Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison - they were right!

Yakima 728
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If it is stalled out, I sure would be tempted to finish it up with an ale yeast rather than having to try and heat it up. I would think the results could be quite pleasant. If it is still chugging then by all means...
 
thed163 said:
I am rehatchign an old thread. I used 3724 in an IPA because the temps were way too hot for decent ale yeast... this was 2 weeks ago.

It was 90 then. It's not dropping to 55 or less at night. I have my IPA w the 3724 in the closet (third floor, so a bit warmer) and wrapped in 3 winter coats.
Fermometer on fermenter reads somewhere around 76-78 usually. I figured that means, my brew is sitting around 81-88? which sounds good.

It's been going for 10 days now, and strong. I didn't realize how long of a commitment 3724 was. Any cause for concern? Should I buy a heat jacket asap? ...HALP! :confused:
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What is the current gravity? Sometimes its less of a concern if you managed to squeeze out the majority of 3724s attenuation capabilities. Average attenuation for 3724 is listed at 80%, people regularly report 85-90%. If you are already hitting 80% though you probably have nothing to worry about, the yeast will keep on trucking and no special precautions really need to be taken. Often people report issues with it getting stuck at 1.030ish or so. If you are around this then special precautions should be taken.

If its in an opaque fermenter, like a stainless steel one, you could take a bendy lamp and set the light right next to fermenter and point it at it. The light will provide quite a bit of residual heat. I have a stainless steel fermenter so I can get away with this without light skunking a beer (this is of course if you feel comfortable leaving a lamp on for a week or longer). I can usually keep my saisons above 80 for the first week of primary fermentation.

If you dont mind spending the money, buying the heat jacket might not be a bad idea in general if you like saisons then you can provide a stable heat.
 
ArkotRamathorn said:
What is the current gravity? Sometimes its less of a concern if you managed to squeeze out the majority of 3724s attenuation capabilities. Average attenuation for 3724 is listed at 80%, people regularly report 85-90%. If you are already hitting 80% though you probably have nothing to worry about, the yeast will keep on trucking and no special precautions really need to be taken. Often people report issues with it getting stuck at 1.030ish or so. If you are around this then special precautions should be taken.

If its in an opaque fermenter, like a stainless steel one, you could take a bendy lamp and set the light right next to fermenter and point it at it. The light will provide quite a bit of residual heat. I have a stainless steel fermenter so I can get away with this without light skunking a beer (this is of course if you feel comfortable leaving a lamp on for a week or longer). I can usually keep my saisons above 80 for the first week of primary fermentation.

If you dont mind spending the money, buying the heat jacket might not be a bad idea in general if you like saisons then you can provide a stable heat.
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So, I haven't taken a gravity reading... I figured at least 2 weeks before a reading, and no airlock activity... Then it dawned on me that if I'm cold in the morning, the beer is cold in the morning.

It's been bubbling since 9/15 at this point. It's roaring, no signs of slowing down, lots of little bubbles when I check on it in the airlock.

I am waiting on my refractometer to arrive this weekend I hope. Can you take a SG reading while fermentation is going on? (this is my 3rd batch, I'm a bit green here)
 
thed163 said:
So, I haven't taken a gravity reading... I figured at least 2 weeks before a reading, and no airlock activity... Then it dawned on me that if I'm cold in the morning, the beer is cold in the morning.

It's been bubbling since 9/15 at this point. It's roaring, no signs of slowing down, lots of little bubbles when I check on it in the airlock.

I am waiting on my refractometer to arrive this weekend I hope. Can you take a SG reading while fermentation is going on? (this is my 3rd batch, I'm a bit green here)
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during active fermentation there is no point in taking a gravity reading because you know its still going to drop significantly. wait at least a few days after airlock activity ceases to check out how its doing
 
m00ps said:
during active fermentation there is no point in taking a gravity reading because you know its still going to drop significantly. wait at least a few days after airlock activity ceases to check out how its doing
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This was my thoughts. And if it's way too high, I can still save it with some other yeast starter?

I will say, it smells incredible. I just have real high hopes for my first brew that I took off the beaten path.

m00ps, as for heat? Leave it as is? Don't worry? My original plan was 3711, I grabbed what I thought was 3711 (it was in the 3711 section of the fridge) and then got home to find it was 3724 and they had no 3711. So, instead of quick and easy, I got long and drawn out. And the temps dropped DRASTICALLY this week. 90 at beginningof the week, 60 now.
 
hmm thats not good. Saison yeast actually do their best in the 90s, but temp swings arent good for any type of yeast. The only beer to date I made that tasted like liquid bandaids was from daily temp swings between 65 and 75. You could warm it back up to make sure it finishes since 3724 is notorious for stalling. JUst be sure it stays there. If you do get fusels and off flavors, they can age out sometimes but it takes a long time (+4months for mine)

best idea is next time to insulate the fermentor to both trap in heat and keep the temp more steady
 
m00ps said:
hmm thats not good. Saison yeast actually do their best in the 90s, but temp swings arent good for any type of yeast. The only beer to date I made that tasted like liquid bandaids was from daily temp swings between 65 and 75. You could warm it back up to make sure it finishes since 3724 is notorious for stalling. JUst be sure it stays there. If you do get fusels and off flavors, they can age out sometimes but it takes a long time (+4months for mine)

best idea is next time to insulate the fermentor to both trap in heat and keep the temp more steady
Click to expand...

fermometer has steadily read 76-78 once it cooled. Which I think is still pretty warm for the actual temps of the wort... and it's got 3 winter jackets wrapped aroudn it. I think it's doing fairly well/steady... It hasn't stalled at all yet, that's why I'm wondering.

Maybe I'll buy a heat jacket and keep it on it. when the temps were up, I did not have the jackets on it. It was about 82 in the closet I'm keeping it in. Temps of weather have been drastic, but for the beer, not too bad I don't think.
 
m00ps said:
during active fermentation there is no point in taking a gravity reading because you know its still going to drop significantly. wait at least a few days after airlock activity ceases to check out how its doing
Click to expand...

Well, I think that a 72 hour post-krausen formation reading isnt a bad plan either. You may still have activity in the airlock, but its good to know if you are in trouble or not. It depends on how you define 'active' fermentation. I like to know if I am in trouble and need to take actions or not to help coax more attenuation. If I am looking at 45-60 seconds between bubbles in the air lock, and the yeast is starting to shut down, example a black IPA I did recently, read at 1.020 72 hours post pitch, even if I got a couple more points, I'm looking at a 1.015 FG which is definitely a shade on the sweet side. Before the yeast completely poop out on me I want to rouse, add some invert sugar, and maybe warm it up a little.

If they completely shut down and start dropping out, it becomes that much harder to coax them back into action.
 
ArkotRamathorn said:
Well, I think that a 72 hour post-krausen formation reading isnt a bad plan either. You may still have activity in the airlock, but its good to know if you are in trouble or not. It depends on how you define 'active' fermentation. I like to know if I am in trouble and need to take actions or not to help coax more attenuation. If I am looking at 45-60 seconds between bubbles in the air lock, and the yeast is starting to shut down, example a black IPA I did recently, read at 1.020 72 hours post pitch, even if I got a couple more points, I'm looking at a 1.015 FG which is definitely a shade on the sweet side. Before the yeast completely poop out on me I want to rouse, add some invert sugar, and maybe warm it up a little.

If they completely shut down and start dropping out, it becomes that much harder to coax them back into action.
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This is why I'm thinking I might be good. 9 or 10 days in and krausen still on top, airlock bubbling, etc... is this wrong? Or maybe not as simple as I'm thinking it is?
 
thed163 said:
This is why I'm thinking I might be good. 9 or 10 days in and krausen still on top, airlock bubbling, etc... is this wrong? Or maybe not as simple as I'm thinking it is?
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No theres nothing wrong with that as long as theirs no off smells that could be an indicator of an infection. I cant remember if you said you pitched a starter or just a smack pack. When I was pitching just solo-smack packs I would tend to have a long period of activity, when I am pitching big starters the activity quickly drops off between 72 and 96 hours. Its not unusual for saisons to show activity for a long period of time.

The gravity check also gives you a chance to taste and see if theres any flavor/aroma qualities that could indicate infections or other problems.
 
ArkotRamathorn said:
No theres nothing wrong with that as long as theirs no off smells that could be an indicator of an infection. I cant remember if you said you pitched a starter or just a smack pack. When I was pitching just solo-smack packs I would tend to have a long period of activity, when I am pitching big starters the activity quickly drops off between 72 and 96 hours. Its not unusual for saisons to show activity for a long period of time.

The gravity check also gives you a chance to taste and see if theres any flavor/aroma qualities that could indicate infections or other problems.
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Smack pack, although it was a 2.5g batch, and used the whole smack pack... So it was more than enough.

I think i'll wait until the activity dies a bit. Test my new refractometer (here in 3 or 4 days or so) and take more than enough so I can taste.
I'm very unconcerned about the infection currently. It's smelling great, looks healthy, just more so concerned about whether it's warm enough.

Thanks!
 
Well I'm fermenting with 3724 for the first time. I've stayed away from it due to all the "stalling out" concerns. Fingers crossed! I pitched at 70F last Monday and at the 8 day mark today its sitting at 80-82. Activity has slowed, but I still have krausen and the airlock is blooping 3-4 times a minute. I'll take a gravity reading in the next day or to see where it's at.
 
3724 is a great yeast ... when properly treated. It results in a beer that I like better ( it's my humble opinion here ) that saison Dupont.
1 ) for 5 gallons pitch a 1 quart starter
2) keeps the fermentation temperature above 26 degree Celsius ( 80 Fahrenheit ) , purchase an electric blanket if necessary.

Jacques
 
I used this yeast for the first time recently. Large dose of pure O2, pitched the appropriate size starter, pitched at 70°F and allowed to ramp to 90°F over 4 days, with loose foil over fermentor opening. Still got stuck at 1.035. After several weeks of very very slowly dropping in gravity finally decided to use 3711 to finish it off to around 1.003.
 
I brewed a saison with this yeast last year. I had the same problem, stalled at 1.04. I had to add a bit of safale dry yeast to get it finished. Once it finished though the taste was fabulous. Dry fruity and tart. However next time I brew a saison I will try the French 3711 and see if that is better behaved.

John B.
 
Jbuckley1996 said:
I brewed a saison with this yeast last year. I had the same problem, stalled at 1.04. I had to add a bit of safale dry yeast to get it finished. Once it finished though the taste was fabulous. Dry fruity and tart. However next time I brew a saison I will try the French 3711 and see if that is better behaved.

John B.
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I found it performs way better on the next generation. I mentioned a few posts up it was slow as molasses the first time for me (took 5 weeks)... but when I repitched the slurry into a new batch it ripped through the beer faster than 3711. I was down at FG when I checked on day 4!
 
I recommend chilling wort down to 90deg. Pitch 1qt starter also at 90 degrees (5.5g batch). I wrap my fermenter in aluminum foil and blanket. Fermentation will bring it up to 95-97. I hold it there for 2 weeks. Works like a charm.

I think it stresses the yeast when u pitch at 70 and then raise it up. I just pitch warm and keep it warm. Give it a try.
 
Another great way to lower the gravity on Saisons that was mentioned in earlier pages (and worked charms for mine) is open fermenting.

A few experiments have been done with commercial saison yeasts and those fermented with an airlock or BO tube stalled nearly 80%more (4/5 times more) while those with sanitized tinfoil disnt on any of the tests. They hypothesis is that there is a suck back reaction that causes problem if there isn't proper airflow (I'm admittedly mangling the explanation).
 
I just wanted to thank everyone in this old thread for the patience to ride out this yeast. Did the old 1.020 stall just like clockwork at 2 weeks. I left it on and left it alone (probably longer than I needed to). After 8 weeks, I just kegged at 1.004. Awesome funky notes with nice dry finish and that is without any carb yet. Thanks again!
 

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