2 or 3 roller mill? MM or Crankenstein?

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carp

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I have a barley crusher that has about 1000 lbs on it and its starting to function poorly. The knurls seem less sharp and while prepping to brew the other day, it 'broke free' or slipped many many times over the course of 20 lbs.

I've read many of the threads comparing mills, and think I'll go with a Monster Mill. However I'd consider a Crankenstein if there are good arguments to do so, at similar cost as the MM.

I'm debating between the MM-3 with 1.5 rollers, or the MM-2-2, with 2" rollers.

I mill about 400 lbs of grain a year and expect to do so for the next decade at least. I want this mill to last 'forever'. I'll be driving it with a 1/2" low speed drill. I don't condition my malt, and I have had no trouble with rust on my BC stored in the garage, so stainless seems not to be a worthwhile option for me. I get around 85% efficiency with my BC, so am not looking to improve quality of crush. Higher output would be welcome, but I expect that even the slower of the two MM options will be somewhat faster than the BC.

So, what do ya'll suggest? And would you say that the $40 upgrade for hardened rollers is worthwhile?

Thanks
Greg
 
Go with the MM2-2.0 with the hardened rollers option and it will last forever. I used mine for the first time last brew day (also picked up the base, hopper and hopper extension, so I can mill up to 39# without refilling). LOVE IT! The 6" long rollers are also a huge plus. The thing is built like it will take a direct hit from a tank and keep on cranking. Ok, maybe not, but the rollers will survive.

If you're thinking of going with the 3 roller model, get the 2" rollers there too, hardened of course. I don't think you'll live to regret getting either [Monster] mill. Meaning your kids, and/or grandkids will be using it when you're taking a dirt nap.

BTW, once I had my mill fully assembled, it truly lived up to the name "Monster"... :eek: :D :rockin:

Also, I had a BC that I ran about 250# through. No real issues with it, but the Monster Mill is an entirely different class (far above BC)...
 
Golddiggie said:
Go with the MM2-2.0 with the hardened rollers option and it will last forever. I used mine for the first time last brew day (also picked up the base, hopper and hopper extension, so I can mill up to 39# without refilling). LOVE IT! The 6" long rollers are also a huge plus. The thing is built like it will take a direct hit from a tank and keep on cranking. Ok, maybe not, but the rollers will survive.

If you're thinking of going with the 3 roller model, get the 2" rollers there too, hardened of course. I don't think you'll live to regret getting either [Monster] mill. Meaning your kids, and/or grandkids will be using it when you're taking a dirt nap.

BTW, once I had my mill fully assembled, it truly lived up to the name "Monster"... :eek: :D :rockin:

Also, I had a BC that I ran about 250# through. No real issues with it, but the Monster Mill is an entirely different class (far above BC)...
Click to expand...

While I appreciate the genuine input, you've only used the product once. I'd like to also hear from someone who's used a their MM etc for an extended period of time...
 
Thank you sir, I'd say for the money MMs are the way to go. I did a lot of homework. the 2" is a little more than I need. I do about 600# a year and I'll be using this thing for ever. Top quality and construction. Plus they have dual concentric adjustment. Which means you can adjust the mill to the perfect grind as your equipment evolves.
 
MM and Crankenstein are 99% identical due to their common "heritage". You can find the history of the firms/dispute on here and other forums.

MM is famous for fabulous support but CS also has good support from i read here.
 
I have a 2 roller MM and have used it more than 30 times this past year. I have never had a problem with it. It's built like a tank. I did purchase the hardened steel rollers. Overall I am very pleased. Great quality and more importantly, great milling.

Cheers,
 
Thanks guys for the feedback.

Those with the 3 roller - why that vs the 2 roller? Same question inverted for the 2 roller owners.
 
I have the MM3.0 with 2" hardened rollers and now have had it for about a year. I have about 800 lbs through it now and it shows almost zero signs of wear. I've brought it to big brew and ran a bunch of grain that day and it handled it without issue. I highly recommend this mill.

This mill is a beast. Here's a pic when it was new.

MonsterMillCart.jpg
 
carp said:
Thanks guys for the feedback.

Those with the 3 roller - why that vs the 2 roller? Same question inverted for the 2 roller owners.
Click to expand...

I really don't have a great answer for you. I thought the 2 roller was all I needed. I feel for my purposes that was a correct belief. I brew 10 gal batches. Only problem I noticed is my drill can run out of power with a finer milling. It's truly a heavy duty mill. Needs a lot of torque to turn those rollers. I can't see either being a bad choice. I feel confident you will enjoy either one. Main difference for me was price.

Cheers,
 
I've been reasonably happy with my mm3-2, you just have to make sure the unit is perfectly square. Otherwise it'll jam.

DD- MM and crankenstein were the "same company", it was a partnership that went sour. They went their separate ways but both kept the design and now sell them separately.
 
bigbeergeek said:
While I appreciate the genuine input, you've only used the product once. I'd like to also hear from someone who's used a their MM etc for an extended period of time...
Click to expand...

IMO, it's similar to cars... You don't need long to know the differences between a Ford Focus and Audi R8. IMO, that's pretty much how I'd rank the BC and Monster lines. As others have already posted (since my last) the Monster Mills won't have any issue for the long haul. Steelers77 has one of their 3 roller mills and uses it for crushing grain ordered from his store (Farmhouse Brewing Supply).

I would reach out to Fred from Monster Brewing Hardware to get info on their products. I don't expect to have any desire to ever change my mill now. I will probably be switching over to a dedicated motor at some point though.
 
carp said:
I have a barley crusher that has about 1000 lbs on it and its starting to function poorly. The knurls seem less sharp and while prepping to brew the other day, it 'broke free' or slipped many many times over the course of 20 lbs.

I've read many of the threads comparing mills, and think I'll go with a Monster Mill. However I'd consider a Crankenstein if there are good arguments to do so, at similar cost as the MM.

I'm debating between the MM-3 with 1.5 rollers, or the MM-2-2, with 2" rollers.

I mill about 400 lbs of grain a year and expect to do so for the next decade at least. I want this mill to last 'forever'. I'll be driving it with a 1/2" low speed drill. I don't condition my malt, and I have had no trouble with rust on my BC stored in the garage, so stainless seems not to be a worthwhile option for me. I get around 85% efficiency with my BC, so am not looking to improve quality of crush. Higher output would be welcome, but I expect that even the slower of the two MM options will be somewhat faster than the BC.

So, what do ya'll suggest? And would you say that the $40 upgrade for hardened rollers is worthwhile?

Thanks
Greg
Click to expand...

Barley Crusher brand mills have a life time warranty
 
I think I'm going to go with the MM2-2.0.

Regarding lifetime warranty on the BC - I'll see what I can do with the maker to get it fixed up and then sell it. I really don't want to have to depend on it after the impending collapse of modern industrial society.

Just kidding, but keeping myself stocked with good beer is important enough that I do want to have long-term reliable equipment.

I appreciate everyone's replies and information.
 
My homebrew shop has the MM3 2" hardend rollers and has around 3000lb of grain mill time works as new almost a year old now
 
I have a CrankandStein 3D with stainless rollers. I've put a couple hundred pounds of grain through it so far, and it simply a fantastic mill. Absolutely beautiful crush.

Why did I select this particular mill? I figured if I was going make an investment in a mill, I might as well be sure I got the best to start with. I didn't want to get two rollers and be wondering what I was missing by not getting the three. I don't condition my grain, but I like that I could without worrying about rust.

CS and MM really are the same beast. I have nothing against Fred and Monster Mills, anyone will tell you its a terrific product. I simply chose the CS because it came from the originator of those mills.
 
I bought a CrankandStein 2A in 2007 and it is still serving me well. It's a simple two roller mill with 5 inch long 1.5 inch diameter plain steel rollers. It's easily adjustable, and it seems indestructable. I mill only about 200 lb a year. I see no evidence of wear yet.

If I ever wear it out, which I think will take a long time at my rate of use, I'll probably go with something like the CS 320D with SS roller upgrade. It's not that I'd need that kind of muscle or the stainless rollers, but the bling factor is hard to ignore.
 
I bought my MM-3 when Monster first got going. I have the 1 1/2" rolls with the stainless option. I've ran about #600 through it w/o any issues. MM didn't have the hopper option when I bought mine. Had some feeding/jamb issues, but it was due to my moronic design. Fred fixed me right up and the customer service is fantastic. Couldn't ask for more. I do think any mill at the homebrewing level is a good purchase. Now I need to motorize it!
 
I've been using the MM3 1,5" roller for about 1 year. The crush is perfect but a lot of jamming problem. Not able to solve it yet. I will work on it this winter and try to fix it for good. Monster support is good though.
 
Sciyan said:
I've been using the MM3 1,5" roller for about 1 year. The crush is perfect but a lot of jamming problem. Not able to solve it yet. I will work on it this winter and try to fix it for good. Monster support is good though.
Click to expand...

Solved my jamming problem by cutting down the feed opening on my hopper. I made a piece like the one that comes from Monster. Solved my problem. My guess is your opening is too large. Mine was allowing grain to catch on the outside of the roll, instead of staying between the rolls.
 
We've put around 10000lb through our MM (left). We were told that we would easily be able to 50k LB of grain through the mill with out any wearing issues. We did but the hardened rollers.
 
Steelers77, so you got the 1144 alloy steel rollers rather than the 303 stainless? Maybe a metallurgist on the forum could tell us, but I think the 1144 alloy would be the better choice over 303 stainless for durability in every respect but corrosion resistance.
 
I'm not a metallugist by any means bt I have a masters degree in Chemical Engineering so I suppose I'm close to qualified to answer but 303 Stainless is relatively soft. It's primarily used as a "machinable" grade of stainless as 304 and 316 give machinists a hard time to machine relative to 303. The real advantage of 303 SS is that it won't corrode. Otherwise I think it will wear much faster than the 1144, especially if it is case hardened (heat treated). Here's a summary of each from a site I found.

STAINLESS TYPE 303

Type 303 is highly corrosion resistant & non-magnetic.
It has non-galling & non-seizing qualities which allow for easy machining & is better for lighter equipment if welding is not required.
When cold worked - can become slightly magnetic.
Free machining for heavier cuts in automatic machining operations.
Corrosion resistant to atmospheric exposures, sterilizing solutions, most organic & many inorganic chemicals, most dyes, nitric acid & foods.
Machinability is 70% (1212 crs = 100% & 1018 crs= 78%.
Non magnetic.

STRESSPROOF C1144

C1144 is made by a patented process which consists of drawing the bar through a special die under heavy draft, then stress relieving it in a precisely controlled furnace.
Users can now get wearability without case hardening, strength without heat treating, plus excellent machinability & tool life.
Other benefits include resistance to fatigue & stress, balanced working & minimum warpage & distortion.
 
I'm not sure what the "hardened" material was, I was just told it would last for at least 50k lbs of grain and I was sold. FYI, I put around 3k lbs of grain through my Barley crusher and I did notice a decline in performance towards the end of its life. That being said the owner of BC will refurbish your BC but I needed something more durable so I went with the MM.
 
If it's any help, Fred Francis of MM told me he uses the 2 roller for his own rig. He says he couldn't tell the diff in the crush.

I have the 3 roller. Love it, but I can understand how a 2 roller is simpler with only one non geared roller to drive instead of 2. I bet it makes it a little more forgiving on a mount that's not 100% flat. I have had a few issues with roller binding on my MM3 and have boiled it down to needing to fill the hopper full before engaging the motor. Wish that wasn't the case- I've remounted the thing a few times and for what I can tell she's 100% solid and flat. But I still have a few binding issues. Fred is helping me with them.

I really feel like the MM or others should have a bottom piece of metal that gives you the factory spacing of the bottom mounting holes - like the hopper gives you for the top. Would make it more difficult to home make a mount that isn't perfect and would help prohibit binding issues. After all, those of us who are motorizing our mills are almost definitely making our own mounts and not going with the MM mount.
 
Hopefully this video will work. MM3 with MM base and a cheap harbor freight stand and drill.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I see the stainless rollers as a waste of money. The hardened rollers are only really needed for a commercial venture. 2 rollers will do but 3 rollers are cool if nothing else. The larger rollers should feed better but I haven't had any trouble with wheat through the standard rollers.
 
Irrenarzt said:
I'm not a metallugist by any means bt I have a masters degree in Chemical Engineering so I suppose I'm close to qualified to answer but 303 Stainless is relatively soft. It's primarily used as a "machinable" grade of stainless as 304 and 316 give machinists a hard time to machine relative to 303. The real advantage of 303 SS is that it won't corrode. Otherwise I think it will wear much faster than the 1144, especially if it is case hardened (heat treated). Here's a summary of each from a site I found.

STAINLESS TYPE 303

Type 303 is highly corrosion resistant & non-magnetic.
It has non-galling & non-seizing qualities which allow for easy machining & is better for lighter equipment if welding is not required.
When cold worked - can become slightly magnetic.
Free machining for heavier cuts in automatic machining operations.
Corrosion resistant to atmospheric exposures, sterilizing solutions, most organic & many inorganic chemicals, most dyes, nitric acid & foods.
Machinability is 70% (1212 crs = 100% & 1018 crs= 78%.
Non magnetic.

STRESSPROOF C1144

C1144 is made by a patented process which consists of drawing the bar through a special die under heavy draft, then stress relieving it in a precisely controlled furnace.
Users can now get wearability without case hardening, strength without heat treating, plus excellent machinability & tool life.
Other benefits include resistance to fatigue & stress, balanced working & minimum warpage & distortion.
Click to expand...

Fred has indicated otherwise. He states that 303 is harder than 1144
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/most-durable-grain-mill-57769/index3.html#post590269
 
Irrenarzt said:
I'm not a metallugist by any means bt I have a masters degree in Chemical Engineering so I suppose I'm close to qualified to answer but 303 Stainless is relatively soft. It's primarily used as a "machinable" grade of stainless as 304 and 316 give machinists a hard time to machine relative to 303. The real advantage of 303 SS is that it won't corrode. Otherwise I think it will wear much faster than the 1144, especially if it is case hardened (heat treated). Here's a summary of each from a site I found.

STAINLESS TYPE 303

Type 303 is highly corrosion resistant & non-magnetic.
It has non-galling & non-seizing qualities which allow for easy machining & is better for lighter equipment if welding is not required.
When cold worked - can become slightly magnetic.
Free machining for heavier cuts in automatic machining operations.
Corrosion resistant to atmospheric exposures, sterilizing solutions, most organic & many inorganic chemicals, most dyes, nitric acid & foods.
Machinability is 70% (1212 crs = 100% & 1018 crs= 78%.
Non magnetic.

STRESSPROOF C1144

C1144 is made by a patented process which consists of drawing the bar through a special die under heavy draft, then stress relieving it in a precisely controlled furnace.
Users can now get wearability without case hardening, strength without heat treating, plus excellent machinability & tool life.
Other benefits include resistance to fatigue & stress, balanced working & minimum warpage & distortion.
Click to expand...

stompbox said:
Fred has indicated otherwise. He states that 303 is harder than 1144
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/most-durable-grain-mill-57769/index3.html#post590269
Click to expand...

When I was looking to buy my mill I asked a buddy who is the QC Manager for a fastener company about the different metals hardness. He said that the 303 would definitely be softer than the others.
 
jeepinjeepin said:
When I was looking to buy my mill I asked a buddy who is the QC Manager for a fastener company about the different metals hardness. He said that the 303 would definitely be softer than the others.
Click to expand...

<shrug> I am just pointing out what came out of the horse's mouth.... errr the horse's keyboard.
 
I talked to a professor at Arizona who definitely knows his schit more than us. He says once case hardened, the C1144 is approximately 4 times harder than 303 stainless. If you tried to case harden 303 SS, you would anneal it which in turn would make it much softer. But overall 303 is a tad bit harder to start. So Fred isn't lying when he claims 303 is harder (albeit marginally), but the deal becomes apples to oranges once you talk about heat treatment.
 

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