Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different
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Ezekielsays
Well-Known Member
With mine, I wasn't getting very much liquid at all. My ambient temp was probably closer to 68. I warmed it up to the mid 70s, and almost instantly (within about 5 hours, actually) the liquid level increased dramatically. I'm assuming it was too cold for the enzymes to do their job.
A taste test before warming it was not sweet at all. It seems slightly sweeter now, though that may be my imagination. It's not very sweet at this point though. I only warmed it up earlier today, so there's a chance more time will bring more sweetness.
saramc
Well-Known Member
From what I have read the yeast balls do vary based upon the region/country they are produced in. Some yield a tangy wine, others sweeter. So yeast may be the biggest variable. Sweet rice seems to be the rice all the Asian grocers guide you to, for the most part. I have used several different rices and a Vietnamnese yeast ball and one from Shanghai, I think, and my wine is sweet even up to day 30, temp 67-70F.
saramc
Well-Known Member
Sure can, it is good chilled. Then next batch just increase rice volume to account for what you want to steal. You can keep it sealed in refrig and as it rests it still ferments even cold. I have read of people actually saving the rice lees after they harvest the wine and chilling and eating, or actually combining with more steamed rice to improve texture, and then chilling that. Really good served with fresh mango or banana slices and a simple vanilla or gibger syrup or any other fruit/syrup you desire. Yes, I am a kitchen nerd.
nhamilto40
Well-Known Member
After a bit of searching i found that the moisture content of "perfectly cooked" long grain rice is between 58% and 64%. For glutinous/sweet/sticky rice it is about 75%. All this depends on the exact rice type and the the diner's preference of course.
For food use boiling is usual for non glutinous types and soaking followed by steaming for the glutinous types.
So in standardized form:
Cooked non glutinous types
100 kg dry rice
58-64 kg absorbed water
Cooked glutinous types
100 kg dry rice
75 kg absorbed water
This difference in absorbed watering the rice probably explains why glutinous rice is preferred in the most basic "cooked rice plus yeast ball" recipe.
For the more methodical brewers I would suggest measuring the weight gain due to cooking to get a starting water content.
For food use boiling is usual for non glutinous types and soaking followed by steaming for the glutinous types.
So in standardized form:
Cooked non glutinous types
100 kg dry rice
58-64 kg absorbed water
Cooked glutinous types
100 kg dry rice
75 kg absorbed water
This difference in absorbed watering the rice probably explains why glutinous rice is preferred in the most basic "cooked rice plus yeast ball" recipe.
For the more methodical brewers I would suggest measuring the weight gain due to cooking to get a starting water content.
Interesting. I find this statement odd. The proportion of long chain carbohydrates to short grain carbohydrates in a grain of rice is directly related to the length of the grain. The longer the grain of rice, the higher the proportion of long chain carbohydrates. Long chain carbohydrates are sticky, or gluey. So, long grain rice is usually listed as glutinous or sticky.
I would think that if you wanted a sweeter rice wine you would want to have a relatively low moisture content. That way the liquid you end up with as the rice saccharifies would have a higher ratio of sugar to water. Then, when the yeast reaches it's alcohol tolerance limit you still have plenty of sugar left.
For a lower water content, it would seem to me that the cooking method for the rice would be more important then the rice type. From a logic stand point, I would think that soaked and steamed rice would have a lower water content then boiled rice.
As far as the impact of the starch proportion to water retention, I would think that long chain carbohydrates would have a tendency to retain more liquid then short chains.
The attempt I made at reusing the starch mass leftover from my prior batch has been partially successful. There is some saccharification of the rice, but no clear separation of the liquid. This is also the case with the large batch in the food grade bucket. Both batches are in food grade plastic. I'm beginning to suspect that there is something in, or about, the plastic that is retarding the growth of the fungus that produces the amylase enzyme.
The large batch was made from rice yeast balls. The small one was made from leftover starch mass. The small batch has been in the mid 70's, the large batch has been slightly cooler. Neither has the white fuzz on it that both successful batches of rice wine had. I am moving the large batch to a location that will stay in the mid to upper 70's to see if the liquid will separate.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
WesleyS said:
Whatcha got against 1 gallon jars?
WesleyS
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bottlebomber said:Whatcha got against 1 gallon jars?
I hate them.
I will probably pick one up before the next batch. I was only going to fill the two containers In the back, but I decided to make more rice than originally planned so I improvised.
saramc
Well-Known Member
I do know in the reading I have done on this type of wine making, the yeast balls do vary based upon the region they are made from, not all yeast balls from China are created equal as it does have to do with the wild yeast (apparently). Some produce a tangy/sour wine while others will produce a sweeter style wine. SO, it could be the type of yeast ball vs the type of rice used. Who knows why things are turning out the way they are.
I will say I have used sweet rice, Thai Hom Mali jasmine rice, sticky rice, and a sushi rice with yeast balls from Vietnam says MEN RUOU NGOT HIEU DONG QUE on the cellophane packet, distributor IHA BEVERAGE in CA and then a Chinese one packed for HOP LEE TRADING CO in NY, has a red flower in upper right corner of bag and every ferment which is harvested between days 21-30 has yielded an off dry wine for me which has a bit of sweetness to it (at least to my palate).
saramc
Well-Known Member
Off Topic
Question: How do you reply to more than one post without having to respond individually to each one? Is that even possible? Okay, now I did a little digging an came across the information that kosciel4 was talking about in regards to determining the alcohol content of a finished product like this rice wine, or any other alcohol containing beverage for that matter. They use it all the time in for spirits and such.
This particular link explains every step and has even been simplified for amateur use and it comes with a handy chart which will tell you the ACV of your finished product. All you need is a hydrometer, small glass/enamel pan, a 250ml sample, a stove, and distilled(no tap) water! According to the research done by Dr. William Honneyman this method is just as accurate as an ebullioscope! http://valleyvintner.com/Tips&Links/MeasuringAlcohol.pdf
Yeah okay, I'm in too.
I have a batch of experimental Lactomel going, so I thought I might as well get some rice wine going as well. So for me, I went with half high quality sushi rice and half "wild sweet purple rice." It has some nice color to it if nothing else. I also found Happy Panda yeast balls.
Prep: Washed the rice until the runnings where mostly clear. Put 4 cups of the washed rice at a time in my pot. Filled it with water to one finger knuckle above the top of the rice. Brought it to a boil, set it on simmer, and let it cook for 20 minutes. Cooled it, then packed it in my 2 gallon bucket sprinkling the yeast balls on top. I just threw them in my coffee grinder to chop em up. 3 balls for every 4 cups dry rice. Managed to get about 12 cups of dry rice cooked up and stuffed in there.
Now for the fun part... waiting!
I have a batch of experimental Lactomel going, so I thought I might as well get some rice wine going as well. So for me, I went with half high quality sushi rice and half "wild sweet purple rice." It has some nice color to it if nothing else. I also found Happy Panda yeast balls.
Prep: Washed the rice until the runnings where mostly clear. Put 4 cups of the washed rice at a time in my pot. Filled it with water to one finger knuckle above the top of the rice. Brought it to a boil, set it on simmer, and let it cook for 20 minutes. Cooled it, then packed it in my 2 gallon bucket sprinkling the yeast balls on top. I just threw them in my coffee grinder to chop em up. 3 balls for every 4 cups dry rice. Managed to get about 12 cups of dry rice cooked up and stuffed in there.
Now for the fun part... waiting!
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
I had a small shot glass full of mine tonight at 10 days. It is fruity and tart with some sweetness, and this is definitely 20% alcohol if not more based on the vapors and warmth in the chest and stomach. I want to eisbock this!
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
WesleyS said:
Yes, mine was all sweet rice. Next time I think I am going to mix sweet and basmati.
Punx Clever
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After a little thought on this method, I can see how it would work. Granted I didn't actually do any math, it just passes the logic test.
As you boil the wine, both water and alcohol evaporate. By the time you've reduced the volume in half, all of the alcohol should be gone. You then replace the missing volume with water.
This way, all the dissolved solids (that would stay in through boiling) are at the same volumetric concentration, and by comparing the gravity of the wine with alcohol and the wine without alcohol, one should be able to calculate how much alcohol was in there since that is the only variable that has changed.
natedoggaz
Active Member
Here is what my Sake looks like after being in the fridge for about a week:
Is this separation normal? Will it clear up further? Should I give it more time?
Not sure what to do at this point other than drink it =)
Is this separation normal? Will it clear up further? Should I give it more time?
Not sure what to do at this point other than drink it =)
WesleyS
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My batch I made Thursday night is forming a good amount of liquid so it looks like I did something right. I also have white fuzz over the top of the rice. Looks like that fake cobweb Halloween decoration stuff. I'm assuming this is normal based upon past posts in this thread.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
WesleyS said:
Everyone seems to get something. Mine looks like off-white splotchy lacto mold.
OP
OP
Ok here is an experiment I did to attempt to discover some of the variation that people are experiencing because as I said, I have never had a bad batch. A friend recently just made a batch that turned out HORRIBLE... it tasted like dirt which leads me to believe some of you a bit more.
Here is the experiment:
Batch 1 - Control - My usual small batch. 2.5 cups dry thai jasmine rice cooked by me the way I do it (less water in cooking).
Batch 2 - Treatment - Large batch cooked by wife. 6 cups dry thai jasmine rice cooked by my wife who tends to add more water.
Results 21 days later
Batch 1 - Delicious. What I normally expect. Slightly sweet, very alcoholic, very mild tang, EXCELLENT on the nose.
Batch 2 - "Milkier" looking than batch 1 (though both are milky). Not nearly as good on the nose. VERY tangy flavor. Still good and very drinkable though.
Both of these batches were excellent and very drinkable however batch 1 rated significantly higher in taste and smell according to both me and my wife. Both batches were made on the same day, had the same ferment time, and were made in the same fermentation vessels in the same location. I am thinking that either the water content or the batch size had to be the difference. Batch 1 provides a very consistent product for me with very little variation in taste and smell so I can't imagine too many other variables.
Here is the experiment:
Batch 1 - Control - My usual small batch. 2.5 cups dry thai jasmine rice cooked by me the way I do it (less water in cooking).
Batch 2 - Treatment - Large batch cooked by wife. 6 cups dry thai jasmine rice cooked by my wife who tends to add more water.
Results 21 days later
Batch 1 - Delicious. What I normally expect. Slightly sweet, very alcoholic, very mild tang, EXCELLENT on the nose.
Batch 2 - "Milkier" looking than batch 1 (though both are milky). Not nearly as good on the nose. VERY tangy flavor. Still good and very drinkable though.
Both of these batches were excellent and very drinkable however batch 1 rated significantly higher in taste and smell according to both me and my wife. Both batches were made on the same day, had the same ferment time, and were made in the same fermentation vessels in the same location. I am thinking that either the water content or the batch size had to be the difference. Batch 1 provides a very consistent product for me with very little variation in taste and smell so I can't imagine too many other variables.
OP
OP
Yes the separation is normal. That is why I shake mine before pouring. Some people have attempted to further clear it but it seems to me that the majority have had less success with the final product taste-wise after clearing.
PS: those are the exact jars I use to ferment. I wouldn't store in them though as they allow gas exchange (Why I use them to ferment).
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
It could be that the higher water content makes the lacto a little more mobile. I know mine was VERY wet, and I definitely have a pronounced tart note. I'm going to fruit this batch up, so I figure the tartness will work well. Next batch I'm going to go drier to test out your findings, grok.
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Shouldnt you take the rice out of the jar if its done?
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Ostomo517 said:
I believe he did, and that is the sediment.
bottled mine yesterday.
My yield was ~144oz from 18c dry rice. I drained it through jersey cotton and didn't really go overboard on pressing the rice mass. I had a spoonful og the leftover rice, which tasted like vanilla champagne. I bottled in beer bottles with crown caps and pasteurized them at 140 degrees for 3 hours, then put them in the fridge, where they will remain until they're consumed.
Taste: very sweet, very alcoholic, with just a little tang. Fruity-plum and i think some vanilla. There's a lot of complexity in every shot.
It's delicious chilled, it's tasty at room temperature. The tartness comes to the front when it's heated, but it's still tasty.
SonofGrok, thank you for bringing this recipe to the HBT community.
now, please excuse me. I still have 10# of rice and 1# of yeast balls to burn through. next will be a series of experimental batches to see the difference between fermentation temps, then pasteurizing techniques and step additions.
I love this hobby!
My yield was ~144oz from 18c dry rice. I drained it through jersey cotton and didn't really go overboard on pressing the rice mass. I had a spoonful og the leftover rice, which tasted like vanilla champagne. I bottled in beer bottles with crown caps and pasteurized them at 140 degrees for 3 hours, then put them in the fridge, where they will remain until they're consumed.
Taste: very sweet, very alcoholic, with just a little tang. Fruity-plum and i think some vanilla. There's a lot of complexity in every shot.
It's delicious chilled, it's tasty at room temperature. The tartness comes to the front when it's heated, but it's still tasty.
SonofGrok, thank you for bringing this recipe to the HBT community.
now, please excuse me. I still have 10# of rice and 1# of yeast balls to burn through. next will be a series of experimental batches to see the difference between fermentation temps, then pasteurizing techniques and step additions.
I love this hobby!
So getting the fuzz after a week but I dont see any additional liquidation. Going to try to heat it up. Why did he pasturize the beer bottles I havent read anyone else doing that and can I bottle it when done in a normal wine bottle?
Also I remember reading the post on how long it lasts but I cant find it again can someone remind me or the page it was on thanks!
Also I remember reading the post on how long it lasts but I cant find it again can someone remind me or the page it was on thanks!
OP
OP
the bottle pasteurization is a cider technique. There is an excellent sticky on it in the cider thread.
You can bottle it is whatever you wish!
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Someone mentioned batch pasturization, I assume basically adding the wine in a pot and heating....wouldnt this change flavor even possibly burn off alcohol?
Grok's right, I got the idea from the "stovetop pasteurizing" sticky in the cider forum. Except I held mine at a lower temperature for a much longer time.
Traditional wine is pasteurized to halt fermentation before it's aged. There's a big temperature window where you can kill the critters without the alcohol boiling off. if you're worried about it, keep a lid on the pot so the vapors condense and drip back into the wine.
My Rice Wine with home made dried yeast balls was still liquefying but absolutely no sweet alcohol smell, just a weird sour smell. I think the problem is that my yeast did not survive the mold cultivation/drying process. I mixed in some of the pressed Rice mush off of a Sake I recently made & the yeast in that took off. Now I am starting to smell more sweet fermenting/alcohol smells. I just moved the Jar outside where it should stay a bit cooler in the 50 - 60 degree range. We will see what it is like in 2 - 3 weeks.
One big failure and one small success.
I had 2 batches running simultaneously that are now complete.
Batch 1. This was a large batch I couldn't seem to get full saccharification in. It was a 5 gallon volume of cooked rice, 30 cups of dry rice. I let it go clear to day 33, and warmed it up. It did progress somewhat, but still had small pieces of hard rice in the mix. I'm really not sure what the issue with the saccharification was. The other issue I had was that of scale. It is really difficult to get enough pressure on a rice mass that large to get a reasonable liquid extraction. I ended up yielding only one 750ml bottle of rice wine from it. At that point I gave up. *sigh* That's pretty much a wasted 8 bucks.
Batch 2. This was a much smaller batch with leftover starch mass instead of rice yeast balls. It came out very well. I did get some mold in the rice, but that isn't that uncommon with these batches. Yield was normal, no issues getting saccharification of the rice. All in all, very pleased with the batch. I do think using the leftover starch mass increased the likelihood of getting mold, but the wine is fine. This also took what the prior batch did in terms of time. 26 days.
In summary, I will not be making batches that large again. It's just to much work. I will also be running successive batches with the leftover rice starch mass. Once a batch with undesirable mold in it occurs, I will start the next batch from yeast balls. That should reduce the need for the rice yeast balls by 1/2 or more. The next experiment will be rice wine vinegar, though I think all I really need for that is some more time with the last batch I've got running.
I had 2 batches running simultaneously that are now complete.
Batch 1. This was a large batch I couldn't seem to get full saccharification in. It was a 5 gallon volume of cooked rice, 30 cups of dry rice. I let it go clear to day 33, and warmed it up. It did progress somewhat, but still had small pieces of hard rice in the mix. I'm really not sure what the issue with the saccharification was. The other issue I had was that of scale. It is really difficult to get enough pressure on a rice mass that large to get a reasonable liquid extraction. I ended up yielding only one 750ml bottle of rice wine from it. At that point I gave up. *sigh* That's pretty much a wasted 8 bucks.
Batch 2. This was a much smaller batch with leftover starch mass instead of rice yeast balls. It came out very well. I did get some mold in the rice, but that isn't that uncommon with these batches. Yield was normal, no issues getting saccharification of the rice. All in all, very pleased with the batch. I do think using the leftover starch mass increased the likelihood of getting mold, but the wine is fine. This also took what the prior batch did in terms of time. 26 days.
In summary, I will not be making batches that large again. It's just to much work. I will also be running successive batches with the leftover rice starch mass. Once a batch with undesirable mold in it occurs, I will start the next batch from yeast balls. That should reduce the need for the rice yeast balls by 1/2 or more. The next experiment will be rice wine vinegar, though I think all I really need for that is some more time with the last batch I've got running.
Decided to jump on the bandwagon and try a half sweet rice/half jasmine rice batch.
I was not 100% sure the "rice cakes" were the yeast balls but they looked right and they were in the rice aisle so I took a chance on them. I shop at the local Chinese market quite a bit and a lot of the products they carry have similarly vague/poor translations
I compared the Chinese characters to the characters on the yeast balls others had posted in this thread and they looked the same to me. Though for all I know that just means "Made in China"
Made about eight cups of rice and packed it in the 2 gallon cookie jar I use for Kimchi and sour pickles:
After 24 hours the liquid was to the top of the rice. Tasted a bit of the liquid and it was sweet. That's a bit fast for spontaneous fermentation so I guess they were the right yeast balls.
So far so good
I was not 100% sure the "rice cakes" were the yeast balls but they looked right and they were in the rice aisle so I took a chance on them. I shop at the local Chinese market quite a bit and a lot of the products they carry have similarly vague/poor translations
I compared the Chinese characters to the characters on the yeast balls others had posted in this thread and they looked the same to me. Though for all I know that just means "Made in China"
Made about eight cups of rice and packed it in the 2 gallon cookie jar I use for Kimchi and sour pickles:
After 24 hours the liquid was to the top of the rice. Tasted a bit of the liquid and it was sweet. That's a bit fast for spontaneous fermentation so I guess they were the right yeast balls.
So far so good
natedoggaz
Active Member
Bottled my sake tonight....yielded about 6 cups, or enough to fill 3 16oz bottles:
From left to right: Blackberry, Raspberry, Blueberry
After flavoring, it was SUPER tart, so I added some equal to it and it tasted much better!
I then pasteurized all 3, and now they are cooling off in the fridge...
ND
From left to right: Blackberry, Raspberry, Blueberry
After flavoring, it was SUPER tart, so I added some equal to it and it tasted much better!
I then pasteurized all 3, and now they are cooling off in the fridge...
ND
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Looks delicious!! Did u just add puree fruit and pasturize?
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