Overpowering Alcohol Taste & Aroma

I brewed a Dogfish Head 60 Minute clone about 1.5 weeks ago and decided to take some gravity readings today. It was a 10 gallon batch split into two fermenters. One was pitched with Wyeast Ringwood Ale the other WLP041 Pacific Ale yeast. I made a 1 Liter starter for each three days prior to brewing. Both starters looked and smelled fine before pitching. The Ringwood batch fermented very slow with little airlock activity. It finished around a 1.016, which is what was expected. However, the Pacific Ale batch fermented vigorously for a week with a lot of airlock activity and finished low at 1.010. I was expecting it to attenuate as much as the Ringwood. The Ringwood sample I tasted was almost spot on. The hop character was perfect, but slightly more roasted than the original, probably due to a little too much Amber malt. When I opened the fermenter using the Pacific Ale yeast I instantly notice an overpowering alcohol aroma, almost like rubbing alcohol. I decided to give it a taste and the alcohol carried over into the flavor. It was like a burst of alcohol upfront followed by a hop bitterness. There was no malt character at all. WLP041 is suppose to be a good choice for English IPAs', I know something isn't right.

Most of the research into the solvent/alcohol like aromas and flavors results from temperature control. This can't be the case because the beer was split from the same wort and fermented side by side at 67°. Could the yeast have been bad? I didn't notice any overpowering alcohol aroma in my starter. It smelled like all of my previous starters. The only only thing I can think of is that the WLP041 batch had a lot of left over leaf hops that ended up in the fermenter. The wort came from the 2nd half of the kettle. However, I've had a number of other batches that were fermented with a bunch of leaf hops that ended up in the bucket and didn't have the overpowering alcohol taste/aroma.

Any input will be appreciated. I'm going to go ahead, dryhop, then bottle both hoping that the off flavor in the WLP041 batch will mellow out overtime. If not, I'm just going to give it to my buddy who will drink anything with alcohol in it.

"Most of the research into the solvent/alcohol like aromas and flavors results from temperature control. This can't be the case because the beer was split from the same wort and fermented side by side at 67°."

2 different yeasts will respond differently to the same temp. Also, the vigorously fermenting batch most certainly had a higher actual temperature than the slowly fermenting batch. The WL041 is supposed to be under 68 degrees. If the ambient temp was 67, the fermenter was likely in the low to mid 70's. The Ringwood has a range up to 74.

I understand that the temp may have been a few degrees high, but I've fermented with WLP041 at higher temps in the past without the Alcohol/Solvent flavors and aroma.

I'm thinking the hops in the fermenter might be the culprit. There is probably at least 3 ounces of leaf hops that got poured into the WLP041 batch from the boil kettle. I just don't understand how the excessive amount of hops would cause such an off flavor though.

Here in the tropics, I've brewed a lot at high temps and yes you certainly can get noticeable fusels, but it does not seem to be consistent. I suspect there are also other variables which effect the production of fusels. I've brewed some great beers with no temp control at all and then had problems with other brews when only a few degrees too high.

Ironically, before I was aware of the relationship between high temps and fusel production, I rarely had any problems and brewed fat-dumb-and-happy at high temps -- and made some great beers. Now that I am aware of it, I seem to have the problem more often. ?

Bad news is that there is no practical way at a home brew level to remove fusel alcohols...unless of course you plan to add a reflux still to your equipment list. However, I have had some success with blending to minimize the fusel taste -- discovered braggot last year this way.

Fusels are a problem with stressed yeast. You can stress healthy yeast with high temps. You can stress marginally healthy yeast with marginally high temps. So, if you don't have a proper pitch rate, or don't aerate well, or the yeast are old, or they weren't stored properly etc you can end up with more fusels in one batch than another.

Curtis2010 - if it is any consolation, you've probably trained yourself to be a better taster. That is the double-edged sword of tasting knowledge. The more you learn, the more you can pick out minor flaws that you would have just overlooked before.

Too much 02 can also cause fusils. This in combination with high temps and low pitching rate / yeast health. There are a lot of variables.

After reading everyone's replies, which I greatly appreciate, the problem seems to be related to the yeast and fermentation. While doing research I found that if a large quantity of the yeast remains in suspension too long this can result in the production of fusels. This seems to be the case since the beer finished low @ 1.010, when it was suppose to finish around 1.018. There was a large deposit of leaf hops sitting at the top of the fermenter when I pitched the yeast. I'm thinking that they absorbed some of the yeast and even blanketed some of it from floccutating. The hops are still floating on top of the beer as we speak, probably about an 1½" layer of them. Do you think that could be the likely culprit?

y2jrock60 said:

After reading everyone's replies, which I greatly appreciate, the problem seems to be related to the yeast and fermentation. While doing research I found that if a large quantity of the yeast remains in suspension too long this can result in the production of fusels. This seems to be the case since the beer finished low @ 1.010, when it was suppose to finish around 1.018. There was a large deposit of leaf hops sitting at the top of the fermenter when I pitched the yeast. I'm thinking that they absorbed some of the yeast and even blanketed some of it from floccutating. The hops are still floating on top of the beer as we speak, probably about an 1½" layer of them. Do you think that could be the likely culprit?

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After reading through the posts I think you've got it pretty good but also keep in mind that the beer is still quite young and a lot of what you are discovering now should dissipate with conditioning and carbonation. I say give it some time, let the yeast try and finish up cleaning house and things should get better.

What was your mash temp? Did the recipe include sugar in the boil?

Curious how this turned out. What were your experiences with WLP041 prior to this batch?

The batch using WLP041 became tainted and never mellowed out. I decided to dump ~2 gallons into a corny keg that had a little black IPA left in it. I was hoping the dark beer would take away some of the stringent flavor, but it didn't work at all. I ended up dumping it. The batch with the Ringwood Ale yeast turned out amazing though.

I did decided to give WLP041 another go. I'm not sure if my first go around with the yeast was due to bad yeast or just contamination. I made an American brown ale where I split the batch into two fermenters using San Diego Super Ale yeast and WLP041 again. I actually preferred the WLP041 for this beer. It came out a little sweeter and pronounced some of the dark malt more, overall it had more character. It did take a little longer to ferment ~13 days. I think WLP041 would make a choice in beers that you want to obtain a sweeter flavor and pronounce the malt more.

y2jrock60 said:

The batch using WLP041 became tainted and never mellowed out. I decided to dump ~2 gallons into a corny keg that had a little black IPA left in it. I was hoping the dark beer would take away some of the stringent flavor, but it didn't work at all. I ended up dumping it. The batch with the Ringwood Ale yeast turned out amazing though.

I did decided to give WLP041 another go. I'm not sure if my first go around with the yeast was due to bad yeast or just contamination. I made an American brown ale where I split the batch into two fermenters using San Diego Super Ale yeast and WLP041 again. I actually preferred the WLP041 for this beer. It came out a little sweeter and pronounced some of the dark malt more, overall it had more character. It did take a little longer to ferment ~13 days. I think WLP041 would make a choice in beers that you want to obtain a sweeter flavor and pronounce the malt more.

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Glad to hear you had success the second time around. From what I've read, those who are successful with it really enjoy it. What temp did you ferment at the second time? I'll be using it in my upcoming India Brown Ale and am trying to gather as much info as possible. Oh and also did you mash lower than normal to offset the 041's lower attenuation? Cheers!

I fermented around 67-68°F for ~13 days if I recall correctly. It took a little longer than most ale yeasts I usually use. I didn't notice any off flavors not associated with the yeast profile. There was a slight sweetness that came through, but not a fruitiness described in the yeasts profile. I mashed at 153°F, I didn't compensate the mash temperature because I split the batch into two fermenters using two separate yeasts, which I do for most my beers. The WLP041 batch was suppose to finish @ 1.019, but actually dropped to 1.015.

I noticed the same thing with 1968....

Twin recipes, one using WLP090, the other with 1968. Fermented in the low to mid 60s (actual wort temp) - Free rise to mid to late 60s after 2 weeks.

After 4 weeks in the primary (including the dryhop), and 2 weeks in the bottles:

WLP090 was perfection. Clarity like no other, vibrant color, supreme taste

Wyeast 1968 was murky, cloudy, ugly brown, harsh alcohol

After another week or two in the bottles:

WLP090 was even better. Smoother without loss of hop character/nose.

Wyeast 1968 was a tiny bit clearer, still a darker brownish color for a pale IPA, and the alcohol was little less hot.

I imagine it had to do with off pitching rates/volumes for the 1968, or an abundance of corn sugar. The temps. that I abided by should have not affected it in this way.

y2jrock60 said:

After reading everyone's replies, which I greatly appreciate, the problem seems to be related to the yeast and fermentation. While doing research I found that if a large quantity of the yeast remains in suspension too long this can result in the production of fusels. This seems to be the case since the beer finished low @ 1.010, when it was suppose to finish around 1.018. There was a large deposit of leaf hops sitting at the top of the fermenter when I pitched the yeast. I'm thinking that they absorbed some of the yeast and even blanketed some of it from floccutating. The hops are still floating on top of the beer as we speak, probably about an 1½" layer of them. Do you think that could be the likely culprit?

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An inch and a half of hops floating on top of your ferment MAY have provided an insulating layer that would not normally be there. This may have led to a higher than expected internal temperature of the fermentation and may have slowed the rate that CO2 could escape? Just thinking..... May have had nothing to do with things...