Yeasty questions...

Hey guys,

A while back I made a Saison, after reading this: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f164/belgian-strong-gluten-free-271969/, using Wyeast Belgian saison yeast. I cut open the bag, took out the smack pack, and made my starter using 2cups of rice syrup solids. Anyway, it has long since finished and carbed beautifully, I think its a very nice beer (citrusy, refreshing, carbonated). The only problem is, if it gets agitated, I start to get a mild gluten reaction - very uncomfortable. But the weird thing is, if I'm careful, keeping it upright, and pour off the beer without any yeast/settlement, I get no reaction at all! Are the gluten peptides settling at the bottom, or are they stuck to the yeast? Its times like this I wish I had a good microscope, or access to a lab...

The only Belgian style dried yeast AFAIK is Safbrew T-58. Is T-58 good for a Belgian Strong ale AND Saison's? When I look at the wyeast selection, I see separate yeasts for Belgian Strong, Saison, Belgian wit, Abbey Ale, etc... basically I'm skeptical that T-58 can produce so many styles. Has anyone had experience with it?

Has anyone out there tried propagating a glutenous liquid yeast to try and breed out/lower the gluten content? I had a 4qt Belgian Strong yeast (wyeast 1388) starter and I saved a bit, and I want to try and breed out any gluten. I have about 10ml, and I'm going to add a small starter (200ml, w/ 2tbsp rice solids), and I'll increase it by doubling the addition amounts every 2 days. The important question is, will that reduce the gluten content significantly, or should I breed another lineage (sample this one and start over)? I'm having difficulty finding quantitative info on yeast propagation.

Thanks,

So let me restate. You are assuming that your Wyeast Smack Pack contained gluten. And that after a rice starter AND a 5 gallon batch of the Saison, that there is enough residual gluten from the smack pack to make you ill? Sounds kinda far fetched. Maybe the yeast is causing your discomfort?

Anyways, I would wash the yeast (many methods on the forum) and possibly add a rice starch source to grab the gluten (if present). Chill and pour the supernatant off the sediment as soon as possible, as the supernatant may contain the gluten. Do an internet search for Gluten purification for ideas.

No, I don't at all think it's far fetched that yeast containing gluten caused a gluten reaction. Some people are VERY sensitive. I haven't played around with T-58, but it could be compatible with many styles due to pitching temperature and fermentation temperature. Just a thought

This:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f164/making-gluten-free-beer-need-gf-yeast-72962/

Interesting, thanks guys. I dont think it was a reaction to yeast, I have in the past had beers made from dry yeast where the bottle got mixed up, I drank the yeast, and it did nothing. Also it felt like a gluten reaction, albeit "the mildest glutening ever" - but it had most of the usual signs. Usually I put the beer in the freezer for 1hr, and pour gradually, but this time I was at my parents place, and the bottles fell off the seat and were jostled due to my driving.

Although, I am very sensitive to gluten. There were 2 posts about the PPM level, one was 120PPM, and one was 2?! - I dont think i would react to 2PPM! There could be a variation in the ppm batch to batch also, and this was a half-sized batch (2.5gal) so that could have doubled the final PPM. In some places, like Australia, the limit is 5ppm.

But I think I am going to keep using smack packs this way, and either do another racking, filter them through 1micron filters & force carb/keg, start yeast washing, or I could do regular/double-sized batches (to dilute it). Overall, I "think" there was between 50-200PPM of gluten/peptides on the yeast, but I cant prove it... other than drinking a mixed one - i'll do that right now.

Edit:
Had one that was mixed up, and I could sense a bit of a reaction, but not much. Probably takes 2+ 500ml shaken beers to cause a reaction, so maybe I dont need to do anything to a 5gallon batch. This is probably a rare situation... well, at least this is out there on the internet - be careful with liquid yeasts.