Enzymes and flaked oats

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Facinerous

Facinerous

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So I found a recipe that I want to give a go, DC Raspberry Stout. The grain bill doesn't confuse me, but there is one thing about it that I'm not 100% on yet.

Steeping grains:
5 oz. British Chocolate
5 oz. Roasted Barley
12 oz. Flaked Oats

With flaked oats I've read that you need barley malt in order to get starch conversion.

From How to Brew.com
Oatmeal 1 L Oats are wonderful in a porter or stout. Oatmeal lends a smooth, silky mouthfeel and a creaminess to a stout that must be tasted to be understood. Oats are available whole, steel-cut (i.e. grits), rolled, and flaked. Rolled and flaked oats have had their starches gelatinized (made soluble) by heat and pressure, and are most readily available as "Instant Oatmeal" in the grocery store. Whole oats and "Old Fashioned Rolled Oats" have not had the degree of gelatinization that Instant have had and must be cooked before adding to the mash. "Quick" oatmeal has had a degree of gelatinization but does benefit from being cooked before adding to the mash. Cook according to the directions on the box (but add more water) to ensure that the starches will be fully utilized. Use 0.5-1.5 lb. per 5 gal batch. Oats need to be mashed with barley malt (and its enzymes) for conversion.
Click to expand...

With this said Roasted Barley is an unmalted grain. So I guess I would be relying on the Chocolate for the enzymes to convert the starches in the Oats? Is this true? Or is the recipe that this person created using flaked oats with unconverted starches in the finished brew?

What do you all think?
 
This recipe is designed to use the flaked oats for the silkiness and flavor additions they provide when steeped. The sugars that could be obtained by mashing with the pale malt isn't needed in the recipe.
 
You need to convert the oats or you'll end up with unconverted starch in your beers. Not only unappetizing, but for for bacteria. Chocolate malt has no diastatic power and will not convert the oats. Either leave them out of include about 1/2 lb. of pale malt.
 
Thanks Denny. I'm heading to the ol lhbs in a bit and I was gonna ask the guys there. From the thread I got the recipe from I have seen no complaints.

I'm still pretty new to the homebrewing sceen and I chose the recipe because it sounded pretty good, and uses ingredients that I haven't used yet. So needless to say this one has a high level of learning from my end.

What I am getting so far is the starches in the oats are not desirable and should be converted. Also that with the small grain bill supplied with recipe the starches in the oats will not be converted.

I will post what the guys say at the lhbs in a few hours.
 
Many people steep flaked grains and say they have no apparent problems. That doesn't mean it's the best thing to do.
 
daksin said:
Yea, you gain absolutely nothing but starch haze by steeping flaked oats. You'll need to mash them with some base malt.
Click to expand...

Tell me that again. I've used oats for steeping in an oatmeal stout. The silky mouthfeel and the flavor were both there without mashing.
 
Listen to Denny and BYO article:

Since brewing yeast does not secrete enzymes that degrade starch and do not ferment starch, any starch in wort will be found in the finished beer. And as you state, starch in beer can cause haze issues and can also cause problems with microbiological stability. Certain yeasts, such as Brettanomyces, and bacteria, such as Pediococcus, can cause super-attenuation. This means that these organisms can ferment compounds that brewing yeast do not. If starch remains in beer it is an invitation to these possible contaminants to grow and spread their funk into your beer.
Click to expand...
 
Ha ha. Thanks everyone for the supporting info. As I said earlier I am new to the brewing thing, and I was torn between just following the recipe I had found or modifying it because it would make more sense to do so.

I talked to the guys at the ol LHBS and they basically stated the exact same thing everyone else has on this thread. If I were to leave the steeping grains as they were the starches from the oats would not convert, but the oats added would still add a creamy feel to the final stout. Adding 1/2 pound of 2-row, though, would convert the starches in the oats and still create the creamy feel to the final stout.

With all this, I chose the 1/2 pound 2-row addition.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
T'was a very delicious stout indeed. Everything blended together nicely. From the recipe I used blackberries instead of raspberries, just in case anyone was wondering. Everything else I pretty much did to a T.

I did use the amount of vanilla that was listed for the recipe against my lhbs's advice. When bottling I was afraid that I had used to much (the smell of vanilla was very strong), but after a few weeks of carbonation everything balanced out quite well.

Needless to say. My lady was very enamored with the stout, and wants me to do it again soon. There are just so many other ideas in my head for beers to make, and so little brewing time.
 

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