DYI vs Off the shelf breakeven point?

I've always liked the idea of DIY, and am inclined to so when possible. However I've had quiet a few that ended up with a final cost within 20% of just going out and buying it which usually bums me out.

For example I'm pricing out DIY stirplate with parts from radio shack bare minimum I"m looking at about $25 bucks include tax. That's assuming I can scrounge up the extra wire and wall wort I need. If I have to buy 2 spools of wire cost would go to about $30. (I have tons of PC fans and dead hard drives lying about)

By comparison I could simply order a pre-made stirplate from Stir Starters: Yeast stir plate for the home brewer for $42 shipped.

So if I do the DIY right and don't screw anything up at best I'm looking at a 40% savings off retail, not counting my time. That's usually a good enough breaking point to go the DIY route for me

This lead me to wonder what everyone's breakeven point is on when they decide to head down the DIY path vs just buying it off the shelf (and getting a warranty).

For me, the benefit is the DIY aspect itself. If it looks like I can build it for less and/or if it looks like it is a project worth my time I will go the DIY route.

I think in the case of the stir plate, you can build one that would be equivalent to a higher priced stir plate and it would still cost less than the cheapest one you could find. I always feel I could just buy the cheap one, but I never want just the cheap one. I wan't a bada$$ one.

I like DIY when it comes to things I KNOW how to do. I recently ghetto rigged a DIY stir plate. That was stretching my DIY talents.

I made my own Keezer and Keezer cart. That's way below retail cost.

But as I said, sometimes buying it already done is easier for some of us and not worth the hassle of losing one's temper when it doesn't work out they way other people said it would.

Those who DIY with everything, more power to you. come to my house and lend me your whits.

For me the novice I initially looked at my brewstand like this.

Buy new..... Roughly $1000
Pay a welder $500-plus burners etc
DIY.. Price of materials. $300-$400

What I failed to account for was all the other things I needed. My welder was only $100. But then my angle grinder miter saw work bench additional tools etc added up to over $500 plus hours of learning to actually use this stuff. .... I guess the trade off is that I've learned a fun new skill and will eventually be able to build a lot of other things with my new skills and tools.. I prefer the DIY route because it's more fun, not because it's cheaper in my case.... That's just me though.

I do it for doing it and don't think much about the price. I could've made my own stir plate, I even have most of the parts, but it is a boring project for me so I just bought a couple. I put lots of money into my Keezer but probably ended up paying less than a comparable unit (if there is such a thing). I am making some BIAB bags simply because it looked like a fun project and I wanted to brush up on my sewing. Don't think I will save any money since I'm planning on trying a couple things so bought extra stuff but don't really care.

For me, it really isn't the idea of how much I save when doing a DIY, its the fact that I save at all and I have a project that gets me in the garage doing what I love and it is going towards something I love more (brewing). I do understand the idea of a warranty on something I can buy but if its something simple like a PC fan that I can get all day long for free (friends in low places) I'll still do the DIY. If you dont love doing DIY, follow your heart. Myself, I've built everything from my brew stand to my brew pot to my mash tun (cooler came from a roadside find, no shame on my end).

For me it's more than just cost. Electrical work isn't my strong point. For $15 difference, I'd definitely buy one. That's me though.

There's other things where in the end I lose money, but I HAVE to diy. Best example is....brewing beer. I'll probably never break even on the equipment I have, but I simply don't care.

Tomtanner said:

For me the novice I initially looked at my brewstand like this.

Buy new..... Roughly $1000
Pay a welder $500-plus burners etc
DIY.. Price of materials. $300-$400

What I failed to account for was all the other things I needed. My welder was only $100. But then my angle grinder miter saw work bench additional tools etc added up to over $500 plus hours of learning to actually use this stuff. .... I guess the trade off is that I've learned a fun new skill and will eventually be able to build a lot of other things with my new skills and tools.. I prefer the DIY route because it's more fun, not because it's cheaper in my case.... That's just me though.

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hehe I just met a guy on here who lives near me. He built a single tier and is mounting my current burners onto it. All for just 280.

For me it depends on how comfortable I am with the DIY, I'm a mechanic by trade so most things I'm comfortable with, simple electrical, welding, and using power tools.

However I'm also a busy guy with a large family so I look at the project and ask myself, how much am I going to save?, how long is it gonna take me? And do I have put out all the money now?

My stirplate I made I scavenged most parts but sill had to buy a few things and it cost me $20 so I made it. My bottle tree is 6 ft high and holds 90 bottles and it took an hour to make and have less than $20 invested so I made it. Now my IC I bought one it was gonna cost me more for the parts than I could get one shipped to my door and I was still gonna have to actually make it.

I look at the big picture not just will it save me money.

I'm definitely NOT a DIYer

OneHoppyGuy said:

I'm definitely NOT a DIYer

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Wait a minute.... Don't you sell brew strands?

LOL... was wondering when someone would comment. There are few things I don't do myself.

For me, DIY'ing is more fun than actually brewing. It's not really about saving money, it's about getting it done the way I want. Actually, I guess it is about saving, 'cuz there's no way I'm gonna be able to afford it if it was done the way I want it. Take my keezer for example. It would've cost me 4 times as much if I would've paid someone to do it.

I'm not gonna DIY anything that I can go out and buy for less than $50 even if I save a lot of money doing it myself. It just wouldn't be worth it.

For me, I weigh the value (to me of course) of the skill learned and the cost savings vs the PITA factor of the task at hand. For example, I don't think I would learn anything particularly valuable relative to the headache that coiling stainless steel tubing can be, so I would just buy a SS immersion chiller if I were making a HERMS coil. Copper, however is much less aggravating to coil, so even given moderate to low cost savings, I would probably coil that myself.

Also, if buying new tools causes me to just break even with retail, I figure I've come out ahead because the project is done AND I have new tools.

TheDom said:

Also, if buying new tools causes me to just break even with retail, I figure I've come out ahead because the project is done AND I have new tools.

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This is the logic I always try with SWMBO, it rarely works but oh well. She claims I "tinker" to much with stuff, but that's whats fun to me. I'd rather spend 10 hours building a counterflow chiller so I know intimately how it works, rather than buying one online, paying a couple bucks extra for, and not having the parts or know-how to fix it when I'm done.

I try to DIY all that I can because it's fun and I have a bunch of tools and a small amount of experience using them.

However, I already have tons of projects, so sometimes I do buy something that is not much more than I can build it for.

Last night I tested a home etched PWM circuit for stirplate control. With the several printer switchboxes and computer fans I have set aside, I can make stirplates for my friends for less than $10 each.

I'll admit that when I saw the StirStarter plates at a homebrew event, I was pretty impressed!

I love the experience gained from DIY.

That being said, the degree of time/cost comes into play. in the example of the stirplate, an extra $20 bucks over what it cost to build it myself is a deal. That time can be spent doing other things for your brewing.

If it is a $200 difference then it is going to perk up my ears and give me justification to get the wife to go along.

It also matters to my skill set and what comes easy for me, and what materials I have laying around or have access to.

I built a HLT and probally would have come out ALOT cheaper if I had had someone else build it, but as a poster above stated, I wanted done a very specific way for my system. (= DIY project)

So to answer your question, it really is a case by case scenario for each DIY project.

For me it is a balance between the amount of time, cost difference as well as the quality of the finished product. If I feel I can make something better for the same cost I will make it myself. Plus if I feel like I will gain a better understanding of how the unit works or learn something in the process that influences my decision as well.

I just built my first stir plate and any one you build with parts from Radio shack will be equivalent to the "Stir Starter" plate. The person making these is essentially building them the exact same way as you will. It doesn't take too much time and its a fun little project.

I really only try to DIY for custom solutions. If someone is making a quality product exactly as I want it, I will just save to buy that item.

The stir plate is a perfect example. I bought two, because I wouldn't have saved a ton building them myself, I was guaranteed they would work as advertized, and I didn't need to find the time to build them/source parts.

I am all over DIY... just something else to do in this hobby. so if it doesn't cost more I will build it.

Texan said:

I love the experience gained from DIY.

That being said, the degree of time/cost comes into play. in the example of the stirplate, an extra $20 bucks over what it cost to build it myself is a deal. That time can be spent doing other things for your brewing.

If it is a $200 difference then it is going to perk up my ears and give me justification to get the wife to go along.

It also matters to my skill set and what comes easy for me, and what materials I have laying around or have access to.

I built a HLT and probally would have come out ALOT cheaper if I had had someone else build it, but as a poster above stated, I wanted done a very specific way for my system. (= DIY project)

So to answer your question, it really is a case by case scenario for each DIY project.

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Just an FYI for those looking for custom kettle work. We do a lot of that. We also have the 'street coupling' (male one side, female the other) like the one used on MoreBeer valve ports.

For me it's both fun, and the knowledge that I'm getting out of it exactly what I want, as long as I plan it out.

My first stand was great and it's now in the hands of a friend - I used it to get going and to know what I REALLY want in a stand. I re-used old stuff laying around.

Now I'm building a new stand out of an old stand-alone server rack (before the rack-mounted servers) - really robust and I have plenty of room to pipe gas and water and get the heights, the desk, everything exactly where I want it.

Just realized it says DYI....Do Yourself In?

3PegBrew said:

Just realized it says DYI....Do Yourself In?

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Lol! Can't believe I missed it!

I DIY as much as I can, but then there's also the consideration of time. If I can make something for $40 that sells for $150 but takes a whole boatload of time, I'll seriously consider just buying it instead.

I DIY because I enjoy it and for the money, generally come out with a better product.

Keezer- about $1200 in. But it holds 10+ cornies, four taps all individually regulated. For the money, I could have bought a nice kegerator, but not nearly as functional.

Keggle- probably got over $200 in...but that won't even get a a good 15 gal plain pot

for me it is a function of three things

1) can I do it myself (I'm pretty handy and have nearly any tool I could need, plus plenty of machine tools at work, so that part is easy), so I do end up doing a good many things DIY.

2) $'s saved divided by time spent . I could care less about the percent, who cares if it is 90% off if it is $5.00 project. My time is valuable.

3) end result. Take my fermentation chamber for example. It is half store bought fridge(well, craigslist), half DIY. I put the $40.00 or so into the aquarium controller, but had absolutely no interest in hacking up one of my mini fridges and trying to attach it to an insulated wooden box. That would have just been too much effort, and if I ever wanted to use it for something else it would be difficult. With my setup all I have to do is remove the aquarium controller & put the shelves back in. Plus it looks nice sitting in the garage.

3PegBrew said:

Just realized it says DYI....Do Yourself In?

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TheDom said:

Lol! Can't believe I missed it!

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Can't believe I missed it also I don't seem to be able to edit the title, so I guess this thread will just have to live with doin itself in

I seem to share the same sentiment with a lot of people in this thread. I'll look to a DIY option if I can save at least 25%, come close to even but end up with new tools or if it can be done cheaper and looks like a fun project to learn (stir plate for example).

Jukas said:

I've always liked the idea of DIY, and am inclined to so when possible. However I've had quiet a few that ended up with a final cost within 20% of just going out and buying it which usually bums me out.

For example I'm pricing out DIY stirplate with parts from radio shack bare minimum I"m looking at about $25 bucks include tax. That's assuming I can scrounge up the extra wire and wall wort I need. If I have to buy 2 spools of wire cost would go to about $30. (I have tons of PC fans and dead hard drives lying about)

By comparison I could simply order a pre-made stirplate from Stir Starters: Yeast stir plate for the home brewer for $42 shipped.

So if I do the DIY right and don't screw anything up at best I'm looking at a 40% savings off retail, not counting my time. That's usually a good enough breaking point to go the DIY route for me

This lead me to wonder what everyone's breakeven point is on when they decide to head down the DIY path vs just buying it off the shelf (and getting a warranty).

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My break point is a couple of dollars if the diy project is easy.

As to your stirplate example why is it costing so much?

Mine:
Box = free
magnet from hard drive = free
fan from computer = free
power supply from old answering machine = free
Rheostat and knob from Radio Shack = $4.75
Nuts and bolts for mounting fan - Walmart = $.99

Total = $5.74

Made a chiller. 2 lengths of copper tubing $40, Vinyl tubing $5, hose fitting and hose clamps $3 Total $48 dollars.

Online = $38 + $20 shipping = $58 total

I priced out a cooler valve and could only save a few dollars so I bought a kit and did not have to locate and figure out all the parts.

I love the DIY aspect of this hobby and will generally spend the same amount if I feel that my product will be the equal of what I would have purchased. Heck, because of homebrewing I know way more about plumbing, electrical, and metalworking than I EVER would have otherwise. As a homeowner, DIY in homebrewing has saved me so much money, (we bought a foreclosure,) and earned so much credit from SWMBO it is unquestionably worth it.

For myself the DIY aspect can mean quite a lot. I have a decent background in electronics, microcontrollers, and mechanical engineering. I've built my own pump box, stir plate, fermentation chamber, coffin-lid keezer, and a small kegerator. Given the $/hour I make at work most of my projects have ended up money losers compared to just buying it at retail prices. However, I enjoy putting my knowledge to the test and learning how the things I use work. I like knowing that I can fix my equipment myself if it breaks, because I built it myself.

I've also used my skills to build a custom sous-vide cooker for perfectly cooked steaks, roasts, and fowl for about 1/4 what a commercial version costs. Sure I spent 4 hours building it which completely negated any cost savings (if I only look at my hourly wage) but I have increased my knowledge and competency by building it.

Building things is becoming a lost art here in the states, and being able to understand how a complex system works and building one of your own is a skill that any employer will understand means that you can be someone who Gets.Things.Done!

My other DYI adventures include building a 3d printer, home theater with subs built into the couch, custom car subwoofer-to-home-subwoofer rebuild, and a cheap-a@@ home machine shop.

I think of it in the economic terms of opportunity cost.

I DIY things for two reasons:
1. It can be fun
2. I don't have the money to buy the real deal.

If we are considering just part 1, then really money is not the main issue. For example I make aluminum castings with my forge I built to melt aluminum. This was all costly and really had yielded nothing worth value except fun.

However, if we are considering 2, then the cost of materials vs. the cost of the product comes into play. Using the aforementioned story, I built my own forge because a real forge is 1. expensive and 2. hard to get. However it is not a very high quality forge.

When I need to include BOTH of the ideas opportunity cost comes into play. So I think "How much do I want to build this, How long will it take, and how much does the real deal cost?"

Those three things are key to any project. Currently I am installing a new stereo in my car, a very DIY project. However, you need a wiring harness to connect the new deck to the stock internals of your car. Sure I could wire one up myself, spending hours researching information that will be used once in my life, and then spending a couple hours building it. I do enjoy learning, and I do enjoy soldering, but building a mundane wiring harness isn't a fun DIY project.As well, a wiring harness costs between 12-30 bucks. I would rather work a couple hours at my day job making the money to buy one than build a wiring harness for my stereo. Two benefits of this: I would already be at work and I have free time not at work not building a wiring harness to do whatever I want.

My DIY always ends up being more expensive then off the shelf. I usually over engineer and have to buy some new tools to boot. I was going to build this counterflow chiller that was the bomb. The final cost would have been $120 easy... I bought a $50 buck immersion chiller, it works great.... I didn't have nearly as much fun though.

I love to do stuff myself and it usually ends up costing me more than i could have bought it for

More often than not, I do a DIY when I cannot get what I want, but can make it. IF I don't count how long it takes me to make the item, it usually comes out cheaper than trying to buy something that's close to the same. Such as the sight tube I'm putting together. I've not seen any, other than those from Blichmann, that dump back into the kettle/keggle. I also see almost all of them using polycarbonate/plastic for the tube. Not something I trust for the long term. So, I'm building one using borosilicate glass, stainless fittings, and set to dump back into the kettle/keggle. I did a dry fit tonight and expect to have the keggle built within another months (or two). Basically, before I need to boil more than will fit in my 10 gallon Blichmann kettle.

Golddiggie said:

More often than not, I do a DIY when I cannot get what I want, but can make it. IF I don't count how long it takes me to make the item, it usually comes out cheaper than trying to buy something that's close to the same. Such as the sight tube I'm putting together. I've not seen any, other than those from Blichmann, that dump back into the kettle/keggle. I also see almost all of them using polycarbonate/plastic for the tube. Not something I trust for the long term. So, I'm building one using borosilicate glass, stainless fittings, and set to dump back into the kettle/keggle. I did a dry fit tonight and expect to have the keggle built within another months (or two). Basically, before I need to boil more than will fit in my 10 gallon Blichmann kettle.

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Just reading your post. What do you mean by "dumps back in"? At the top or the bottom? I ordered mine from brewhardware.com, and it drains from the bottom back into the keg when draining due to the T-fitting.

This also applies to the thread. I could not buy the sight-glass fittings, tubing, thermometer, etc for any cheaper than the kit I ordered, so this was one of those things I could not DIY for cheap. I have built pretty much everything else though (i.e. stir-plate, e-bay temp controller for kegerator, keggle, brew room, mash tun, I.C., etc).

I'm talking about it dumping during the boil. On my Blichmann kettle, during a good boil, wort flows up the site tube, and dumps back in at the top.

I've not seen any site tube/glass designs that I've been happy with. I have my initial design made, just need to tweak it a little before installing it into a keggle. The only thing that I might change is the actual site glass/tube length.

Part of my setup will also include a shield. I'll be using the tubes from sanke keg spears there. I'll just need to cut a groove in it (might put two in it) so that you can see the wort going through the tube. I plan on marking the stainless tube with the gallon levels.

Golddiggie said:

I'm talking about it dumping during the boil. On my Blichmann kettle, during a good boil, wort flows up the site tube, and dumps back in at the top.

I've not seen any site tube/glass designs that I've been happy with. I have my initial design made, just need to tweak it a little before installing it into a keggle. The only thing that I might change is the actual site glass/tube length.

Part of my setup will also include a shield. I'll be using the tubes from sanke keg spears there. I'll just need to cut a groove in it (might put two in it) so that you can see the wort going through the tube. I plan on marking the stainless tube with the gallon levels.

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Gotcha. That is what I was wondering. Sounds pretty cool! I would like to see how you cut the grooves in the dip tubes, as I think it would be awesome to do the same over the tube I have now. I used my dip tube to make a hop-sock. Simple, easy, life is good.

I would like to see how you get it all set-up when it is finished also!

Shoot me a PM with your contact info and I'll send you images when it's at that stage.

Of all the things I've wanted to make, for myself and other home brewers, this is the most likely to be of use to more people.

For the grooves, I'm planning (initially) on using my right angle grinder to make a pass between two drilled holes.