BLING BLING Electric HERMS Conversion

I thought now that POL has all that horsepower, he would heat his mash and sparge water in his BK first.

stevehaun said:

I thought now that POL has all that horsepower, he would heat his mash and sparge water in his BK first.

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I agree that using the E-keggle would be a bit faster in heating up all that Strike/Sparge water but as he's stated in the past, he uses that time to get all his other processes ready. I can foresee Pol streamlining his brewing in the future now that he has his Beast 2.0 in action

FWIW, my E-BK and E-HLT are wired exactly the same. Usually my strike water is ready far before I am. I'm measuring grains, salts, getting stuff together etc. I suppose If I got all that stuff ready the night before, it would help more...

stevehaun said:

POL:
Why did you put the thermocouple in the BK? Did you do it to measure your chilling with an IC?

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I have answered this before, but this thread is getting long.
#1 it allows me to see when I am about to a boil...
#2 I can easily monitor my chilling after he boil.
#3 I need it for the PID to run as previously noted.

I can't find a 30 amp GFCI breaker around here, so I have a 2 pole 50 amp GFCI, tell me if this would be an issue.


50 amp GFCI breaker -> 8/3 wire -> 50 amp range receptacle -> 4 wire 8 range cord -> panel

My panel is going to be all 30 amp stuff, the element is a 240V 5500 watt so it shouldn't pull more than 24 amps or so. The panel has a PID and 40A SSR, switch for both legs of the 240V (rated 30 amps).

My line of thought is that this is like a 20 amp breaker, 15 amp receptacle with a heater plugged in that pulls 12 amps.

You are right, your planned load should cause NO problem with the breaker or the 8AWG wire... but...

Here is the problem that I can see. You have a 50A breaker... and wire rated for 40A. If you are running a 50A breaker, you will want to run 6AWG wire to the outlet. Your breaker, is to protect your wire, but your 8AWG wire will theoretically only carry 40A, thus the breaker is not protecting your wire since it will take 50A to pop it.

I would run #6AWG wire to the outlet (pain in the butt I understand) so that the wire can handle as much as the breaker will.

My panel is all 30A max load too... so I ran a 30AGFCI with 10AWG (30A) wire to a range outlet that is rated for 50A (inconsequential) and then ran power to my rig on a #6AWG 50A range cord. My breaker will pop BEFORE my wires are overloaded... yours will pop AFTER the wire is overloaded.

If you cannot order a 30AGFCI, I would run the 6AWG to the outlet. I hope this helps? I had a horrible time finding a CutlerHammer 30AGFCI breaker, had to order in the end. Stay safe.

It is better to have BIG outlets and BIG wires and a smaller breaker. The breaker will cut power before you exceed the capacity of the wire. Not so good to have a BIG breaker and small wire and outlets... the outlets and wires will fail before the breaker ever gets a chance to do its job. If you go that route, you can just bypass a breaker and hard wire the outlet into the box, really.

What Pol said. You need #6 cu (copper) wire after the 50A breaker, or use a 40A breaker. You can't and shouldn't do what you're doing. The breaker is there to protect the wire. But in your setup it isn't.

If a problem happens in your panel and more than your expected current is drawn, the wire will overheat before the breaker pops. Not good. This is how fires start.

conpewter said:

The panel has ... switch for both legs of the 240V (rated 30 amps).

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What switch are you using? If you don't mind me asking...

Kal

The switch is similar to this one.

Leviton 3032-2I 30 Amp Double-Pole Toggle Switch Industrial - Ivory

On further review I think I'll return my 50 amp GFCI breaker and the #8 wire, range cord/outlet and instead I'll use a normal 30 amp breaker ($7) and wire an outlet right next to the panel, then use the cord Kal linked for getting power over to the brewstand. I can then wire that directly into the panel. This keeps the outlet away from my sink, and gives me GFI protection where my brewstand is. I'll just need to find an outlet that fits the cord I'm ordering, or replace the plug on the end.

That will make it much easier if I decide to move at some point, I'll just unplug and go, I take the expensive parts with me.

conpewter said:

The switch is similar to this one.

Leviton 3032-2I 30 Amp Double-Pole Toggle Switch Industrial - Ivory

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Got it! Thanks!

On further review I think I'll return my 50 amp GFCI breaker and the #8 wire, range cord/outlet and instead I'll use a normal 30 amp breaker ($7) and wire an outlet right next to the panel, then use the cord Kal linked for getting power over to the brewstand. I can then wire that directly into the panel. This keeps the outlet away from my sink, and gives me GFI protection where my brewstand is. I'll just need to find an outlet that fits the cord I'm ordering, or replace the plug on the end.

That will make it much easier if I decide to move at some point, I'll just unplug and go, I take the expensive parts with me.

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Exactly. This is the way I'm currently thinking of going too. Some other people I've talked to recommend doing everything this way as it's the "normal" way up to the 4-wire dryer outlet. This way it's extremely standard. All you've done is install a dryler outlet really.

After that point, anything you plug in that you build yourself (like the brew panel/etc) has bit more flexibility as far as following code goes since it's not part of the house itself.

Not to say that a 50A GFI protected line wired into the house isn't "code", it's just not very standard. You don't see them anywhere. While 30A dryer outlets are everywhere. Regular (non GFI) 30A 2-phase breakers are dirt cheap too.

Kal

Pretty awesome. I am finishing up my LP powered setup, and once I'm sure it's working right, will try and adapt this to managing my HLT and maybe the BK as well. Any reason why a bigger box and some extra parts wouldn't be adapted to manage both? I have two pumps and am still undecided if I'd want those on manual or automated yet, but I guess adding a few extra switched outlets would be simple enough. If you used thermowells in the vessels, maybe a person could just move the probes around, too.

I can get the basics here, but I really need to find an electrician to befriend so I don't cook myself.

kal said:

Not to say that a 50A GFI protected line wired into the house isn't "code", it's just not very standard. You don't see them anywhere

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What If my range is in a wet area?

My 50A receptacle is actually inside a kitchen cabinet in my basement. (It keeps kids, etc. away). I changed basement designs after installing... On the other side is an unfinished wall, so if I ever sell and it has to be inspected, I'll just remove it, probably. In fact, I'll remove all the 6/3 wire - I bought it when copper was really high and it cost me a ton!

I had to use 50A as I run both elements at the same time, I start the boil after collecting first runnings. HLT and BK both have 4500W elements.

Yall may be able to read more about my rig in a certain magazine before long. We will see how it pans out, they seem genuinely interested. Will keep ya posted so yall can get an issue if it happens.

so the power distribution block lets you bring 220v into your panel and the you can tap off the 110v that you need from there?

do you have to balance each line when you do that or how is it done?

Oh, I didnt balance anything. Basically each hot and the neutral are capable of being split into (4) lines in the dist. block. On items that required 120VAC I used one leg hot and one neutral... on the 240VAC circuit I used both hot legs. Though, on the 240VAC circuit remember to use a line from EACH hot leg that comes into the box, if you dont, it wont do anything at all.

I dont think I have posted on a concern that was brought up about temps of wiring IN the box and AT the element electrical connections.

The control box, after boiling for over an hour, the SSR running a 1 second duty cycle at 60% power... was cool as a cucumber. The internal temp was aorund 80F in a 75F garage. The heat sink itself was warm to the touch, but that was about it.

The heating element connections... since they are potted in about 1" of epoxy, I cannot read temp at the actual connection. I CAN however read the temp at the PVC coupling that encompasses the epoxy potting that surrounds the connections. During the boil the temperature in this region reached nearly 100F, in a 75F garage.

The control box wires are all THHN insulated, the element cord is a standard 10AWG Dryer Cord.

Pol,

Does the Camco 2963 Ripple 5500W element come with a 1" (?) nut for attaching it? If not, what did you use from where? I didn't think these sort of elements came with nuts (only the rubber washer) as they're typically screw-in replacements for hot water tanks no?

Kal

Right on Kal...

I have an equipment video coming up this evening on "Pols Brew Vids". It will explain things a little better and give video of the setup.

You need to purchase a SS 1" straight pipe thread nut from BARGAINFITTINGS.com. They are reasonable, and fast shippers. Make it finger tight and it seals like a dream!

Thanks Pol - crap. I completely missed that entry in your first post. Silly me.

(And one more thing I forgot to order). I hate having to wait around for 1 or 2 things to arrive before the entire thing can be assembled. Bound to happen since I have about 10,000 things needed for my setup!

Kal

It happens... I hear ya bro. I get SO impatient when I am buidling~

I've gotten most of my parts as well. I'm waiting on my 30 amp GFCI cord and the straight thread nuts as well (I wanted to find a cheaper/local version but no luck). At this point I have to determine where I'll mount the control box and then I can figure out the orientation of everything inside. My rig is stationary in the basement so I have more options of where to mount stuff.

I stopped into B3 this afternoon and happen to talk to a few of there guys about your E-Keggle. They seemed really interested in what you had done. Talked about the ultra low watt element... they seemed pretty suprised about that. Seems they are doing some testing themselves. Told them to goto HBT to check it out.

Lol... i forgot to mention the rough grind complaints.

Stile said:

I stopped into B3 this afternoon and happen to talk to a few of there guys about your E-Keggle. They seemed really interested in what you had done.

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I would really love to see an electric version of one of their sculptures. I know I can build it cheaper, but I do drool over theirs... Who knows I may win the lottery one day (if I played it...).

conpewter said:

I've gotten most of my parts as well. I'm waiting on my 30 amp GFCI cord and the straight thread nuts as well (I wanted to find a cheaper/local version but no luck). At this point I have to determine where I'll mount the control box and then I can figure out the orientation of everything inside. My rig is stationary in the basement so I have more options of where to mount stuff.

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Question....since you have went the 30A GFCI cord, what wire did you run to the outlet which it plugs into?

Stile said:

I stopped into B3 this afternoon and happen to talk to a few of there guys about your E-Keggle. They seemed really interested in what you had done. Talked about the ultra low watt element... they seemed pretty suprised about that. Seems they are doing some testing thereselves. Told them to goto HBT to check it out.

Lol... i forgot to mention the rough grind complaints.

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Stile, there ya go talking me up...

Yah, you shoulda said... what is wrong with your crush yall??

In my last order in the notes section I mentioned the crush being so coarse....

The Pol said:

Stile, there ya go talking me up...

Yah, you shoulda said... what is wrong with your crush yall??

In my last order in the notes section I mentioned the crush being so coarse....

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Hey, even those who think they have it all down can learn something new now and then. You should have seen the blank stares when i talked about the Ultra Low Density element. They were so quick to toss in the scorching of the wort thing...... deer in the headlights i tell you.

I went with the ultra-low density elements but everyone I know around my neck of the woods uses just low density elements (and have been doing so for years) and never any scorching. Frankly, I think it's just a myth. Maybe with high density elements but not any of the folded over low-density ones.

The ultra-low density (ripple/folded over) ones are of course a safe bet. 5500W size is perfect too for most people doing 10-20 gallons

Kal

I hope those B3 guys watch my upcoming vids... I can school them? HA

I am in Montreal right now, be back in Indy by noon tomorrow. I will get my "Equipment" vid up tomorrow!

I can keep 7.5 gallons at a rolling boil at 60% with the 5500W element.

Gregredic said:

Question....since you have went the 30A GFCI cord, what wire did you run to the outlet which it plugs into?

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I ran 10/4 to the 4 prong dryer outlet, the GFCI cord is a 4 prong dryer type plug so it should work just fine. I actually only have like 2' of wire from the panel to where my dryer is (Gas right now, but if I ever get an electric one I'm ready now!). The 17ft of cord will come in handy to get it over to the brew rig.

The Pol said:

You need to purchase a SS 1" straight pipe thread nut from BARGAINFITTINGS.com. They are reasonable, and fast shippers. Make it finger tight and it seals like a dream!

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Got my two 5500W RIPP elements from Ron's Home Hardware today (link). $17/each

Measuring the screw-in thread they seem to be 1.25" diameter, not 1" (when measuring the threads at the widest spot). I've already ordered the 1" SS locknuts from Bargain Fittings too.

Is your RIPPLE element a CAMCO #2963 Pol? It certainly looks identical to mine!

Kal

kal said:

Got my two 5500W RIPP elements from Ron's Home Hardware today (link). $17/each

Measuring the screw-in thread they seem to be 1.25" diameter, not 1" (when measuring the threads at the widest spot). I've already ordered the 1" SS locknuts from Bargain Fittings too.

Is your RIPPLE element a CAMCO #2963 Pol? It certainly looks identical to mine!

Kal

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Kal, you are fine.

The RIPP element will require a 1.25" hole in the side of the keggle, or pot, as stated in my build thread. It is 1.25" in diameter... yes. The nut you purchased is correct, they are not measured like you are thinking... you did good, no worries.

Thanks Pol! (One less thing I have to replace)

Kal

SUPER POL..... to the rescue.

I may have I missed it somewhere in this thread, but has anyone mentioned how long the RIPP 5500W elements are?

I am wondering how wide (ID) of a BK you need to run one of these elements.

Thanks.

cyberbackpacker said:

I may have I missed it somewhere in this thread, but has anyone mentioned how long the RIPP 5500W elements are?

I am wondering how wide (ID) of a BK you need to run one of these elements.

Thanks.

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13.75" from element tip to the rubber washer. Your kettle will have to be at least 14" wide inside at the installation point. I have two in front of me so I just measured.

Kal

Thanks for measuring it Kal... I am so wrapped up in making my "Equipment" video for my brew rig... I am not getting ANYTHING else done, really.

Kal thanks for the fast response!

The Pol said:

Kal, you are fine.

The RIPP element will require a 1.25" hole in the side of the keggle, or pot, as stated in my build thread. It is 1.25" in diameter... yes. The nut you purchased is correct, they are not measured like you are thinking... you did good, no worries.

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Actually I just installed a 4500w element into my Keggle tonight! In my opinion the best thing to use to punch the hole (if you can get your hand on it) is a knockout set that industrial electricians use to punch control panels for conduit openings. If you use the 1" knockout, it will make the perfect size hole because it is designed for 1" threaded conduit. I would be careful to correctly measure the thread diameter before you drill your hole because if it is too big there won't be much contact area for the gasket. I just used the gasket that came with the element and so far I am getting no leaks (keggle is sitting full overnight for test run).

Also don't forget that these elements use a 1" straight pipe thread. Most pipe threaded things you can find in home depot are of the tapered pipe thread so finding a nut for the inside can be difficult. I had to take a tapered fitting and run a 1" pipe thread tap through it to open it up a bit more so it would go further up the threads on the element.

Spine said:

Actually I just installed a 4500w element into my Keggle tonight! In my opinion the best thing to use to punch the hole (if you can get your hand on it) is a knockout set that industrial electricians use to punch control panels for conduit openings. If you use the 1" knockout, it will make the perfect size hole because it is designed for 1" threaded conduit. I would be careful to correctly measure the thread diameter before you drill your hole because if it is too big there won't be much contact area for the gasket. I just used the gasket that came with the element and so far I am getting no leaks (keggle is sitting full overnight for test run).

Also don't forget that these elements use a 1" straight pipe thread. Most pipe threaded things you can find in home depot are of the tapered pipe thread so finding a nut for the inside can be difficult. I had to take a tapered fitting and run a 1" pipe thread tap through it to open it up a bit more so it would go further up the threads on the element.

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Slug Buster (Greenlee)??

I just used the step drill... seemed to work fine. It seals fine...

My step bit burned up (Harbor freight...). I was easily able to drill the holes for dip tubes, but the 1.25" holes were too much for it. I'll be picking up a hole saw tomorrow for the other keg (Finished this one up with the dremel and grinder wheel)