Converting the Frigidaire 7.2 cu ft Chest Freezer

Yakima 728
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pola0502ds said:
Quaffer, I have been looking at other peoples wiring diagrams for the same love temp controller. I just got mine in last night and plan to wire it tonight but on these other diagrams I never see them jumping 2 terminals. Why do you do that?

Also, are there different versions of the tsx-10140 that I should worry about, like making sure that if I use your wiring diagram I need to make sure the love controller is exactly the same. The part number is but I don't know if I can check for something else.
Click to expand...

Terminal 7 of the TSX-10140 supplies power to the controller itself. I jumper it to terminal 8 to provide power for the compressor via the internal relay. Without the jumper you will need another wire for terminal 8.

Before you start wiring you should take some time to understand how it works. It may prevent accidents and possible injury. Follow one wiring diagram, don't mix and match from two diagrams unless you understand how it will affect operation.

There is only one version of the TSX-10140. They will all be identical.
 
Thanks Buddy, got everything wired and working but I am getting a open probe error?

Your right I should completely understand this but I guess i don't, why do I need to wire into the original thermostat? I thought that is what the controller and prob are for? My buddy who does wiring for a living is wondering if we can just completely get rid of the original thermostat.

On the original thermostat should I have it turned all the way up or down?

After you have it wired up and do the first test run, should the freezer kick on right away if the set point is at 45? Or because of some of the settings, will it take a few minutes to turn on?
 
pola0502ds said:
Thanks Buddy, got everything wired and working but I am getting a open probe error?

Your right I should completely understand this but I guess i don't, why do I need to wire into the original thermostat? I thought that is what the controller and prob are for? My buddy who does wiring for a living is wondering if we can just completely get rid of the original thermostat.

On the original thermostat should I have it turned all the way up or down?

After you have it wired up and do the first test run, should the freezer kick on right away if the set point is at 45? Or because of some of the settings, will it take a few minutes to turn on?
Click to expand...

An open probe error will result when there is a break in the wire for the probe, or more likely, there is a bad connection at the controller, terminals 1 and 2. Make sure that you did not connect to terminal 3 using the probe that came with the controller. If I remember correctly there is also a setting in the controller that specifies which type of probe is attached, it should be set to NTC or this error may occur.

The only reason I kept the original thermostat is that it can be used as an on/off switch, just like it did from the factory. The thermostat cannot be set to a high enough temperature to interfere with the new controller, so it does not really matter what you set it to as long as it is on. You can bypass the thermostat and go without it, no problem; you just won’t have an on/off switch.
 
pola0502ds said:
After you have it wired up and do the first test run, should the freezer kick on right away if the set point is at 45? Or because of some of the settings, will it take a few minutes to turn on?
Click to expand...

It is a requirement that temperature controllers above a certain size do not start the compressor immediately after a power outage. The reason is that it will be very hard for the utility company to start all those compressors at once. The start time is a few minutes, and I think it varies between different controllers to give the utility company a soft power-up.
 
Thanks for all your help. I got my collar mounted yesterday and wired up the controller. I checked the connection for the temp probe but I am still getting that same error. If I put that probe in a glass of ice water and it reads 32 degrees, that error will go away. When I take it out of the water and it's just measuring the temp of the air, the error comes back on.

As far as when the compressor will kick on, we thought we still had it wired wrong until after we let it sit for a few minutes and all of a sudden it turned on. It was a beautiful sound!

So, I really have not tested it yet. Can you tell me what the best way to do this is? Because the temperature inside the freezer is at room temperature right now, should i get a glass of water at the same temp to put the probe in? Then adjust my set temperature to just above that set temp?

Also, what I ended up doing was completely removing the thermostat.

One problem i am running into is that on one corner on my lid, the gasket won't sit flush and there is a gap for cold air to escape. I don't think it was sitting flush even before I added the collar. If you look at the gasket you can see it's warped. Anyone know how to correct this? It's a used freezer so it's not likes it under warranty.
 
Quaffer said:
It is a requirement that temperature controllers above a certain size do not start the compressor immediately after a power outage. The reason is that it will be very hard for the utility company to start all those compressors at once. The start time is a few minutes, and I think it varies between different controllers to give the utility company a soft power-up.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of this requirement before and I'm having a hard time believing it's true, and especially so for small residential type refrigerators and freezers. Many of the digital controllers have an anti-short cycle delay feature and it's purpose is to protect the compressor in the event a malfunction of some kind. The ASD setting is typically adjustable from 0-30 minutes. There is no other delay feature that I am aware of as might be a government requirement.
 
Catt22 said:
I've never heard of this requirement before and I'm having a hard time believing it's true, and especially so for small residential type refrigerators and freezers. Many of the digital controllers have an anti-short cycle delay feature and it's purpose is to protect the compressor in the event a malfunction of some kind. The ASD setting is typically adjustable from 0-30 minutes. There is no other delay feature that I am aware of as might be a government requirement.
Click to expand...

Remember that this temperature controller is not meant for home refrigerators or freezers. It is meant for larger commercial units, for where there may be multiple such units. You have noticed this power-on delay in the Love controller, right? Or are you speaking hypothetically without actually owning one of these?

Edit: I am trying to remember where I heard about this. It may not be a requirement after all, perhaps just a good idea that manufacturers implement for this very reason. I first heard about it with respect to large electrical water heaters (in Europe), but I have seen references to it since here in the U.S, and to compressors as well. Compressors are particularly vulnerable to brown-out conditions and it may be for the protection of the compressor primarily.
 
Quaffer said:
Remember that this temperature controller is not meant for home refrigerators or freezers. It is meant for larger commercial units, for where there may be multiple such units. You have noticed this power-on delay in the Love controller, right? Or are you speaking hypothetically without actually owning one of these?
Click to expand...

I have a Johnson A419 and several of the analogs. I also have a Love controller. It's still in the box, but I've read the instructions and manual, so I'm familiar with the settings. There are a number of parameters for the Love controller that can delay cycling, but they can all be set to zero as well.

The Love controller is designed to operate any heating or cooling device up to a 16 amp draw according to the specs. The point being that they are designed for smaller units, not larger industrial equipment.

I'm still not buying the thing about delayed start requirements. Can you point me to the regulation you are referring to. You know, document your claim so to speak? I didn't think so.
 
So what are you guys doing to cover up the back of the controller? the wires are still exposed so I need to do something to at least splash proof it.
 
Catt22 said:
I have a Johnson A419 and several of the analogs. I also have a Love controller. It's still in the box, but I've read the instructions and manual, so I'm familiar with the settings. There are a number of parameters for the Love controller that can delay cycling, but they can all be set to zero as well.

The Love controller is designed to operate any heating or cooling device up to a 16 amp draw according to the specs. The point being that they are designed for smaller units, not larger industrial equipment.

I'm still not buying the thing about delayed start requirements. Can you point me to the regulation you are referring to. You know, document your claim so to speak? I didn't think so.
Click to expand...

If your Love controller works like mine, and I think it will, you will find that the minimum off time is set to zero by default, yet there is a power-on delay of a few minutes. The power-on delay is not mentioned in the manual, nor can it be adjusted.

Larger industrial units are often controlled by contactors which are easily driven by the modest relay in the controller.

If there is a requirement for power-on delay, and there still might be, it would be one set forth by power companies or industrial groups, not the government. I will get back to you on this because all I have right now is from memory.
 
Quaffer said:
A 2x8 on edge stands so tall that the blade does not quite make it halfway through the width of the board. The top of the board is therefore "safe" to hold on to. As long as the board goes straight through there is no problem, but it is difficult to correct for misalignments. The blade binds easily. I do confess being more than a little nervous doing this though. Now that I think of it, I don't recommend people doing this.
Click to expand...

Okay ... I take back my comment and probably owe you an apology ... I didn't realize that you probably have one of these really cool tall rip fences :D

http://www.woodsmithtips.com/2011/05/12/resawing-wider-boards/?autostart=true&utm_source=WoodsmithTips&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4762
 
Quaffer said:
If your Love controller works like mine, and I think it will, you will find that the minimum off time is set to zero by default, yet there is a power-on delay of a few minutes. The power-on delay is not mentioned in the manual, nor can it be adjusted.

Larger industrial units are often controlled by contactors which are easily driven by the modest relay in the controller.

If there is a requirement for power-on delay, and there still might be, it would be one set forth by power companies or industrial groups, not the government. I will get back to you on this because all I have right now is from memory.
Click to expand...

1. I have a brand new Love TS-13010 controller and I just checked it out. There is no delay. All of the parameters (d2 thru c3), which could affect a delay have a default value of zero. Cut power to the controller several times over a period of 10 minutes or so. Nope...no delay at all. None of my other controllers have a delay either.

2. IIRC, this is still a semi-free country. I don't think the power companies have the authority to issue such a broad regulation to manufacturers. Either it's code or it's not. If it is a code type regulation, I would think that it could be located somewhere.. Industrial groups would likely automatically reject the idea on the basis that it lacks flexibility.

3. Yes, small relays can be set up to operate larger relays. No surprise there. These controllers are nothing more than digital thermostats with a built in relay that handles line voltage. Some have more features than others, but they are still just simple digital temperature switches.
 
I posted this at #290, "So what are you guys doing to cover up the back of the controller? the wires are still exposed so I need to do something to at least splash proof it."

Is this even a concern?

So after running my keezer for a few days I noticed that if i have my temp set to 40 degrees the controller reads 35. Is there anyway to correct this? Quaffer, i followed your programming guide to a tee.
 
I just wrapped the part of the controller inside the kegerator with electrical tape.
 
pola0502ds said:
I posted this at #290, "So what are you guys doing to cover up the back of the controller? the wires are still exposed so I need to do something to at least splash proof it."

Is this even a concern?

So after running my keezer for a few days I noticed that if i have my temp set to 40 degrees the controller reads 35. Is there anyway to correct this? Quaffer, i followed your programming guide to a tee.
Click to expand...

1. The Love controllers are designed to be mounted in a panel or some other enclosure. This is not absolutely necessary. The terminals are somewhat covered by a plastic cap on the back, but it won't be moisture proof. Some tape should offer some protection, but I would find some way to cover the back with a box of some kind if going through a collar. It's not a big deal really.

2. The probed temperature reading will often be considerably lower than the set point. I think this is because the freezer cools off faster than it warms back up, so it spends more time at the lower end of the differential range. I have mine set at 44*F right now and the beer is at about 38*F, +/- 1*F, so that's about 6* lower than the set point. This is running with a 10* differential and the probe in the air. Separate thermometer measures the actual beer temp.
 
So you don't put your probe in a glass of water?

What exactly does the differential do?

I was actually thinking about finding a water proof electrical box and mounting it to the back of the control to protect it against possible splashes etc...
 
pola0502ds said:
So you don't put your probe in a glass of water?

What exactly does the differential do?

I was actually thinking about finding a water proof electrical box and mounting it to the back of the control to protect it against possible splashes etc...
Click to expand...

Nope, I have a muffin fan running continuously in the freezer and the probe is in the air stream of the fan. Others report good results with the probe in a container of water, but I've never had good results doing it that way.

The differential is the span in degrees for the on/off of the power relay. Typically when in a cooling mode, the compressor will come on when the probe temp reaches the set point + the differential setting. It will shut off when it reaches the set point. Some digital controllers allow you choose between set point + or set point - the differential. I currently have mine set up to come on at the set point and cool to set point - 10*F. I've been experimenting with wider and wider differentials to see how much it affects the beer temp. The changeable parameters differ with various controllers. I have several Johnson analogs that have a fixed differential and no other adjustable parameters other than the heating or cooling option. They work well even though they lack a lot of flexibility.
 
So to test the temp of your beer, do you just pour a glass and measure it right away?
 
pola0502ds said:
So to test the temp of your beer, do you just pour a glass and measure it right away?
Click to expand...

I do that and I also have a wireless thermometer with the probe inside the keg. I just put the transmitter inside a ziplock bag, sanitize it and float it on top of the beer. The poured beer will typically be several degrees warmer in the glass than it is in the keg. I suppose the lines, shanks, taps and the glass itself warm up the beer some right away as it is poured.
 
Is 3/4" wood not big enough? That is what I just cut. I haven't assembled yet. I am going to glue foam insulation to the wood so hopefully that will help. The wood cost me $50 so I really hope 3/4" will work? Thoughts?

johnodon said:
Awesome! Thanks guys.

Got the collar all cut/joined/wood puttied and sanded. I just need to cut the holes for the shanks, temp contoller anb wires out the back. After that, I start staining. Nice to know that the Red Mahogany truns out looking nice. Maybe it was just the pine I was using that was giving it a purplish look. I have since moved to the Hemlock since my first attempt at a colar was a msierable disaster. I was trying to use a little better quality wood so I bought finished pine boards. The problem is that the are only 3/4" think so I was gluing two of them together around all of the sides. What a mess. Oh well...live and learn. I was a little afraid of the hemlock because I thought I wouldn't be able to find two boards that were straight. First two I picked off of the pile were near perfect. :)

I did have another question: What size hole saw for the shank holes? I think I read somewhere else the 7/8" works best. Can you guys confirm?

Also, for anyone else following this thread: My freezer (like most I would think) has a textured finish...almost rubberized. I found a nice paint that worked perfectly. I originally tried the Rustomeum Appliance Epoxy, but since it was enamel based it seemed to chip off a little easy. I could actually scrath it off with my finger nail after sitting for 2 days. This is what I ended up using (available at Lowes/HD):

http://rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=178

OVERVIEW:
New Rust-Oleum Universal is specifically formulated to work on diverse surfaces including wood, plastic, metal, brick, concrete and even vinyl. The Rust-Oleum Universal advanced spray system can spray from any angle — even upside down.

PRODUCT FEATURES:
For use on interior / exterior environments
One Universal coating for diverse substrates
Ultimate flexibility for extreme applications
Maximum adhesion for demanding substrates
Fast, efficient coverage
Fade and chip resistant
Rust preventative
2008 HANDY Innovation Award Winner​


This stuff is pure awesomeness! :)

Thanks again!

John
Click to expand...
 
crlova2 said:
Is 3/4" wood not big enough? That is what I just cut. I haven't assembled yet. I am going to glue foam insulation to the wood so hopefully that will help. The wood cost me $50 so I really hope 3/4" will work? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'm using 3/4" poplar...

I'm not done with the build yet, but I have attached it to the keezer just to see how it works, and it should be fine.

Some others in this thread have used 1" (actual 3/4") as well...
 
I used 1x6 maple, which is actually 3/4" thick. (Or was it 1x8...don't remember right this second and I'm not at home right now.) Worked just fine. It's been running for, what, a couple years now I think. I don't even have any foam insulation inside the collar. Very, very minimal temperature loss through the wood. Wood is a pretty good insulator in itself.
 
crlova2 said:
Cool. What are people that are connecting the collar to the top using to bind the two together?
Click to expand...

I didn't use the top ... I put my own top on the collar ... but others who have reused the top just used some sort of adhesive (construction or silicone) and/or weatherstripping ... and at least one thread showed some angle brackets or other hardware to keep it secure.
 
crlova2 said:
Cool. What are people that are connecting the collar to the top using to bind the two together?
Click to expand...

Do you mean attaching the collar to the freezer?

I'm using these: http://www.lowes.com/pd_315689-1277...urrentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=stanley+corner+braces

And these: http://www.lowes.com/pd_276821-2191...=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=self+drill+screws

Use the bracket screws (one the two outside holes on the bracket) for the collar, and the self-drill screws (one in the middle hole of the bracket) for attaching to the freezer.
 
For people worrying about the thickness of their wood. You can make the frame out of 3/4" thick wood but if you still have a concern you can cut some small strips and attach it along each edge, top and bottom. This will build it out and give the top and bottom more surface area. My collar is 1 1/2" thick because i wanted my collar to overhang the freezer body a 1/2" on the front face and both sides. The back of the collar sits flush with the back of the freezer.. That way i don't have to worry about the reveal being consistent and square.
 
Catt22 said:
I do that and I also have a wireless thermometer with the probe inside the keg. I just put the transmitter inside a ziplock bag, sanitize it and float it on top of the beer. The poured beer will typically be several degrees warmer in the glass than it is in the keg. I suppose the lines, shanks, taps and the glass itself warm up the beer some right away as it is poured.
Click to expand...

how long is the probe on the transmitter? thats pretty cool. You think if you put it in a plastic back it would just float and the probe would not be in the beer providing correct temps.

I like your idea.
 
pola0502ds said:
For people worrying about the thickness of their wood. You can make the frame out of 3/4" thick wood but if you still have a concern you can cut some small strips and attach it along each edge, top and bottom. This will build it out and give the top and bottom more surface area. (snip)
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I did on the bottom of mine. That also allowed me to create a lip for the gasket, since my collar is hinged.
 
Has anyone had to replace their gasket? I purchase a used freezer and on 1 corner of the lid, the gasket it raising up which doesn't create a good seal, I can almost see inside the freezer, it's that bad. I was thinking about removing the gasket and putting a shim in that location to push it down. Does anyone know if that will work?
 
pola0502ds said:
how long is the probe on the transmitter? thats pretty cool. You think if you put it in a plastic back it would just float and the probe would not be in the beer providing correct temps.

I like your idea.
Click to expand...

There is no probe on the transmitter. It's wireless as in RF. The transmitter is in a plastic zip lok bag floating on top of the beer. The only thing separating the beer from the transmitter is the wall of the thin plastic bag. I have a muffin fan running continuously in the freezer, so the entire keg should be of fairly uniform temperature, even at the surface. Close enough for me in any case. I have indoor/outdoor thermometers in all of my refrigerators and freezers. I like the min/max memory feature they have.
 
I got all my parts in from keg connection yesterday and I am going to install everything tonight, does it matter what the length of my hoses are for the co2 and beer line? I was just thinking about cutting enough hose to go from each connection plus enough slack on each connection so that if I need to move things around in any direction, I can. Is there anything else to take into consideration that would make me want to cut my lines longer or shorter?
 
The gas lines just need to be long enough so you can maneuver them and/or around them comfortably.

The beer line length does make a difference. Mine are six feet. That works well for me.
 
You know what i don't understand, I know they make a faucet that attaches directly to the liquid out disconnect that is attached a soda keg. There is no hose attached to it. How do they get it to work well?

Last night I hooked up my first keg and poured a glass. I first set it to 5 PSI and it came out nice but a little slow. Then i kicked it up to 10psi and it came out nice but a little faster. I really don't think anyone needs those charts because all you have to do is experiment. Those charts are most likely really useful for people who install draught systems that are rather large and where the kegs are stored a long distance from the faucets.
 
Catt22 said:
1. I have a brand new Love TS-13010 controller and I just checked it out. There is no delay. All of the parameters (d2 thru c3), which could affect a delay have a default value of zero. Cut power to the controller several times over a period of 10 minutes or so. Nope...no delay at all. None of my other controllers have a delay either.

2. IIRC, this is still a semi-free country. I don't think the power companies have the authority to issue such a broad regulation to manufacturers. Either it's code or it's not. If it is a code type regulation, I would think that it could be located somewhere.. Industrial groups would likely automatically reject the idea on the basis that it lacks flexibility.

3. Yes, small relays can be set up to operate larger relays. No surprise there. These controllers are nothing more than digital thermostats with a built in relay that handles line voltage. Some have more features than others, but they are still just simple digital temperature switches.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Well, there is the possibility that I am wrong about this. I will check my controller again. My information is all hearsay, so I cannot say for sure.

I searched the web a little and I came up with a few items. This page says that the delay protects the compressor after a power outage (read 3rd paragraph).

This PDF page talks about power outage protection for the compressor also (1st paragraph).

This temperature controller information page says "Automatic Delay Restart (ADR)
Auto restart delay: Ensures on line quality after power failure, decreases power loading, and protects the compressor."

I think my information was basically correct, except for the "requirement" part.
 
Quaffer said:
Hmm. Well, there is the possibility that I am wrong about this. I will check my controller again. My information is all hearsay, so I cannot say for sure.

I searched the web a little and I came up with a few items. This page says that the delay protects the compressor after a power outage (read 3rd paragraph).

This PDF page talks about power outage protection for the compressor also (1st paragraph).

This temperature controller information page says "Automatic Delay Restart (ADR)
Auto restart delay: Ensures on line quality after power failure, decreases power loading, and protects the compressor."

I think my information was basically correct, except for the "requirement" part.
Click to expand...

I thought you said that you use a Love controller (or Ranco or Johnson) and that they had a built in default delay, so it should be easy for you to check.

The first link is completely irrelevant to our discussion. That link lists some high tech $16,000 freezers. Who the hell owns one of those anyway?

Can't open the second link, but also irrelevant. Most of the controllers have an adjustable parameter for anti-short cycle delay among others. We are talking about a mandated built in unavoidable start up delay.

The third link shows another obscure temperature controller similar to the Love's I guess. I did not bother to read the specs all the way through, but it looks similar. Again, nothing new here and nothing that isn't addressed by adjustable parameters on the Love's, Johnson & Ranco's.

It's not important. I was only curious about the non-existent regulation regarding start up delays built into these timers. I think I have the answer now. Thanks for your trouble anyway. That must have been a lot of work.
 
Catt22 said:
2. IIRC, this is still a semi-free country. I don't think the power companies have the authority to issue such a broad regulation to manufacturers. Either it's code or it's not. If it is a code type regulation, I would think that it could be located somewhere.. Industrial groups would likely automatically reject the idea on the basis that it lacks flexibility.
Click to expand...

boywithknife.jpg


I have designed a lot of things that get plugged into the walls in a lot of countries.

There are some horrible requirements if it is medical equipment. They don't want the patient getting shocked.
Military has EMP for when atomic bombs go off in the upper atmosphere, and TEMPEST requirements so the Russians can't tell what key was hit on an IMB Selectric typewriter.

There are some double insulation requirements that kick in to get a UL sticker, and sell the stuff.

But home brew electronics has one big requirement, not to put power back on the line during a power outage. They don't want line men getting electrocuted by your windmill.
 

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