Help with exhaust fan for electric indoor brewing

Hi guys,

I'm looking for some ideas for ventilation for my basement electric brewery. I have a window in my brewing area about two feet from the boil kettle. Some say a fan in the window exhausting air and a second fan blowing condensate from the boil towards it is plenty. Two box fans = $30.

Others say an inline fan with at least 300 cfm is needed. Like the following.

http://www.businesslights.com/vortex-inch-449-cfm-high-power-inline-fan-p-1444.html

What are your experiences?

How would I install the inline fan? Do I then have to purchase a separate hood? Or just put up some ducting and angle the fan down towards my boil?

I'm guessing I'll just be venting out of the nearby window no matter which solution I'm going with.

Ideas and experiences with this are greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

get a nice size squirrel cage fan from an old furnce or the like and some 3/4 inch plywood and build a vent hood over the area , venting out the window

A vent hood will likely work very well and better than just a basic window fan. But all I ever do is use a small fan in an adjacent window. I do run it for 20 - 30 minutes after a brew session to "air out" the basement and it seems to work just fine.

I would think a box fan in the window would be adequate. Likely you will need to run it for a while after brewing since you are not directly capturing the steam.

The squirrel fan looks like a good solution, but pricey. Anyone install the vortex fan I linked to above? I'm wondering how to do it. Seems like a lot of cfm for the money.

harbor frieght has this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-portable-ventilator-97762.html

You'd move plenty of air with it.

I've sometimes use a Blue Blower like this one:

http://erisautomotivetools.com/BB3000.aspx

These are squirrel cage type blowers. They are compact, yet move a huge amount of air.

PintOfBitter said:

harbor frieght has this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-portable-ventilator-97762.html

You'd move plenty of air with it.

Click to expand...

1500 CFM! But how can I set this up with a vent hood made of plywood? Sorry, not having the fan here makes it hard to see how it can be done. Or do you just use it blowing out the window?

Thanks.

Catt22 said:

I've sometimes use a Blue Blower like this one:

http://erisautomotivetools.com/BB3000.aspx

These are squirrel cage type blowers. They are compact, yet move a huge amount of air.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions guys. So now I've moved from no options to having trouble deciding on which cool option to choose.

Love this site. I suppose I could mount the blue box in a hood of plywood and vent out window. Would it work to have the fan "inline" and not mounted above the hood?

Make a pressure fit piece of rigid foam board to fit into the window frame, cut an 8" hole in it and press fit this 8" duct fan from Home Depot... under $40.



Put an elbow on there to get it in the direction of your kettle and attach 8" aluminum flex duct.



Make a circle out of the foam board to fit over your kettle, put an 8" hole in it and put the duct in there. No hood needed, just need to make that lid sit above the kettle by about an inch so you don't pull a hard vacuum.

If you wanted to get extra fancy, you could also run a 4" piece of flex between the window and NEAR the kettle with no fan so it can draw fresh air in. Otherwise you'll be pulling warm air out from the rest of the basement and you could create a negative pressure which is really bad if you have a low efficiency furnace down there.

You may find 8" fan at full speed is more than you need. If that's the case, install a fan speed control "dimmer".

Dgonza9 said:

1500 CFM! But how can I set this up with a vent hood made of plywood? Sorry, not having the fan here makes it hard to see how it can be done. Or do you just use it blowing out the window?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I think I'm going to try this one from harbor freight. I'll start by setting it up in the window to move air and see if the does the job. Maybe I'll mount a box fan on a stand to blow moisture towards the blower in the window.

If that doesn't get 'er done I'll look into building a hood and mounting the fan with the hood and direct venting.

Any suggestions on this plan?

Bobby, you suggest a piece of foam that sits almost like a lid over the kettle?

I think I see what you're saying. But what about styrofoam falling to wort? I haven't handled rigid foam in a while but I seem to recall it flaking every time I handled it. Is this a concern when moving that lid to add hops, etc?

Interesting idea, do I understand it correctly? I'll bet it would work like gangbusters.

I'll think about the options a while.

Many thanks, Bobby. You are very clever.

Dgonza9 said:

1500 CFM! But how can I set this up with a vent hood made of plywood? Sorry, not having the fan here makes it hard to see how it can be done. Or do you just use it blowing out the window?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Usually blowing it out a window will be sufficient. The goal is to exhaust steam/moisture generated when boiling. When using gas burners, you want to insure that there is sufficient oxygen supplied to the burner in order to minimize any carbon monoxide production. Air blown out through a window will be replaced by air drawn in from other parts of the house. Gas burners, when properly adjusted with the right air/fuel mixture generally burn quite cleanly. When they are starved for oxygen, they can generate copious amounts of carbon monoxide and this can be extremely dangerous. I have a good digital CO detector in my brewing area. I like that it has a digital readout that I can glance at occasionally to see if any CO is accumulating. It will register a reading when even very low levels of CO are present and long before the alarm goes off. IOW, most of the time it's not the gas burner that's a hazard so much as it is oxygen depletion. I brew in my garage, so I can simply open the garage door and use a cheap box fan for adequate ventilation. A CO detector is cheap insurance and it could possibly save your life. It's a must have IMO, when brewing with gas indoors.

Yeah, I don't think I mentioned it but I'm going electric down there. Just finished my 2nd heat stick last night. I think they're pretty impressive so far, though I haven't done a full boil or a brew day down there yet.

I just put in 4 20 amp circuits. Wired each to a box with a switch controlling an outlet. That way I can switch them on and off anytime. GFCI, of course. The boxes are mounted in the ceiling, except one for the pump I put on the wall. I did it in black so it'll be obvious which switch is the pump ( in case of homebrew consumption while brewing!) Now I'm thinking I might have just done a giant control panel.

Electrical was so much fun at first, then it got to be a chore. I'm nearing the end of my bar build and unfortunately I'm fighting a bit of a malaise. Can be tough to get stuff finished. Honestly, the drywall took the wind right out of my sails.

Thanks for the advice.

The rigid foam board I was thinking of was the foil faced stuff. I was just shooting from the hip anyway. You can use plywood or a piece of lexan for the window opening and whatever for the kettle, lexan, aluminum sheet, an old lid...

Bobby_M said:

Make a pressure fit piece of rigid foam board to fit into the window frame, cut an 8" hole in it and press fit this 8" duct fan from Home Depot... under $40.

Click to expand...

Just a word on these inline fans (Sorry Bobby)
They are absolutely crap. I have that exact fan. I bought it to exhaust smoke from my game room/bar.

Just for testing I put a 4' section of rigid pipe on it, and it didn't have enough pressure to open the louvers on the clothes dryer vent!
Don't waste the $$.

After a lot of research I decided I had no choice but to drop the coin on a good inline blower.

- Another option -
Check CL for a stove hood. They gotta be out there, and for $20 you could have a good blower, and a light!

I might try this, kind of a middle ground between the expensive vortex inline fan and the el cheapo home depot one.

http://www.businesslights.com/valueline-inch-435-cfm-centrifugal-inline-fan-p-2045.html

Thanks for jumping in to tell me that fan was crapola. I was practically on my way to homedepot.

Good to know. At least HD has a liberal return policy. You can give it a shot and if it doesn't do what you want, return it. Did you get the 8" or was it a 4"? Assuming you hooked dryer louver I'd guess 4".

Or maybe this. I think it's a recognizable brand.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...e7d7f0d&itemid=170511420383&ff4=263602_263622

Good point. At that price point it's probably worth a shot.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AIR-BLOWER-FAN-...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f01a5bec4

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dayton-9C956-Bl...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19be0299c1

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydrofarm-Inc-4...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2308c14833

http://cgi.ebay.com/ECOFIT-Squirrel...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53df807640

The squirrel cage blowers are pretty loud but you could mount them to the outside of your window board to avoid the annoyance at least a bit.

Bobby_M said:

Good to know. At least HD has a liberal return policy. You can give it a shot and if it doesn't do what you want, return it. Did you get the 8" or was it a 4"? Assuming you hooked dryer louver I'd guess 4".

Click to expand...

I reduced it to 4", I have the 6" version that I was going to hook up to a ceiling vent with flexible insulated duct.
YMMV, but for me, it was a deal breaker when it wouldn't open a 4" louver after 4' of pipe. I never even installed it in the 20' run from the vent to outside. I think the clearance between the blades and the pipe is too great.

Those other links look good though. The hydroponics guys are all over the internet selling very good inline blowers - Because growing roses inside your house must stink

I think I need a 120v fan, though. My circuit box is full and I had trouble finding 240v gfci breakers or 240 gfci receptacles. I'd have to swap out some existing breakers with tandems, which wouldn't be that hard, but the receptacles and wiring I'm not totally sure of.

Anyone done it? Does a 240v receptacle just have two hot receptacle wires and two slots on the receptacle? What about the neutral? Does it have two neutrals or a thicker neutral wire of some kind?

Looks like I'm considering it. Crap.

Dgonza9 said:

I think I need a 120v fan, though. My circuit box is full and I had trouble finding 240v gfci breakers or 240 gfci receptacles. I'd have to swap out some existing breakers with tandems, which wouldn't be that hard, but the receptacles and wiring I'm not totally sure of.

Anyone done it? Does a 240v receptacle just have two hot receptacle wires and two slots on the receptacle? What about the neutral? Does it have two neutrals or a thicker neutral wire of some kind?

Looks like I'm considering it. Crap.

Click to expand...

I'd definitely go with a 120v fan. All of them listed here so far (I think?) are 120v.

You won't find a 220 GFI receptacle - You have to install a GFI breaker, and they run upwards of $75 each.

A proper 220v circuit will have 3 or 4 wires.
Where 110v has (1) Hot, (1) Neutral, and (1) Ground
220v has (2) hots, (1) ground, and sometimes (1) neutral. You only need the neutral if you need to get 110v from your 220v feed - In a 220v system, if you measure voltage from Hot to Hot, you see 220v. If you measure from either Hot to Neutral, you see 110v (Nominal, of course)

If you have your heat sticks built, and they are 110v, and you have the power already, I'd forget all about 220v until you have cause to upgrade past 2000 watt elements.

The 3rd Ebay one on my list there looks most promising because it's got a nice mounting flange and is going cheap but who knows what the reserve is. Sorry, you're right, that last one is 240v.

And that one is gone.

What about this?

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-portable-ventilator-97762.html

Do you think I can create a setup like Bobby described with one of these? Just put the output thru some rigid foam board and rig up some flexible ducting to a lid with a hole in it? Maybe a bit of a shelf or stand near the window. My furnace is nearby and it already has a fresh air intake duct.


Maybe too much power for this application, though. I like the idea of a fan I can use for other applications down in the basement and this seems to deliver quite a bit of cfm.

What do you think?

Looks like reflectix insualtion has a temp limit of 180 degrees. If sitting on the apron above a boiling keggle, will this get any hotter than 180? Bobby, have you used this insulation in similar applications? I think I see this on the sides of BK keggles before. Probably won't get any hotter in a vent application.

Thoughts? Where do you usually buy this insulation?

I was thinking of the rigid insulation boards with foil on both sides. I got some of it at lowes a while back but the more I think of it, a scrap sheet metal "lid" might be better. I'd bet you'd evacuate quite a bit of steam just by adding a hook to the duct and putting the open end right over the pot. Moreso with a duct reducer/expander.

One final opinion and then I'll tinker with it and post pics once I have it set up. That harbor freight fan is an 8" inline fan, though portable. It says low speed evacuates 1400 CFM. Is that too much power for this application?


Thanks guys.

you may be able to tune it down with some sort of triac or something.

Dgonza9 said:

One final opinion and then I'll tinker with it and post pics once I have it set up. That harbor freight fan is an 8" inline fan, though portable. It says low speed evacuates 1400 CFM. Is that too much power for this application?


Thanks guys.

Click to expand...

the 1400 cfm rating is with the blower discharging to "free air"

as soon as you put vent piping or a louver downstream of the discharge, the cfm will drop. Im not an hvac guy, so i can't tell you how much, but i wouldn't be surprised to see it cut in half.

I really don't know if it's too much or not but I have a few ideas about how much you need in real life evacuation. Since we're not talking about evacuating combustion gasses and only removing steam, let's talk about how much steam we need to move. 1.5 gallons of water will boil off over 60 minutes (approx.) 1.5 gallons expands to 2550 gallons of steam or 340cuft over an hour. That's only 5.6 cuft of steam per minute. I think the practical requirement for airflow would be based on how precisely you only remove the air/steam from the kettle. If the intake is 2 feet above the kettle, you have to move a lot of air to ensure the steam gets out. If it's 2" above the kettle, a real 10 cfm net would probably be enough. I'm also not an HVAC guy so grain of salt and all those types of disclaimers.

Bobby_M said:

I really don't know if it's too much or not but I have a few ideas about how much you need in real life evacuation. Since we're not talking about evacuating combustion gasses and only removing steam, let's talk about how much steam we need to move. 1.5 gallons of water will boil off over 60 minutes (approx.) 1.5 gallons expands to 2550 gallons of steam or 340cuft over an hour. That's only 5.6 cuft of steam per minute. I think the practical requirement for airflow would be based on how precisely you only remove the air/steam from the kettle. If the intake is 2 feet above the kettle, you have to move a lot of air to ensure the steam gets out. If it's 2" above the kettle, a real 10 cfm net would probably be enough. I'm also not an HVAC guy so grain of salt and all those types of disclaimers.

Click to expand...

10cfm , thats way way way to slow, at that speed it would be just fast enuff for the steam to condence and drip back down , the volume of air has to be large and fast enough too keep the humidity in the air , and to keep the surfaces dry

My bathroom fart fan's rated at 116 cu/ft a minute it's not enough this is in a hazardous environment.

Thanks for all the opinions. There was a sale on the active air 8" inline fan

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/active-air-720-cfm-inline-duct-fan-p-2756.html

Looked like a great price and I wanted to be sure I had all the fan I needed, especially if I move to 10 gallon batches.

Another good option seemed to be this one... for anyone still looking.

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/suncourt-10-inch-inline-booster-fan-wpowercord-p-2304.html

I'm not sure exactly how I will duct it in. I like Bobby's idea of the lid with the duct attached, but since I'm doing heat sticks that will stick out of the keggle I'll need to do some planning.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll post some pics once the setup is done, hopefully next week.

Okay, I bought this fan:
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/active-air-720-cfm-inline-duct-fan-p-2756.html

I mounted it on the wall and I'm trying to attach rigid duct work to go over the pot. All I need is a 90 degree bend and an 8"-10" increaser. But duct tape doesn't stick well to the fan. It's got a ceramic coating. The foil tape works best, but over time it seems to slip off. I need to support the ducting from above, I suppose, but any other ideas? What type of tape works best?

I'm just trying to keep it simple. I don't think I can screw the ducting into the fan flange as the fan impeller is very tightly mounted behind the flange.

Thanks for the help. Maybe with some long nylon ties or pipe straps and the tape it'll work okay. Just hoping for something that looked a bit nicer than that.

Thanks.

I'd think you put the rigid duct over the short stub sticking out and add three screws evenly spaced around the circumference. Predrill a small hole of course.

Yeah, I was reluctant to drill holes as the intake side of the stub seemed perilously close to the fan impeller. But it worked out fine. Gotta get the kids to bed but I'll post pictures when I'm finished with it.

Thanks again, Bobby.

sure takes a long time to get your kids to bed! Mine goes down pretty fast, relatively speaking!!

~M~

Here it is! Kids finally are asleep. LOL.

Dgonza9 said:

Here it is! Kids finally are asleep. LOL.

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How well does this work for you?