First timer

first post on the board! I'm working on my first batch of hard cider. My girlfriend and I were given the opportunity to pick an entire bushel of heirloom Winesap apples for free! Using an antique cider press we spent an afternoon, washing, chopping, mashing, and pressing the apples ending with 5 gallons of juice. After a lot of research we added 5 crushed campden tablets and let the juice sit for 24 hours. After 24 hours we added some pectic enzyme and let the juice go for another 2 hours. Finally we added 1 pound of corn sugar, 2 pounds of brown sugar, some yeast nutrients, and dry pitched a pack of Red Star Champagne yeast. We got a SG reading of 1.101 to start. It took about 36 hours to start, but now our airlock is bubbling at about 130 bubbles per minute. We have high hopes for this project and hope we have found a new hobby to teach us both a lesson in patience. Any tips or questions are welcomed and appreciated.


We will be calling this batch " Yukon Cornelius' Northern Conquest 2011

Welcome to the addiction. Just remember, unlike abominables, fermentors don't bounce.

Sounds like you're on the right path to making some nice stuff. With that high of a starting gravity and considering you used champagne yeast, it sounds like you'll end up with a product closer to apple wine. I know, I'm splitting hairs. :cross:

In any case, thanks for posting and keep us updated with your progress. Hopefully you and your girlfriend are rewarded with some tasty brew when it's all said and done!

we're trying more for a high-gravity cider and less for an apfelwein. We went with the champagne yeast, just for the yeast's "staying power" in relation to the potential alcohol and hopefully high ending gravity. The plan is to ferment for 2 weeks or so in primary, rack it to a secondary for another 2 weeks or so to help clear it up. During this time, depending on sweetness and flavor, we might possibly add some xylitol to sweeten it up, after all we are going for a sweet fizzy cider. After some time in secondary we're gonna back-carb it into flip-top bottles using dextrose as our primer, and then down into the basement for a time.

here's a question I have. The GF wants to use some Blueberry essence and concentrate we picked up at our LHBS in some of the bottles. I know from reading that any flavor additives should be done when racking to secondary. What would we end up with if we added some to just a few bottles during bottling? Would it be a disaster?

that advice is probably to prevent you from adding it to the primary, where flavors tend to get lost. as long as it doesn't have a lot of fermentable sugar i don't see why not add it to bottles. it will probably not be clear by the time you bottle, but you can let it clear in the bottles and just be careful pouring (personally i would leave it longer in both primary and secondary before bottling)
champagne yeast will chug through a lot of sugar, i'd expect a very low ending gravity- you'll be pushing 15% alcohol, that's gonna take a good while to mellow in your basement- give it time

So after 3 days of bubbling away like mad, our airlock has slowed to about 5 bubbles per minute. Any ideas or pointers? whats going wrong? I'm getting nervous!

so it looks like something contaminated our 1st batch. Went to the girlfriend's house to inspect the batch, and to my disappointment, the cider has taken on a horrible hue, about the shade of organic apple cider vinegar. Investigating further, the SG is 0. no reading at all. and the batch truly has become apple cider vinegar. Devastating! so much hard work, and it looked so promising for the past 3 days, even this morning it looked and smelled great but alas it has become fouled. We will not quit, we have a local cider house and tomorrow we are going to pick up 5 gallons from them and start another batch.

Any ideas on what went wrong?

Not sure if it could have become vinegar this fast. Did you taste it? If so, did it have a vinegar taste, or was it more like awful rocket fuel? Do you see any floaties on the top?

What you should be hoping for is rocket fuel; that 15% will taste like that for a good long while.

I don't suggest dumping this batch; make sure there's an airlock on there, throw in the right amount of campden, and wait it out.

agree with kittyfeet, it sounds like it has gone about right.... vinegar takes a very long time unless you innoculate with acetobacter and bubble oxygen through it. you have yourself some space age rocket fuel. personally i would rack it to a secondary vessel/vessels to get it away from air, something without any headspace, forget the campden, and forget about it for a long time. it's done fermenting but it ain't done yet

it tasted awful, just like organic cider vinegar. our fermentation temp was at 65 degrees, and given the amount of sugar we put in , I don't believe it would be done fermenting after only 60 hours.The color changed completely as well. we're starting fresh tomorrow with cider from a local cider house. I think her younger brother might have snooped where he shouldnt have... I will let it sit and see if it begins to clarify, but honestly from everything i've seen and read something is not right.

I agree with Kittyfeet and dinnerstick, you should rack what you have into a glass carboy, put on an airlock, and forget about it for a while. Don't toss it down the drain! It might turn into something tasty in 1/2 year or so. Patience is truly a virtue you need in this hobby.

Well after a trip to the LHBS the guys there say our cider is fine, and to put it out of sight lol. I guess its just first time jitters. I will continue to rack it every 2 weeks or so and keep everyone updated. We also started our second batch of cider using store bought juice. A ratio of 3 gallons of Musselman's cider to 1 3/4 gallons of Apple and Eve juice, we added enough brown sugar to bring the gravity up to 1.073, pitching in a pack of red star champagne yeast after some pectic enzyme and this morning she already has a really nice looking krauzen forming. I think we'll call this one Yukon Cornelius Northpole Expedition. lol there's a story behind the names but thats for another post.

What are you hoping to accomplish by racking every two weeks? That seems unnecessary, your increasing chances for infection and oxidation.

Apple cider generally doesn't look very pretty for the first couple weeks of fermentation, and it tastes even worse. I think you just need to quit fussing with it, and certainly stop looking at it as it seems to be making you nervous. Cider needs time. Leave it in your fermentation vessel for a few months if you can, you won't be sorry. Fermentation will be finished but more time in the carboy will give it a chance to clear and to settle. Then, bottle it and leave it another few months, if you can resist it.

3 pounds of sugar is a lot for 5 gallons. Less sugar will give you a better tasting cider, in my opinion. It will be at the expense of alcohol but if the goal is to make something that gets you pissed quicker my advice is to use less sugar and just drink twice as much

I also think it's a good idea to get a gravity reading at the start of the process. The apples themselves contain a lot of sugar and checking the gravity will give you a real indication of what the final alcohol content is going to be.

Great News!

both batches of my cider have finished fermentation and are ready for bottling!! Our original batch came in at 9.6% alcohol and the second batch came in at 12.4% ! the first batch, being made from very bitter winesap apples, will require some back sweetening and the sour smell finally went away as well.The second batch from the store bought cider, will require virtually no additional sweetening. I am very happy that both batches turned out so well, given the shaky start to the first one. Patience truly is key. Excited to see how they are after a couple weeks of conditioning in the bottles, but I think they will be great for Thanksgiving and possibly Christmas gifts if any remain...

Yukon_Cornelius said:

During this time, depending on sweetness and flavor, we might possibly add some xylitol to sweeten it up, after all we are going for a sweet fizzy cider.

Click to expand...

I would be certain to only add the sweetener to just a portion of the batch. Both for comparison purposes and because artificial sweeteners can lend an off flavor depending on what is used.

Some use a mixture of sweeteners.
Personally when I use an artificial sweetener, I use only Splenda which is sucralose and tends not to impart any off flavor when used in moderation.
Note that if you purchase sucralose at the store, there are a number of formulations that are used. The Splenda brand has formulations that contain variously: dextrose, maltodextrin and other ingredients. If memory serves me, the version which is called “granulated” is sucralose and maltodextrin ... this is the version that I have on hand. Though maltodextrin is approx. 10% to 12% fermentable, it is preferable to dextrose if a fermentable addition is not desired ... particularly if you backsweeten at the time of priming/bottling. Always need to read the ingred. label. The tiny tablet version of Splenda is, I believe, straight sucralose.

I’ve gotten away from sweetening and make a dryer somewhat scrumpy sort of cider ... or when carbonated, either dry or backsweetened with frozen concentrated apple juice (FCAJ).
Often I blend my cider with semi-sweet straight crabapple wine which I make quite a bit of every year as I have a number of crabapple trees. Bittersharp and bittersweet apples and juice are hard to come by and most of what is available commercially is from dessert apples. The crabapple wine with it’s much higher tannin levels and astringency works really well in the cider.

You might consider backsweetening some with FCAJ and then use the pasteurization method on the sticky at the top of this forum titled “easy stove-top pasteurizing”.

And by the way Yukon, welcome to the board.
That's great that you and your girlfriend can do this together.
I wish my O.H. was so inclined. From picking through enjoying - I'd think the whole process is a nice activity for couples.

Great news! Both batches of cider turned out amazing! they keep getting better and better as time goes by! ended up around 12% abv and the clarity is a golden perfection! Really really happy with the results! I now have a batch going from hand pressed Macoun apples, a batch of handpicked raspberry wine, and a hand picked pumpkin apple wine. I've been doing alot more reading and research and my winter project is to build a 3 tier home brew set up, I enjoy wine but I really want to play around with all grain brewing! Cheers to all

-YK