was really ready until the end of the 3rd week. It tasted it very good but at the end of the 3rd week it was pretty clear.

I took a hundred pictures but had a really hard time with the lighting on my crappy phone camera. This is the best of the crappy pics.

David

IMG_3447.jpg
 

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