Automated Decoction?

I am in the planing stages of a fully automated brewery. I thought it would be really cool to integrate an automatic decoction mash into this. I thought this might be achieved by pumping part of the mash into the kettle, boiling it, then pumping it back.

Question, can a march pump, pump a thick mash slurry? I am thinking no. Has anyone done this before?

Definitely a no.

I'd say it depends on which March pump. You need a positive displacement pump to move a slurry.

You're also going to need a motorized paddle to stir that decoction constantly... Neat idea, I'd love to see more of this project as it comes together.

DUDE, RIGHT ON. I just bought an AC motor and was wondering what to do with it. The thing is a beast. Impulse buy.

I am thinking that this project in not too far fetched if I get the right pump.

At the moment I am gathering supplies to build a getto RIMS, while I plan my frame and gather other components. Nothing really to post about yet. I dropped my first $950 last week and waiting on stuff to come in. I see this as being a multiple year project, with hopes of having at least as much automation as the brewmagic by this time next year.

This sounds like a sick idea following this thread!!!

If your mash tun has a false bottom (as it probably should) you can pump wort over to the kettle then just take a ladle and move some of the grain over. Just put a bazooka screen or something on the boil kettle so when you pump back to the mash you dont get grain into your pump. Then just scoop the grain back to the MLT. Its not quite uber automation but its a way to do it. You may even be able to rig an ice cream maker to your kettle to automatically stir the decoction

Mirillis that'd work, but if you're really going to all the trouble to automate and have a motor to stir a decoction, well...

Personally, I'm thinking this sounds fun and since I just scored 2 kegs for keggles, have a 7.5 gallon aluminum kettla already, and 7.5 gallon keg available as well, I'm thinking, as Tim might be, dedicated decoction vessel. It would mean a 4 vessel system, but that just means more bling!

TimWeber said:

DUDE, RIGHT ON. I just bought an AC motor and was wondering what to do with it. The thing is a beast. Impulse buy.

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You should go oldschool and hang some stainless chains from the motor that drag across the bottom of the pot constantly during boiling.

I was thinking about this last night, and 4 vessels is what I was thinking. Then you can still do a double brew day. I did a tour of Victory Brewery recently and they have a dedicated Decoction Vessel. I may have drooled a bit in it, watch out for the next batch of Sunrise.

Chains... Excellent idea! I just saw that in a picture of a german brewery.

I've read that bringing a decoction up to boil is not really desired, something 205F is better. You could really automate things here and control that as well.

I am getting too excited here. I just got my RIMS ordered, working on the stand. I won't get to this for a few months, but it's ok to dream.

GilaMinumBeer said:

I'd say it depends on which March pump. You need a positive displacement pump to move a slurry.

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You can move a slurry with a centrifugal pump (so you don't necessarily need a positive displacement pump), but it has to be specially built for this. But you're right, even a "thin" mash is going to cause difficulties since it's more like a wet solid or a "settling slurry" and not a liquid. The March pumps most use for brewing won't cut it at all.

The selection of a slurry pump isn't straightforward and depends on a lot of things (particle size, settling time, etc.), but there are many different options. If you want to pump the mash, a good bet is something like a screw pump (which is a positive displacment pump). Screw pumps work well with large particle diameters and can handle settling of the solids. They're commonly used in the food industry as well as oil & gas and mining for moving solid-liquid slurries. However, I don't know whether you can find one small/cheap enough to be useful.

Hmmm, maybe a sewage pump would work?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...D26X-_-100665940&locStoreNum=4145&marketID=34

Or even a modifided wet-vac pump. Keeping oxygen out might be a problem though.

OR could have a linerar actuator raised platform for the decoction vessel. Lower it when taking in mash, raise it when moving the mash back to the MT. Actually, that might be the coolest way to do it. I'm a sucker for bling.

A problem I see with this is the thickness of the deco you plan to pull. Especially for early decoction pulls you want a thick decoction. I use a strainer to pull the desired grains then top up with wort. You would always be pulling a thin mash. Maybe you are fine with that.

A decoction stirrer sounds like a great idea to me, but full automation seems like way more work than just measuring out the decoction volume. Speaking of which, how would you measure the volume of the pulled deco?

Liked I said, just dreaming at the moment. It would take a lot of work and a bit of money, but it would be pretty cool! It must be doable if breweries have this in place. Just trying to get it on a small scale is the tough part.

High temp float switch, or ultrasonic sensor, or load sensor, flow meter...

Anything is doable with time and money. I will be building the mixer though. That's easy peezy.

You might consider copying the cereal cooker system that the BMC type breweries use for cooking adjunct cereal grains. Divide malt bill and do two mash tuns with smaller mash tun brought to boil and drained into larger mash tun for step temp increase. Recirculated wort could be used to flush smaller tun contents into larger tun after dump valve was opened.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

A problem I see with this is the thickness of the deco you plan to pull. Especially for early decoction pulls you want a thick decoction. I use a strainer to pull the desired grains then top up with wort. You would always be pulling a thin mash.

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If he had a false bottom in both the kettle and the mash tun, he could always adjust the liquid volume with his other pump. If you've got to much in the kettle just send some back to the mashtun. In fact, this might be the best way to get grain over; use too much liquid and then adjust it after the fact.

Of course, we're talking more equipment and money once again.