Why do all grain when LME/DME & Partial Grain so EASY?

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I brew all grain just about once a week. I also work in a shipping department, and the past week beat me up quite a bit. I took it easy and did an extract batch instead and damn it was nice. Doesn't scratch the "i must control everything" itch like all grain does, but it was a nice change of pace and an easier brew day. Either method it is up to the brewer.

Also, oatmeal stouts are totally worth the extra effort of mashing.
 
My small house, my SWMBO, time and out of necessity. I brew extract. I just don't have the storage space for the gear. My man cave is a closet and its to the gills. I envy the guys with a garage.

Outside of that. Paying 3.50 for a Sam Adams 12oz because of taxes and the bodega thinks its exotic beer. Start to Finnish my brew day is a couple of hours.
 
Phunhog said:
It's not about it being "easier"!! It is about enjoying the process of brewing. Brewing with extracts takes a large part of the brewing process out of your hands.
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This is it for me. Yeah, the other benefits definitely play a part. Cost, control, but in the end, I really enjoy brewing beer and that's why I do it. It's like building your own furniture, rebuilding a classic car, you do it for the love of doing it.
 
The nice thing is it can be as easy or complex as one wants it to be. In the end were making something thats better than you can buy. Doing this were not supporting big advertisment
 
Okay... you guys worked me over on this one (not that this thread was just about me). I will have to learn more about the mash schedules though and find some easy ones first.

Is base grain cheaper than LME by much? In some cases you need 8-10 lbs of grain.

Also, where is the scientific evidence about the sugar/enzyme/temp change reactions?
 
ryno1ryno said:
Okay... you guys worked me over on this one (not that this thread was just about me). I will have to learn more about the mash schedules though and find some easy ones first.

Is base grain cheaper than LME by much? In some cases you need 8-10 lbs of grain.

Also, where is the scientific evidence about the sugar/enzyme/temp change reactions?
Click to expand...

Base grain can be very cheap, especially when you start buying it in bulk.

I'd suggest doing some reading, John Palmer's How To Brew is a great place to start! The first edition is free online, here's the "intro to all grain" chapter:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/index.html
 
Personally, I went all-grain in an effort to eliminate the omnipresent sweet-metallic extract "twang" that was in my canned extract kit+LME beers. Having made the transition, I now feel much more pride in my beer. When I serve someone an extract kit beer, and they ask, "This is homemade?", I feel compelled to offer a disclaimer, "Yes, I made this, but it's from an extract kit, not from scratch." Conversely, when I pour a guest a pint brewed from grains, I proudly answer, "Yup, made it from scratch. Come on downstairs, I'd be happy to show you the brewery."

It's empowering knowing you have complete control of the entire process, from grain selection, milling tolerances, mash temperature/schedule, plus (of course) everything after the mash, which is in common with extract brewers. It's a source of pride for me.
 
kombat said:
Personally, I went all-grain in an effort to eliminate the omnipresent sweet-metallic extract "twang" that was in my canned extract kit+LME beers. Having made the transition, I now feel much more pride in my beer. When I serve someone an extract kit beer, and they ask, "This is homemade?", I feel compelled to offer a disclaimer, "Yes, I made this, but it's from an extract kit, not from scratch." Conversely, when I pour a guest a pint brewed from grains, I proudly answer, "Yup, made it from scratch. Come on downstairs, I'd be happy to show you the brewery."

It's empowering knowing you have complete control of the entire process, from grain selection, milling tolerances, mash temperature/schedule, plus (of course) everything after the mash, which is in common with extract brewers. It's a source of pride for me.
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IMO, a good number of us go all grain more for the control than cost savings. Although you CAN save good money if you buy your grain right.

Raise a pint if you brew all grain. :rockin: Well, maybe a pint of coffee at this wee hour. :D
 
AnOldUR said:
I'd guess that the OCD that drives someone to AG also means that they'll never save money by homebrewing.
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Especially if you end up picking 8 different types of specialty grains.

Okay, I have already seen recipes that call for different darkness but of the same type... for instance, Carmel 30L, Carmel 60L and then Carmel 130L in the same recipe. I mean, cant all that just be averaged and simplified?
 
No. Each of the caramel/crystal malts brings a completely different flavor profile, from light sweetness, caramel, toffee, burnt sugar, raisins, etc. Averaging them might give you the same color, but not the same flavor.
 
AnOldUR said:
I'd guess that the OCD that drives someone to AG also means that they'll never save money by homebrewing.
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Not really. At least not if you're smart about buying your ingredients. Paying $80 per sack of grain is insane (after shipping and such). But getting in on a group grain buy means you might spend half that. Buy hops in bulk and you save again. Easy to save on yeast with at least a few methods too.
 
AnOldUR said:
Wasn't talking about just ingredients. Have you put a price tag on your entire system?
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Nope... Don't need to. Most of the gear is actually stuff I've made/modified. The few exceptions are the Duda Diesel chiller, Monster Mill MM2-2.0 and Blichmann burners. :D

(. . . and not the one you show to your wife :cross:)
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Not married. :cross: So I don't need to show anyone anything. :rockin:

Also, IF you're decent with tools, you can make a good amount of the gear you'll use.
 
AnOldUR said:
I'd guess that the OCD that drives someone to AG also means that they'll never save money by homebrewing.
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I guess the complacency that allows you to stay with extract or prefab kits will only ever allow you to make someone elses beer recipe.



see what I did there ;)
 
Nightshade said:
I think you are vastly underrating the ingredent selection and quantity as well as quality of each which takes your mash technique up a bit higher since they are related in some fashion.
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No way! Sure, it plays a role in technique, but a much bigger role in recipe formulation, which I purposefully excluded.

There's just not that big a difference in recipes between all-grain and extract with steeping grains. I'd say the biggest difference between the two comes during fermentation and fermentability of the wort (which also comes from mash technique)

If you're talking about straight extract brewing (no grains), I would certainly agree with you, but who does that?
 
malweth said:
No way! Sure, it plays a role in technique, but a much bigger role in recipe formulation, which I purposefully excluded.

There's just not that big a difference in recipes between all-grain and extract with steeping grains. I'd say the biggest difference between the two comes during fermentation and fermentability of the wort (which also comes from mash technique)

If you're talking about straight extract brewing (no grains), I would certainly agree with you, but who does that?
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Depending on when the brewer ads the extract, you can get a very different color, and flavors, brewing with it. You can also get different hop utilization from partial boils (very common for extract/extract with steeping grains) brewers.

IMO/IME, there's a significant difference between extract/extract with steeping grains and all grain brewing. Not just in the process and hardware/gear but also with what you get into your glass.

BTW, fermentation and the fermentibility of the wort are HUGE items. With all grain, I can mash so that the batch FG will be low, or I can simply change the mash temperature and have it finish much higher. One simple change can produce very different brews.

Personally, I cannot see ever going back to extract with steeping grains. I did all of one partial mash batch early on. IME, it was just as easy to go all grain, so I did.
 
For Ipa and pales I see no reason not to use extract only. But for more complex beers like Pilsners or German ales grain would be needed.
 
OldWorld said:
For Ipa and pales I see no reason not to use extract only. But for more complex beers like Pilsners or German ales grain would be needed.
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Making that separation is just wrong on so many levels, for me. For one, I don't brew pilsners or German brews. For another, my pale ales, IPA's, etc. are beyond great as all grain. Going all extract with either of those is a travesty, IMO. It's like using canned tomato sauce (not pasta sauce here) and thinking it's fine on noodles. :eek: Sure, if your pallet can't tell the difference, but don't mislead yourself into thinking it's something great, or even good.

After the post by OldWorld I just need to take a shower... :eek:
 
ryno1ryno said:
Especially if you end up picking 8 different types of specialty grains.

Okay, I have already seen recipes that call for different darkness but of the same type... for instance, Carmel 30L, Carmel 60L and then Carmel 130L in the same recipe. I mean, cant all that just be averaged and simplified?
Click to expand...

A good analogy for this would be spaghetti sauce (again!).

You can use basil, parsley and oregano in the sauce if you like it. But you cannot sub one for the other- as they are not the same. They are spices- but they are not the same spice.

It's true of caramel/crystal malts also. Sure, they are the same in that they are grains. But they are not the same grain.

Just as basil is not oregano, crystal 20L is not crystal 120L.

Most of my batches of "regular" beer, like cream ale or ambers are less than $10 per 5 gallons to make. Really hoppy beers might be $15-18 per 5 gallons (I buy hops by the pound, but they are still the most expensive part). But I probably spent $3500(?) on my set up with the all-electric HERMS, two pumps, the grain mill, the RO water system, etc. That's just a wild guess, as I really have no clue.

So it's not that I went with my system to save money! It just makes brewing so much easier that it's worth it to me, and it is a hobby after all.
 
BTW, just as you can have different versions of basil and oregano, you can also have different crystal malts. You have the typical range for the US/Canada malting companies, but then you have some of the UK companies making others. Such as having the C10-C120 on this side of the pond, you also have British crystal malts (I, II and then Dark I and Dark II) that are at different levels. They will give you something different than the US/Canadian malt versions.
 
OldWorld said:
For Ipa and pales I see no reason not to use extract only. But for more complex beers like Pilsners or German ales grain would be needed.
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All grain is cheaper, and if you have the set up, why pay more for extract?
 
Golddiggie said:
BTW, just as you can have different versions of basil and oregano, you can also have different crystal malts. You have the typical range for the US/Canada malting companies, but then you have some of the UK companies making others. Such as having the C10-C120 on this side of the pond, you also have British crystal malts (I, II and then Dark I and Dark II) that are at different levels. They will give you something different than the US/Canadian malt versions.
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exactly! I learned long ago that where the crystal malt comes from can have a huge impact on the final result. same with base malts.
 
i used to think that also, i am making good beer now why should i go all grain, my best answer to that is if you are happy wit what you are doing then keep doing it, if you are like me and want to get more into it then give AG a try i was suprised at how easy it realy is and you get the satisfaction of saying yes i did it from scratch.:mug:
 
Billy-Klubb said:
exactly! I learned long ago that where the crystal malt comes from can have a huge impact on the final result. same with base malts.
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The company that does the malting can also impact the product. Just as Great Western will use their processes, Thomas Fawcett uses theirs. Both end up with malted barley, but the actual processes (tweaked by them) and geographical locations, will impact the product. I would wager that the malts processed by US and Canadian companies can be interchanged without any thoughts at all.

I don't expect to ever find out, unless the UK companies start boycotting US sales. :eek: Now THAT would be an end of the world sign if there ever was one. :drunk:
 
Golddiggie said:
The company that does the malting can also impact the product. Just as Great Western will use their processes, Thomas Fawcett uses theirs. Both end up with malted barley, but the actual processes (tweaked by them) and geographical locations, will impact the product. I would wager that the malts processed by US and Canadian companies can be interchanged without any thoughts at all.

I don't expect to ever find out, unless the UK companies start boycotting US sales. :eek: Now THAT would be an end of the world sign if there ever was one. :drunk:
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I would have to re-locate my family. and my wife would be pissed.
 
I haven't brewed an all grain YET but here is my thought on this. When I was bottling my first batch this weekend my wife told me that looks like a lot of work and that got me thinking about why go to the trouble to brew my own. The answer I came up with is why grow my own fruit/vegetables when I probably spend more money growing my own? Why spend all day smoking meats when I can throw it in the crockpot with liquid smoke and/or BBQ sauce? I could probably come up with a dozen other examples. But at the end of the day it is the pride in saying I did that and it is good/great.
 
CatHead said:
I haven't brewed an all grain YET but here is my thought on this. When I was bottling my first batch this weekend my wife told me that looks like a lot of work and that got me thinking about why go to the trouble to brew my own. The answer I came up with is why grow my own fruit/vegetables when I probably spend more money growing my own? Why spend all day smoking meats when I can throw it in the crockpot with liquid smoke and/or BBQ sauce? I could probably come up with a dozen other examples. But at the end of the day it is the pride in saying I did that and it is good/great.
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It's a hobby. You shouldn't think about it as trouble. We do it because we enjoy the process as well as the product. Same with cooking, gardening, knitting, woodworking, etc.
 
ryno1ryno said:
Okay... you guys worked me over on this one (not that this thread was just about me). I will have to learn more about the mash schedules though and find some easy ones first.

Is base grain cheaper than LME by much? In some cases you need 8-10 lbs of grain.

Also, where is the scientific evidence about the sugar/enzyme/temp change reactions?
Click to expand...

A full sack of 55 pounds of base malt is like $35. At retail.
 
zachattack said:
It's a hobby. You shouldn't think about it as trouble. We do it because we enjoy the process as well as the product. Same with cooking, gardening, knitting, woodworking, etc.
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Probably used the wrong word. I don't really think of it as "trouble". I actually enjoyed 95% of my time with it. Just pointing out there are easier ways to get things.
 
CatHead said:
Probably used the wrong word. I don't really think of it as "trouble". I actually enjoyed 95% of my time with it. Just pointing out there are easier ways to get things.
Click to expand...

:mug: I was actually referring to your wife's take on it. If you think of somebody's time spent on a hobby as "work," you don't understand what a hobby is!
 

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