Best vacuum sealer for bulk hops?

Hey guys,

My local homebrew club is running a bulk hop buy order, and I've put my name in for several pounds of hops. When they arrive, I want to divide them up into 1 or 2 ounce packets, vacuum seal them, and store them in my freezer.

I've heard that some of the vacuum sealing products aren't actually completely oxygen-impermeable. Also, I don't want to waste any more of the sealing material than necessary. So what is the best product for accomplishing this?

I'm fairly certain the FoodSaver system is the right answer, but what model? And do I have to be careful about which roll of sealing plastic I buy to ensure I get the kind that is completely oxygen-impermeable? Or am I asking too much, and I'd have to go to some sort of mylar system to actually get a complete oxygen barrier?

What's the best vaccuum-sealing system for managing a personal bulk hop supply?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0044XDA3S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have this one and it has worked great. $70. I think there are other brands (not "Foodsaver") that do the same for less money. I hope someone else adds this info.

I use the 8" rolls of bags and cut to size.

When it comes to plastic bags, there is no 100% oxygen barrier. The thicker the ML of the bag, the harder it is for O2 to permeate it but it's never 100%. Glass is a better option and you can use anything from baby food jars (the kind with the inner rubber seal) to 4-8 oz. canning/jelly jars for storing long term. Add a grain or two of dry rice in the bottom to help keep moisture in check and an oxygen absorber and you're good to go for the freezer. There are also mylar vacuum sealers but some of them have issues with gripping the bottom of the sealer bag.

Whatever you use to seal them, if you're doing it for long term storage, use an oxygen absorber.

passedpawn said:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0044XDA3S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have this one and it has worked great. $70. I think there are other brands (not "Foodsaver") that do the same for less money. I hope someone else adds this info.

I use the 8" rolls of bags and cut to size.

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That is exactly what I use. Works great.

I use one of these attachments for my bulk coffee beans and hops. No expensive rolls and product doesn't get smooshed.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005TN7H/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thumbs up for the wide mouth jar sealer. So convenient to be able to seal a mason jar, open it, use some hops, then re-vacuum it sealed again. I use masking tape with sharpie to label what's in the jar, when I last used it, and approximately how much is left.

Thanks for the responses, guys. I just ordered the FoodSaver V2244 off Amazon, with a 3-pack of the 8" x 20-foot rolls. I'm hoping that will let me seal up small amounts of hops (1-2 oz) without wasting too much of the roll.

Interestingly, FoodSaver's website claims their bags are oxygen-impermeable:

"Channels and multi-ply construction blocks moisture and oxygen [...]"

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Are they making unsubstantiated boasts, or can I actually expect a little oxygen-protection from these bags?

negativereaction said:

Thumbs up for the wide mouth jar sealer. So convenient to be able to seal a mason jar, open it, use some hops, then re-vacuum it sealed again. I use masking tape with sharpie to label what's in the jar, when I last used it, and approximately how much is left.

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But you can't draw the O2 out of the bottle, right? Is this much better than just putting the hops in a jar and putting the top on, and just skipping the vacuum altogether?

I'm not being argumentative, I truly wonder if there is much of a difference. At least the bags collapse and remove the air space.

passedpawn said:

But you can't draw the O2 out of the bottle, right? Is this much better than just putting the hops in a jar and putting the top on, and just skipping the vacuum altogether?

I'm not being argumentative, I truly wonder if there is much of a difference. At least the bags collapse and remove the air space.

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It is designed to pull a vacuum on the jar, removing O2 from it. The jar doesn't collapse like a bag does but it's still under vacuum. I don't have one of these but it looks like a good system to me.

passedpawn said:

But you can't draw the O2 out of the bottle, right? Is this much better than just putting the hops in a jar and putting the top on, and just skipping the vacuum altogether?

I'm not being argumentative, I truly wonder if there is much of a difference. At least the bags collapse and remove the air space.

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Don't have any science to quote, but it sure works for me.

Folks like Planters and Folgers seem satisfied with the concept. Mason jars hiss when opened just like pulling the foil off a can of nuts.

passedpawn said:

But you can't draw the O2 out of the bottle, right? Is this much better than just putting the hops in a jar and putting the top on, and just skipping the vacuum altogether?

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I've have the same thought. It's only a partial vacuum. You still leave plenty of O2 behind and it's able to contact your hops. The only way I can see this method being worthwhile is if you purge the jar with CO2 first.

AnOldUR said:

I've have the same thought. It's only a partial vacuum. You still leave plenty of O2 behind and it's able to contact your hops. The only way I can see this method being worthwhile is if you purge the jar with CO2 first.

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Well, it's not going to pull a perfect vacuum. After a little bit of googling (check this out) it looks like a Foodsaver can pull 24.2 inches of mercury as it's ultimate vacuum, which is 11.9 psi. One atmosphere is 14.7 psi, so this would leave behind 2.8 psi. So you're reducing the amount of oxygen in the jar by 81%, from 21% of the atmosphere in the jar down to 4%.

Looks like the "pump and seal" product might be a better way to go...

I learned a neat trick on HBT for mylar bags. The mylar bags are too smooth and collapse when you use them in the foodsaver. If you cut a little piece of a foodsaver roll (the rough side), you can tuck that in the opening of the mylar bag. The rough surface of the foodsaver roll holds it open for the vacuum to work and the piece of bag is just incorporated into the seal. Takes a little practice but it is slick

zachattack said:

Well, it's not going to pull a perfect vacuum. After a little bit of googling (check this out) it looks like a Foodsaver can pull 24.2 inches of mercury as it's ultimate vacuum, which is 11.9 psi. One atmosphere is 14.7 psi, so this would leave behind 2.8 psi. So you're reducing the amount of oxygen in the jar by 81%, from 21% of the atmosphere in the jar down to 4%.

Looks like the "pump and seal" product might be a better way to go...

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One wonders how this compares to 'vacuum packed' hops you receive when you buy a bag from a LHBS or whatever. I am no science guy, so I have no idea. Maybe 11.9 is considered normal/typical?

negativereaction said:

One wonders how this compares to 'vacuum packed' hops you receive when you buy a bag from a LHBS or whatever. I am no science guy, so I have no idea. Maybe 11.9 is considered normal/typical?

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I think most prepackaged hops are nitrogen flushed first, that is probably the only difference.

If a FoodSaver pulls a vaccuum at 11.9 on bags and the same 11.9 on jars assuming both are "impermeable," then the only difference is the extra air space in the jar which is also under vaccuum. So for long term storage bags sounds better but is it measurable?

SpentGrains said:

I think most prepackaged hops are nitrogen flushed first, that is probably the only difference.

If a FoodSaver pulls a vaccuum at 11.9 on bags and the same 11.9 on jars assuming both are "impermeable," then the only difference is the extra air space in the jar which is also under vaccuum. So for long term storage bags sounds better but is it measurable?

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That's what I was going to say. If it pulls -11.9 psi on a jar, you'll have 4% of the free volume of the jar be oxygen. And the free volume of the jar is going to be much higher than a collapsible bag, so the total amount of O2 available to react with (oxidize) the hops is going to be higher in a jar vs. bag. But is it measurable? Who knows. Certainly better than doing nothing.

zachattack said:

That's what I was going to say. If it pulls -11.9 psi on a jar, you'll have 4% of the free volume of the jar be oxygen. And the free volume of the jar is going to be much higher than a collapsible bag, so the total amount of O2 available to react with (oxidize) the hops is going to be higher in a jar vs. bag. But is it measurable? Who knows. Certainly better than doing nothing.

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I've been eyeballing that jar adapter, I might just have to pull the trigger to test this one out...

I use the jar lid adapter and a $20 hand operated brake line degasser. I can generally get around 25psi.

Edit: er, sorry, maybe that's 25 inches of mercury, too. I don't have it in front of me.

ong said:

Edit: er, sorry, maybe that's 25 inches of mercury, too. I don't have it in front of me.

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A 25 psi vacuum is impossible. So I'd assume it's inches of mercury

I bought a Rival Seal-a-Meal on sale at Target for around $35 a few years ago. Been using it regularly ever since. It takes all the same attachments as FoodSaver and costs a fraction of the price.

If you want to test if a jar sealer sucks out air, stick a marshmallow in there and see what happens.

A ton of food prepers have perfected this without the need to buy a foodsaver type machine. They are using Mylar bags which can be purchased in all sorts of sizes and are ideal for keeping oxygen out. They put food or in this case hops into the Mylar bag drop in an appropriately sized oxygen absorber then seal the Mylar with a cheap flat iron (yes the ones for hair). The oxygen absorber pulls the oxygen out and your all done.

Just something I have learned from reading online, tons of youtube videos on it if you want. Just one option without having to drop 70-150 on a foodsaver unless you want to.

Hope this helps
Mark

Bachhus said:

A ton of food prepers have perfected this without the need to buy a foodsaver type machine. They are using Mylar bags which can be purchased in all sorts of sizes and are ideal for keeping oxygen out. They put food or in this case hops into the Mylar bag drop in an appropriately sized oxygen absorber then seal the Mylar with a cheap flat iron (yes the ones for hair). The oxygen absorber pulls the oxygen out and your all done.

Just something I have learned from reading online, tons of youtube videos on it if you want. Just one option without having to drop 70-150 on a foodsaver unless you want to.

Hope this helps
Mark

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I was shocked by how well this works. I couldn't get a great vacuum from my food saver on some 1gal grain bags, so I dropped in an o2 absorber into each and sealed them (was included with the Mylar). Two weeks later most bags look like they were sealed by a vacuum sealer on steroids. My only advice is to try and push out extra air before you seal - it works better.

Sealing with the food saver was a pain so I bought a 16" impulse sealer off of eBay. I haven't tried it yet.

brewguyver said:

I was shocked by how well this works. I couldn't get a great vacuum from my food saver on some 1gal grain bags, so I dropped in an o2 absorber into each and sealed them (was included with the Mylar). Two weeks later most bags look like they were sealed by a vacuum sealer on steroids. My only advice is to try and push out extra air before you seal - it works better.

Sealing with the food saver was a pain so I bought a 16" impulse sealer off of eBay. I haven't tried it yet.

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Yeah, get serious, folks, THIS is the only way to go.