Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

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Newbie question. ..
After fermentation.
Can I/should I, stabilize, clear and degas as you would a normal wine?
Thanks
 
I have now read every single one of the 1445 posts in this thread... (there oughta be a prize!). :drunk:

First off, I swear I won't ask if I can use a different yeast! :D

Quick background on me; I have ZERO completed brewing experience unless you count starting a 4 gallon batch of mead with an ex-girlfriend in the late '90's - we broke up and she got the batch, the carboys, the books, the notes - everything. I got off easy though, her next boyfriend is stuck with her for 18 years plus college expenses.
Oh, and I've done some home-brewed fermented soda... I make a decent lemon-ginger soda with bread yeast.

So I'm thinking about making a batch of JAOM.. or two... to take to a family reunion next June. I have a couple questions and want to get some clarity on some other steps.

1. I live in a cool climate all year round, where my inside temps are unlikely to get over 60-64 degrees between now and June - how big an issue is this going to be for the bread-yeast? I keep a sourdough starter, and know that the yeasts in there operate slower.. is it just a matter of being in the fermenter longer? Or should I devise a clever warming pad?

2. I get that racking after two months (or when clear - which is the most important measure, I've gathered) is not necessary - but for those of us a little klutzy with a siphon, is there any harm in racking to a clean bucket, allowing to settle for a few days, then racking into bottles?

3. I'm not clear on whether it's "better" to leave it in the fermenter longer, vs bottling once clear for flavor development. Will it mature better left in the fermenter, or bottled?

4. My water is moderately chlorinated - will boiling it to drive off the chlorine be sufficient, or should I just spend a couple buck on a few gallons of bottled water. Come to think of it, does it even matter?


5. The ONLY changes I am considering to the recipe (and it's either-or, not both) would be replacing some of the raisins with dried cherries, OR adding a tsp per gallon of fresh grated ginger. Anyone forsee a problem, or have experience with, either one?
(Well, and I'm contemplating using the zest-and-peeled-orange to eliminate the pith... but I'm debating... I don't want to stray too far from the idiot-proofness of the original recipe).

Hoping to get this started by mid-september (I'm dead broke right now, as I work for a school and get no paychecks during the summer).

Thanks in advance for any feedback, even if it starts with "Paul, you idiot...."

Paul F.
 
I don't know about you but I can buy 18 liters of Reverse Osmosis water from the grocery store for under $5. The raisins aren't there for flavouring, they are yeast nutrient, I don't know the science behind it but I would stick with the raisins. When I made my JAOM about a month ago I looked for the oranges with the thinnest skins I could find instead of those ones, usually navels, with the pith that's like a 1/4 of an inch thick. A lot of the posters also say that because the JAOM is left so sweet you need the bitterness of the pith to counterbalance that so it isn't too sickeningly sweet but it does take a little time to mellow out. I guess I'll find out around Xmas.
 
It's entirely possible that I'm over-thinking the water issue :)

I've gathered the importance of the raisins, but am curious if replacing SOME of them with dried cherries would provide the same nutrients, or would it be wiser to add some cherries rather than replacing some of the raisins?

Thank you for your reply!

Lungus said:
I don't know about you but I can buy 18 liters of Reverse Osmosis water from the grocery store for under $5. The raisins aren't there for flavouring, they are yeast nutrient, I don't know the science behind it but I would stick with the raisins. When I made my JAOM about a month ago I looked for the oranges with the thinnest skins I could find instead of those ones, usually navels, with the pith that's like a 1/4 of an inch thick. A lot of the posters also say that because the JAOM is left so sweet you need the bitterness of the pith to counterbalance that so it isn't too sickeningly sweet but it does take a little time to mellow out. I guess I'll find out around Xmas.
Click to expand...
 
First month down, clearing nicely.. Smells very sweet cant wait to bottle, then sit some more.. Will sample along the way of course
 
Is it normal for the oranges to disintegrate when you make contact with them? I went to bottle once mine cleared and a huge sediment cloud game off of the oranges one my racking cane touched them. It was so thick I put it into another carboy. I admit I have not read this entire thread but I didn't see anyone else mentioning it. The orange pith taste is also overwhelming (I assume the cloud did that) it's like orange rind tea, not honey with orange flavor.
 
Paul_F said:
I have now read every single one of the 1445 posts in this thread... (there oughta be a prize!). :drunk:

First off, I swear I won't ask if I can use a different yeast! :D

Quick background on me; I have ZERO completed brewing experience unless you count starting a 4 gallon batch of mead with an ex-girlfriend in the late '90's - we broke up and she got the batch, the carboys, the books, the notes - everything. I got off easy though, her next boyfriend is stuck with her for 18 years plus college expenses.
Oh, and I've done some home-brewed fermented soda... I make a decent lemon-ginger soda with bread yeast.

So I'm thinking about making a batch of JAOM.. or two... to take to a family reunion next June. I have a couple questions and want to get some clarity on some other steps.

1. I live in a cool climate all year round, where my inside temps are unlikely to get over 60-64 degrees between now and June - how big an issue is this going to be for the bread-yeast? I keep a sourdough starter, and know that the yeasts in there operate slower.. is it just a matter of being in the fermenter longer? Or should I devise a clever warming pad?

2. I get that racking after two months (or when clear - which is the most important measure, I've gathered) is not necessary - but for those of us a little klutzy with a siphon, is there any harm in racking to a clean bucket, allowing to settle for a few days, then racking into bottles?

3. I'm not clear on whether it's "better" to leave it in the fermenter longer, vs bottling once clear for flavor development. Will it mature better left in the fermenter, or bottled?

4. My water is moderately chlorinated - will boiling it to drive off the chlorine be sufficient, or should I just spend a couple buck on a few gallons of bottled water. Come to think of it, does it even matter?

5. The ONLY changes I am considering to the recipe (and it's either-or, not both) would be replacing some of the raisins with dried cherries, OR adding a tsp per gallon of fresh grated ginger. Anyone forsee a problem, or have experience with, either one?
(Well, and I'm contemplating using the zest-and-peeled-orange to eliminate the pith... but I'm debating... I don't want to stray too far from the idiot-proofness of the original recipe).

Hoping to get this started by mid-september (I'm dead broke right now, as I work for a school and get no paychecks during the summer).

Thanks in advance for any feedback, even if it starts with "Paul, you idiot...."

Paul F.
Click to expand...

Paul, you idiot... I couldn't resist! Hope this clears things up for you.

1. The yeast might not attenuate as fully at those temps. Keep above your fridge and you should hit the 70* mark without a pad.

2. Oxidation is always a hazard when racking. If you rack off the lees then be sure you don't splash and mix up the liquid too much. Personally I am going to use a bright tank(what you proposed) on my current batch since I also suck at racking apparently.

3. It is rare but yeast can autolyze when they die lending meaty flavors to fermented beverages. Bottle age so you can make more jaom in your fermenters :)

4. If your water is suspect then get the bottled stuff. It adds very little cost in comparison to all the time lost on a bad batch.

5. I highly recommend your first batch is to the letter of the original. Futz with it once you have an idea of what it SHOULD taste like. I have completely omitted the orange on my current batch in favor of culinary lavender. It could be an epic fail but at least I will know why instead of wondering if the recipe is shoddy.
 
Tom128 said:
Is it normal for the oranges to disintegrate when you make contact with them? I went to bottle once mine cleared and a huge sediment cloud game off of the oranges one my racking cane touched them. It was so thick I put it into another carboy. I admit I have not read this entire thread but I didn't see anyone else mentioning it. The orange pith taste is also overwhelming (I assume the cloud did that) it's like orange rind tea, not honey with orange flavor.
Click to expand...

Did they disintegrate or did yeast come flying off them at mach 5? My oranges were covered in yeast the first time and it made bottling very difficult.
 
I made my first batch way back in January. I followed the recipe 95% as written. My only change was that I peeled the orange and used the strips of zest, and I only added the juice, not the pulp or pith. I also racked it after about 2 months or so. Let it sit another month until fully clear and then I bottled it. I waited until it was 6 months from brewday to open a bottle, and it was pretty good. Better than I expected. I will make it again, bread yeast and all.
 
kaconga said:
Paul, you idiot... I couldn't resist! Hope this clears things up for you.

1. The yeast might not attenuate as fully at those temps. Keep above your fridge and you should hit the 70* mark without a pad.

2. Oxidation is always a hazard when racking. If you rack off the lees then be sure you don't splash and mix up the liquid too much. Personally I am going to use a bright tank(what you proposed) on my current batch since I also suck at racking apparently.

3. It is rare but yeast can autolyze when they die lending meaty flavors to fermented beverages. Bottle age so you can make more jaom in your fermenters :)

4. If your water is suspect then get the bottled stuff. It adds very little cost in comparison to all the time lost on a bad batch.

5. I highly recommend your first batch is to the letter of the original. Futz with it once you have an idea of what it SHOULD taste like. I have completely omitted the orange on my current batch in favor of culinary lavender. It could be an epic fail but at least I will know why instead of wondering if the recipe is shoddy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips!

My fridge in inconveniently built in under a cabinet that's too small to put a fermenter in... but knowing that it needs to be warmer than my ambient temp during the ferment cycle, I can figure something out.

I do plan to try very hard to stay with the original recipe... it's just that I have a hard time not messing with things, and I have this time pressure... If I really do want to have a batch ready for that reunion, I only have time for one try....and I do so like the idea of some dried cherries in the mix.
Hmm.. the obvious answer is to make TWO batches at the same time... :)

I've concluded that I was over-thinking the water... checked on the price of bottled, and even on my sparse budget, I think I can spring for an extra $4.

Found a place to get 1 gallon glass jugs... already filled with a nasty red liquid sometimes used for drinking, or making boeuf Bourguignonne.

Once I get a paycheck or two under my belt, I'll start buying the parts!
 
Never forget that the nasty red liquid, when placed in a punch bowl and adulterated with white sugar and orange slices, is palatable.
 
True enough, but I won't have anything to put it in once I steal it's bottles! :)
I'm sure I'll figure something out...
 
Well, then I definitely won't have the coordination to be pouring mead fixin's into the bottles.
I'm sure I can figure it out, but it's gonna take some thought... and some refreshments, of course. So it might be a self-solving problem!
You're a genius!
 
Just did my first batch of this yesterday, using honey from my parents' farm in Idaho. Assuming it turns out well, I will be doing it more cause it's dead easy.

I may have over pitched, not reading the label on the Fleischmann's package correctly. One of those little pouches is 2 1/2 tsp, but I put in the whole thing. Overnight, the airlock filled with krausen, clogged, and the pressure build up pushed out the stopper. Kind of messy but not terrible.

Looking forward to how this turns out.
 
blackbeltbrewer said:
Just did my first batch of this yesterday, using honey from my parents' farm in Idaho. Assuming it turns out well, I will be doing it more cause it's dead easy.

I may have over pitched, not reading the label on the Fleischmann's package correctly. One of those little pouches is 2 1/2 tsp, but I put in the whole thing. Overnight, the airlock filled with krausen, clogged, and the pressure build up pushed out the stopper. Kind of messy but not terrible.

Looking forward to how this turns out.
Click to expand...

Where in Idaho is the farm?
 
went to bottle the blueberry vanilla last night and 2 bottles in my corker broke. I've bottled a total 10 bottles with it so I was a little miffed. anyway it sure is pretty and I liked the flavor directly out of the carboy much more than the original recipe. I will make this one again

I still have an apple cinnamon to bottle but it will have to wait until I get more bottles and a new corker

any suggestions for a corker

I just broke this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064OFYIY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

1175244_10201136396745400_1199170832_n.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DwaynieAD said:
went to bottle the blueberry vanilla last night and 2 bottles in my corker broke. I've bottled a total 10 bottles with it so I was a little miffed. anyway it sure is pretty and I liked the flavor directly out of the carboy much more than the original recipe. I will make this one again

I still have an apple cinnamon to bottle but it will have to wait until I get more bottles and a new corker

any suggestions for a corker

I just broke this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064OFYIY/ref=cm_cr_rev_prod_title
Click to expand...

I used one similar to this. If I get serious about wine/mead I plan to buy it. I borrowed it from my father in law

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/portuguese-floor-corker.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Subscribe! I made something like this a few years ago when I first started brewing, I found it somewhere else and it wasn't called JAOM. It was just honey, water, orange, raisins and bakers yeast, no spices. It was so tasty I didn't even bother bottling it, I poured it straight from the jug to the glass.
 
Will of storm the castle got me started in the hobby as well. Some of his techniques might be a little antiquated, but he has a passion for the hobby (and mead) and has been nothing but cool in my interactions with him.
 
roastquake said:
Subscribe! I made something like this a few years ago when I first started brewing, I found it somewhere else and it wasn't called JAOM. It was just honey, water, orange, raisins and bakers yeast, no spices. It was so tasty I didn't even bother bottling it, I poured it straight from the jug to the glass.
Click to expand...

That's the way I'm making mine. SWMBO not fond of cinnamon or clove so I figured we could do without. Hope we like it as much as you did!
 
I was just getting things ready to start my very first batch of Mead, and realized the Cinnamon stick I have is "Ceylon" Cinnamon, "Cinnamomum verum, AKA "true cinnamon", and not the usually found "Cinnamomum cassia" that is in 99.9% of stores labeled "Cinnamon"...

Once again, I may be dramatically over-thinking this, but I have a couple hours while the honey warms and I get everything sanitized before I won't be able to stand it any more, and I pitch 'em in...
So if there is an overwhelming reason why using "true" Cinnamon sticks in JOAM is a bad idea, please- someone speak up! Otherwise, two 5lb containers of Kirkland/Costco honey and some Valencia oranges will have given their lives for naught! :D


Paul F.
 
I might have screwed this up already!
The Cinnamon issue is now moot... I used the "Ceylon Cinnamon" sticks.

I think I may have erred in my scaling up...

Here was my goal and how I think I messed up.
I had scaled it for a 2.5 gallon batch in a 3 gallon glass carboy.
8.75 lbs honey
2.5 Oranges (I rounded to 3 to account for that my Valencia oranges were a little on the small side, rather than the "Large" the recipe calls for).
62.5 Raisins (rounded to 63... and yes, I'm anal enough that I counted them out...).
2.5 Cinnamon sticks (I used three, as the Ceylon Cinnamon sticks are slightly shorter than the "regular" ones at the store. And yes, I measured them...)
2 of the smallest cloves in the jar. And yes, I emptied the jar of cloves and found the two smallest ones.

Here's where I erred;
I put 1 gallon of bottled water in the carboy.
I dissolved the 8.75 lbs of honey in 1 gallon of water (warming on the stove-top to "can't hold your finger in it hot" but not "OH GOD! MY FINGER! OW!" hot. )
I poured that in the carboy... expecting to top it off with an additional 1/2 gallon of water.
Now, my 3 gallon carboy is up to the last, uh, ridge, on the shoulder....
I didn't account for the volume of the honey in the "2.5 gallon" batch!

So the question is, should I add another 1-3/4 lbs of honey, half an orange, and another third of a Cinnamon stick?
Or am I over-thinking this again?

I pitched the yeast after it had cooled to "just warm".... about the temperature I'd proof a loaf of bread at, so I figure I'm good on that score.

This was supposed to be the "easy" recipe.... LOL... I'll bet it IS easy if you can read!

Even constructive ridicule welcomed!
Paul F.



PS I didn't mention that in addition to erring in measurement, I committed a cardinal sin: I altered the recipe with the addition of 1.3 oz of sliced ginger root. I know - Paul Bad... Paul can't stand not changing recipe's... It Paul's lot in life.
 
Oh, and because it seems to be tradition;
(and yes, it's in the bathroom... I recently downsized from sharing a 2800 sq ft house, to a 300 sq ft apartment - it's the only unoccupied spot in the place!)

MostlyJAOM.jpg
 
I'm drinking my first bottle of JAOM and its only been bottled 1 month and it is fantastic better than any store bought I've ever had, thank you creator!
 
Heres mine I made today along with 2 other small batches of other honey- mead both used with D47, which are in a cooler area at the moment.

0902031447.jpg
 
Started my second batch on Friday and paid attention to the volumes this time. Use caution if you top off with more must after a few day's; my brewing sense tingled and told me to install a blow off tube and I am dang glad I did.
 
Paul_F said:
I might have screwed this up already!
The Cinnamon issue is now moot... I used the "Ceylon Cinnamon" sticks.

I think I may have erred in my scaling up...

This was supposed to be the "easy" recipe.... LOL... I'll bet it IS easy if you can read!

Even constructive ridicule welcomed!
Paul F.


Paul. Relax...
Not sure if someone has off lined you about your issue yet. But...

It will turn as mead and you will gulp it down with glee even if you're an orange and a stick shy. It will be great and it will be your own. Next time you won't even care about a recipe. I guarantee.
Click to expand...
 
Pollock...
I'm starting to relax now that it's bubbling away... :)
Probably should have started this hobby without a "deadline" where I wanted to give away some mead. I think it would have been better for my nervous nature.

I did end up adding another 1-3/4 lbs of honey...

Now I can read the forum and plan my NEXT batch. :D

Paul F.
 
Has anyone tried using Craisins?

How important are the cinnamon sticks? I have everything I need but I dont have any cinnamon sticks at home and I don't feel like making a trip to my homebrew store.
 
jstampler said:
Has anyone tried using Craisins?

How important are the cinnamon sticks? I have everything I need but I dont have any cinnamon sticks at home and I don't feel like making a trip to my homebrew store.
Click to expand...

I've got a batch going now with Craisins in it but it's still about a month out from being ready. So... I'm no help here on how the Craisins work out, will report back once it's done!
 
You don't need to get the cinnamon sticks at a homebrew store. Any grocery store should have them at or near the spice isle :)
 
image-3942468583.jpg

I just finished my first ever Mead. It was simple but fun to make.

I completely forgot to take a reading. I followed the recipe but used Wyeast sweet mead yeast. Does anyone know roughly what the SG with that yeast is?
 
So I pitched 2 days ago and nothing happened. I had some concern with the yeast I used because I had left it out for over 24 hours a few weeks ago. It's in one of the activation packages and it was already expanded by the time I got it in the fridge.

Anyway, I just repitched last night using Lalvin EC-1118 which I know is much more dry than the Sweet Mead yeast. Is this going to be okay or is it going to have too much bite and be way too dry for a Mead?
 

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