Bell's Yeast Strain

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permo

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I was at the store the other day and picked up a six pack of two hearted ale, I read the packaging and it said unfiltered and unpastuerized......with no end product in mind I decided to harvest the yeast.

So now I have this bells yeast and I don't even know what kind of yeast strain I have my hands on? From tasting two hearted, it is obviously a very attenuative strain, but I think it has some fruity esters too...is it maybe a derrivative or mutation of dry english yeast?

Regardless, I was thinking about doing something like Imperial Two Hearted Ale..since I have the yeast and a pound of centennial.
 
You are pretty much right, I have heard that bells uses a strain similar to wlp002.

But then again this could be completely wrong since Bells says they use a proprietary strain. Regardless harvesting the yeast properly and growing up a large culture is the only way to produce a good clone from what I've seen. Also if you're going to harvest from the bottle you may want to harvest from bells amber instead due to two hearted being a bit higher abv which would leave the yeast stressed. Both beers use the exact same yeast.
 
002 isn't very attenuation, I would be surprised if they used something similar that in Two Hearted Ale.
 
Do you know if Bells uses the same strain in all of their beers? I'm in the process of culturing the yeast from a sixer of Bells Amber Ale for a clone (maybe slightly less sweet/slightly more hoppy).

I'm not sure how attenuative the yeast is or how fermentable the wort is for that beer, but the Amber Ale yeast definitely throws some esters.
 
Yeah you could be onto something about the lack of attenuation... Looks like no one really knows what the best commercial example is of their yeast strain but there is quite a bit of speculation in this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/anybody-confirmed-what-yeast-bells-brewery-uses-147408/

I am going to be having knee surgery soon so I cannot lift which means I cannot brew but in the mean time I plan on going off on a commercial beer/yeast culturing tangent. I am gonna definitely culture bells and also try and culture dfh strain from their shelter pale ale possibly. I would try rogue but it's a waste of time since pacman can be bought.
 
Do you know if Bells uses the same strain in all of their beers? I'm in the process of culturing the yeast from a sixer of Bells Amber Ale for a clone (maybe slightly less sweet/slightly more hoppy).

I'm not sure how attenuative the yeast is or how fermentable the wort is for that beer, but the Amber Ale yeast definitely throws some esters.

Many sources state that almost all of their ales use the same strain of yeast except for their larger beers such as expedition and third coast. The closest comparison that has been widely done is amber to two hearted and the general consensus is that these two beers use the exact same strain but are fermented at different temperatures.
 
According to a guy in this thread, Bell's uses 4 yeasts. That could jive with what is being said in the other thread, one normal ale yeast, one high gravity ale yeast, one lager yeast, and one brettanomyces.
 
I harvested from one bottle of Bell's Pale Ale. Stepped it up a few times. I only made two beers with it, first was a low grav Pale Ale and the second was a Two-Hearted 'inspired' ale that I made with the cake from the first brew. I have not tapped the Two-Hearted inspired beer yet. The Pale Ale was good but a little too dry/thin because I didn't know it would attenuate so well.

It is quite attenuative. It is also very cloudy/fluffy at room temp but cold-crashes crystal clear. Polished almost, and I didn't use any finings other than Irish Moss in the kettle. It was just short of amazing how cloudy it was at first and how clear it was when done.
 
Bells makes a beer with Brettanomyces? Which one?

Don't know, just going by what was said in the other thread. Many breweries play around with things like Brett, they just don't get bottled and released into normal distribution channels.
 
So we have a highly attenuative, slightly fruity(?), flocculent yeast strain? Sounds kind of like nottingham yeast to me.
 
I've heard that the closest thing to Bell's yeast is WLP051 / Wyeast 1272. Clean ale yeast but a little fruitier than WLP001. At least the people who've made clones have said that it comes the closest.

I have an Oberon clone sitting in primary right now with that yeast...don't know if I can get any actual Oberon to compare it to when mine is done, but I can post back and let people know if you want.
 
Sounds like a great yeast to have, I bet it would make a nice ESB with those fruity esters. I think I am just going to brew up a two hearted clone with it and see how it turns out.
 
Bells makes a beer with Brettanomyces? Which one?

They had a beer called "Sparkling Ale" that I saw at one bottle shop like, one time (I've never tried it:(). My friend used to live in K-zoo, and he said they brewed it as a limited release type deal. But I guess it was a belgian style brew. Other than that I don't know of any other brett beers from Bells.

Apparently the sparkling ale was killer, tho.
 
I've had the Sparkling Ale. I think it's a yearly release. It was decent, a bit sweet for my tastes, but I don't remember any Brett character in it.
 
Well, like I said, I've never had the sparkling ale. My friend said he thought they definitely used bugs in it, but I don't know.
 
The Bell's beers that use Brett are only served on tap in their eccentric cafe, primarily their "wild one". Their main production and bottling facility just outside of Kalamazoo doesn't touch brett, so if you get in a bottle they used ale or lager yeast. From what I understand, the majority of their beers use the same yeast at different ferment temperatures and that you would have the best luck trying to culture from their Oberon bottles since it is a fresh seasonal wheat beer with relatively limited aging.
 
I've got an Amber carbonating right now that I used cultured Bell's yeast in. I've heard many theories on what their yeast is, including mutated 1272, and mutated 001. That strain's used in almost every beer they make. I know two exceptions are the Winter White Ale, and Hell Hath No Fury... Ale. The HHNF actually uses WL500 and 550 blended in equal amounts. That was told to me in an email from Bell's.
 
Most commercial fermenters here in the US are tall and narrow. I don't know all the details, but a really significant result is that the hydrostatic pressure of all that liquid suppresses ester production to a great degree.
 
A buddy of mine sent me a slant from a bottle of 2 Hearted a while back and it has become my house yeast basically. It's a bit slow (maybe because I'm not fermenting in the mid 70s?) but has great attenuation and my buddy did a 14% beer with it.

I have a braggot going on some right now and will be dumping a RIS on it when it's done.
 
Most commercial fermenters here in the US are tall and narrow. I don't know all the details, but a really significant result is that the hydrostatic pressure of all that liquid suppresses ester production to a great degree.

That's pretty interesting. I wouldn't think they are tall enough to place the yeast under that much pressure. What is it, like 1 atm for every 10 meters or something?

And I wonder what the biochemical basis for that is?
 
That's pretty interesting. I wouldn't think they are tall enough to place the yeast under that much pressure. What is it, like 1 atm for every 10 meters or something?

And I wonder what the biochemical basis for that is?
Not trying to send you on a snipe hunt (it's a very long thread) but all this is discussed in Wortmonger's "Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique" thread. Thread has some links to online articles about it.
 
FWIW, When I emailed Bell's about cloning Oberon and 2 hearted, they told me they use a house strain, the same yeast in nearly every beer except the lagers and specialties like Winter Ale etc. He also told me if I couldn't get their yeast, use WLP001 Cal Ale. I'm 99% sure its proprietary.
 
Just an updated, but I have now stepped the dredges from my six pack of two hearted into two seperate 1 gallon starters. I am going to use one for a wheat ale, and another for a two hearted clone. I am then going to use one of the cakes for an arrogent bastard type beer.....

I am just harvesting too much yeast these days, chimay, pacman, bells, hoegaarden......it's just to easy. I have a feeling that the bells yeast is going to become my default strain. As I was stepping up the starters and the yeast colonies became larger and more healthy, they ravanously ate up the sugars in the starters. They are quite cloudy initially as stated above, but if floculates very well after it is done.
 
Just an updated, but I have now stepped the dredges from my six pack of two hearted into two seperate 1 gallon starters. I am going to use one for a wheat ale, and another for a two hearted clone. I am then going to use one of the cakes for an arrogent bastard type beer.....

I am just harvesting too much yeast these days, chimay, pacman, bells, hoegaarden......it's just to easy. I have a feeling that the bells yeast is going to become my default strain. As I was stepping up the starters and the yeast colonies became larger and more healthy, they ravanously ate up the sugars in the starters. They are quite cloudy initially as stated above, but if floculates very well after it is done.

I am thinking about doing my first stab at yeast harvesting to do a Bell's TH clone. I have no idea really what to do so could you give me some tips/instructions on what has worked for you? Also, should I get the initial yeast from Oberon or from THA since Oberon has lower ABV and it seems to be a consensus that they use the same yeast for both at the brewery....

Thanks
 
There is a sticky on how to harvest yeast and use it I think.

Basically you get a sanitized jar and make a starter in it, using the dredges from a couple of bottles. Then step it up from there until you get a pitching amount.

I've used bottled yeast before, but I've never successfully kept any yeast longer than a few weeks. Just never took the time to do it.

I'd recommend using the Pale Ale yeast instead of the Two-Hearted. I'm sure the 2H will work, because I've done it, but the Pale might offer a better product since it is lower ABV and the yeast is likely to have less stress on it. But it would be more fun to drink the 2H I know!

So basically sanitize a bottle and pry off. Pour the beer into glass, leaving a bit on the bottom, then pour this into your "starter". You can do a few times, either with a friend or over a few days. I think I used 2 bottles but it took a while to get the population up. Then just keep adding wort to build up the population. When it gets big enough, you can decant the slurry and throw out the wort (instructions on yeast washing thread).

Pitch your slurry into your beer.

Also, a stirplate helps out when making starters. Not necessary, but easier than swirling the starter a few times a day...
 
There is a sticky on how to harvest yeast and use it I think.

Basically you get a sanitized jar and make a starter in it, using the dredges from a couple of bottles. Then step it up from there until you get a pitching amount.

I've used bottled yeast before, but I've never successfully kept any yeast longer than a few weeks. Just never took the time to do it.

I'd recommend using the Pale Ale yeast instead of the Two-Hearted. I'm sure the 2H will work, because I've done it, but the Pale might offer a better product since it is lower ABV and the yeast is likely to have less stress on it. But it would be more fun to drink the 2H I know!

So basically sanitize a bottle and pry off. Pour the beer into glass, leaving a bit on the bottom, then pour this into your "starter". You can do a few times, either with a friend or over a few days. I think I used 2 bottles but it took a while to get the population up. Then just keep adding wort to build up the population. When it gets big enough, you can decant the slurry and throw out the wort (instructions on yeast washing thread).

Pitch your slurry into your beer.

Also, a stirplate helps out when making starters. Not necessary, but easier than swirling the starter a few times a day...


Thanks, say I used 3 bottles of the TH ale with a stir plate starter how long do you think it would take to build it up to pitching volume for a 5.5 gallon batch?
 
For me it took a couple of days to really get going. I'd guess you should be ok in about a week. I'm sure there are others who do this more often that could give you a better idea. I'd start with a small volume, like 1/4 liter and step it up, doubling twice.
 
How do you tell when you have enough? Just by eying the size of the cake on the bottom of the flask?
 
I have now brewed 3 beers with this yeast, full attenuation each time. I ferment for the first 3-4 days at about 67 degrees or until I notice the activity in the airlock starting to slow, I then give it another 3-4 days at about 74-75 degrees to finish up and dry out. The beers come out fantastic this way.

The yeast does have a slight fruit component too it, that I find really tasty. I just used it on a bitter that I will keg this weekend. I will let you know how that one turns out. But Mashing at 154, this bitter went from 1.044 to 1.010 with no problems, so it should be about perfect.
 
I have now brewed 3 beers with this yeast, full attenuation each time. I ferment for the first 3-4 days at about 67 degrees or until I notice the activity in the airlock starting to slow, I then give it another 3-4 days at about 74-75 degrees to finish up and dry out. The beers come out fantastic this way.

The yeast does have a slight fruit component too it, that I find really tasty. I just used it on a bitter that I will keg this weekend. I will let you know how that one turns out. But Mashing at 154, this bitter went from 1.044 to 1.010 with no problems, so it should be about perfect.

Can you explain your process of harvesting the yeast? Which beer did you harvest out of? How long and how many additions of how much wort did you add?
Thanks
 
There are numerous threads on this site regarding yeast harvesting and making starters. I do not have the time to elaborate on both of those topics in the context of this thread. use the search functionality of this site and you will find all the information that you need.
 
There are numerous threads on this site regarding yeast harvesting and making starters. I do not have the time to elaborate on both of those topics in the context of this thread. use the search functionality of this site and you will find all the information that you need.

Alright well can you at least tell me which Bell's beer worked best for your results and about how long it took to get them to the amount you needed and how many initial bottles you used?

Thanks
 
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