Gluten Free Birthday Barleywine

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InfiniteThought

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Hey all, I am looking for input on a partial mash barley wine that I want to brew next month, here it is let me know what you think.

Minimash
6#millet
3#red rice
mash 145-150 for 1 hour
sparge 165

4#dememera sugar
3# honey
3# brown sugar
1#5oz rice malt syrup (the size the jar comes in)

boil for 2 hours
2 oz Zeus 60 min
4 oz Mt. Hood 30 min
2 oz Cascade 10 min
2 oz Cascade flameout
2 oz Mt. Hood flameout

beer calculus says OG 1.141 and 60.7 IBU, which is what I want.
my real questions are yeast and flavoring additives. I think that nottinghams would be good and I will have a cake available to use but I was wondering if it would work to mix two strains together, ideally to use the Nottinghams cake and a starter of T-58 to make it a little more interesting. I was planning on adding CL23 wine yeast in secondary to finish it off.

as far as flavoring go I want mild, mellow complementary flavors, I was thinking grains of paradise (<1gm) and a few oak cube that has been soaked in red wine.

let me have it, terrible idea?
 
I have a whole discussion of "multiple yeastings" in a Barelywine here, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/he...emorial-5-year-aged-barleywine-recipe-195096/

Specifically posts 69, 74 and 78 talk about it

I will say, I am not a fan of notty on a good day, I would be less inclined to thing it will do a good job for such a big beer.....

Oh, btw...we need to come up with a new name for this style, if there's no Barley in it, it's not a Barlewine is it? :D
 
Depending on your answer to David's question, it seems like you have too many simple sugars and not enough of the more complex stuff to pull this off. If you have found a way to get a bunch of sugar from the grains, then maybe this will work. I just worry about this tasting like hot fiery hooch from being very strong and very dry.

I would add more brown rice syrup or maybe some sorghum. I find myself not quite trusting what types of sugars are being produced in these mini mashes, especially for something this big.

Names... Fauxbarleywine?
 
Oh, btw...we need to come up with a new name for this style, if there's no Barley in it, it's not a Barlewine is it? :D

Hah, nice!

Do you know if the grains will convert or not? You might consider adding some maltodextrine to up the body, with 7# of sugar this is bound to be a pretty thin beer.
 
Hah, nice!

Do you know if the grains will convert or not? You might consider adding some maltodextrine to up the body, with 7# of sugar this is bound to be a pretty thin beer.

I dont think maltodextrin will be necessary on this big of a beer, you just need to reduce the amount of simple sugars and increase the amount of more complex ones.

Normally a good idea, but there is no reason to use a majority of things that thin the beer and then use a thickening agent when you could just use things that taste better to begin with. It is obvious you are trying to avoid sorghum, and I understand why, but you have to have something to replace it with that ISNT a simple sugar.
 
An idea I have been testing out is some lower fermentability simple sugars as well, they leave behind some interesting flavor elements and do not have the thinning effect of other sugars.

These guys are what I use.

Oh, and that particular one is actually 160SRM, their website isnt the best. Oh, and I know it says highly fermentable...but it's about 69% fermentable, which isnt high in my book. I just used it for the first time in a couple beers, so I won't know the results for a bit.
 
wow, a ton of responses thanks.
These grains were going to be raw, as every time I try to malt millet it starts fermenting whole instead of sprouting. I add enzymes to the mash, but what I get out is not very fermentable.

So I could trade the brown sugar for Candi sugar, sounds like a good idea. And combining yeasts looks like a go!
 
as far as the name goes I agree that something different is needed. Alewine? nah.. well, I'll think about it.
 
Gluten free beer is a marketer's nightmare. None of the ingredients sound good in any way and the word 'gluten' sucks too. As someone who does this professionally, I suggest you stick to names that utilize actual beer terminology and change it to be imitation or fake. Seriously, no one wants to drink anything with the word millet or sorghum in the name.

Also, I think that switching the brown sugar for dark candi will help some, but I feel you still need more.

Also, don't forget yeast nutrient, or not much will happen.
 
right, yeast nutrient. I have been adding a teaspoon of brags free aminos solution to each one of my beers. Its actually meant for human consumption, but contains a huge amount of free aminos. seems to work for lighter beers but I will get a real nutrient for this HG brew.
 
An idea I have been testing out is some lower fermentability simple sugars as well, they leave behind some interesting flavor elements and do not have the thinning effect of other sugars.

These guys are what I use.

Oh, and that particular one is actually 160SRM, their website isnt the best. Oh, and I know it says highly fermentable...but it's about 69% fermentable, which isnt high in my book. I just used it for the first time in a couple beers, so I won't know the results for a bit.

I wonder how caramelized honey would taste.
 
If I replaced the brown sugar with Candi sugar, and carmelized the honey that would make for a much fuller beer. Think its enough?

edit: posted this before I saw your last post. so if its to unfermentable can I just caramelized less of it? say, 1 lb caramalized honey, 2 lb not?
 
If I replaced the brown sugar with Candi sugar, and carmelized the honey that would make for a much fuller beer. Think its enough?

But there is more to it than just the level of fermentables, you want something that tastes like how you want to malt backbone of the beer to taste.

The simple sugar will taste like nothing, or plain alcohol burn.
The carm. honey will taste like...whatever that tastes like.
The Dark Sugar will have some sweet fruit/prune/raisin notes.
The BRS has a faint flavor, difficult to describe, but sort of like overcooked white rice. Described by my GF as "Bisquick".

So, does this sound like a beer you would want to drink? If so, then just give us a new recipe and we can help you make slight adjustments to get the FG where you want it to be.
 
I'm curious about the issue with mouthfeel. As I mentioned in my own thread I've made wine for years and routinely add as much if not more simple sugars to attain the target OG without having a thin wine. I generally shoot for dry or nearly so. Mouthfeel in wine is produced by glycerin, phenols, tannins as well as non-fermentable sugars. I can make a wine that has an FG of 1.000 or pretty close that has 12-14 percent ABV and still have plenty of mouthfeel. Is this not the case with beer? Although looking at the recipe it does seem a little light on the complex flavor component side with simple sugars weighing in at almost the same as the grains.

As for names would it be inappropriate to add "imperial" before it's designation if it's an Ale or something like "dopple" if it's a Lager? These indicate higher gravity without referencing the actual ingredients. Just thinking out loud.

Adam
 
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Too me, a rich, full wine would be a thin mouthfeel for a beer. It is just a different beverage in my eyes and hard to compare though. Wine routinely has lots of sucrose mixed with the piles of fructose, at least in fruit wines, whereas beer is routinely 100% grain malt. That being said, perhaps the mouthfeel of a simple sugar dominated beer wont bother you, but I think a "wine-like" mouthfeel on a beer would feel too thin to me.

In any case, to add mouthfeel, why don't you toss some oats in your mash? I also hear bananas can do wonders and maybe better for you with your wine roots.

Imperial/Doppel/Double would work, but yours is more like a Quad, but that of course makes it sound Belgian, which it isnt.
 
Have you guys seen this?

I'm actually considering doing this on Sunday along with the barleywine.

I just wonder how fermentable that is...seems like it would be ultra-sweet if it really loses all that fermentability.
 
I just wonder how fermentable that is...seems like it would be ultra-sweet if it really loses all that fermentability.

I don't know, sadly Johnny Max appears to have shifted interest away from brewing to evidently, survivalism, and hasn't updated much of his brew related stuff, especially the making of the brochet. If I do do it, at least I can follow up for folks.
 
unfortunately I cannot eat oats either :(
I am going to have to think this over and post a revised recipe. Thanks for all the help, Ill be back later with the recipe.
 
I don't know, sadly Johnny Max appears to have shifted interest away from brewing to evidently, survivalism, and hasn't updated much of his brew related stuff, especially the making of the brochet. If I do do it, at least I can follow up for folks.

http://www.mrbeerfans.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=166510

This guy seems to be a little more measurement oriented than the guy with a goat next to a firepit.

He also says his ended up at 7.3% ABV and he didn't cook his near as long as the other.
 
unfortunately I cannot eat oats either :(
I am going to have to think this over and post a revised recipe. Thanks for all the help, Ill be back later with the recipe.

Hmmm...is this an elective non-eating? Otherwise, there are gluten-free oats you know...

In any case, let us know, we will be here discussing roastied honey.
 
it appears through experimentation with GF certified oats that I cannot tolerate them at all. None of this is buy choice...been a diagnosed celiac for 2 years and was undiagnosed for many years before that.
 
it appears through experimentation with GF certified oats that I cannot tolerate them at all. None of this is buy choice...been a diagnosed celiac for 2 years and was undiagnosed for many years before that.

Let me guess...diagnosed with anemia. ;) Just be glad you live on the west coast...or else you might be dead. I went through this with my mom in Portland about 15 years ago...

You must be really sensitive. Looks like no white labs yeast for you.
 

How cool is that?! I'm going to have to pay attention to these GF threads more closely there's some really fascinating things being done to push the limits of GF brewing, and brewing in general. I just popped into this thread because it's a B-Day Brew (since that's in my thought process these days) and stayed because DKershner is such a bloody brilliant guy to read his posts!

Since I like to experiment anyway, a lot of stuff people are doing out of necessity on this topic, gets my creative brewing juices flowing.
 
Thanks for the link to the banana explanation, that sounds perfect. I like a little fruit flavors and a faint banana will go nicely i think.
UDATED RECIPE

Minimash
6#millet
3#red rice
1/2# whole quinoa
mash 145-150 for 1 hour
sparge 165

4#dememera sugar
1# caramelized honey
2# honey
3# Amber Candi sugar
1#5oz rice malt syrup (the size the jar comes in)
1 banana

boil for 2 hours
2 oz Zeus 60 min
4 oz Mt. Hood 30 min
2 oz Cascade 10 min
2 oz Cascade flameout
2 oz Mt. Hood flameout

edit: plus yeast nutrient
 
How cool is that?! I'm going to have to pay attention to these GF threads more closely there's some really fascinating things being done to push the limits of GF brewing, and brewing in general. I just popped into this thread because it's a B-Day Brew (since that's in my thought process these days) and stayed because DKershner is such a bloody brilliant guy to read his posts!

Since I like to experiment anyway, a lot of stuff people are doing out of necessity on this topic, gets my creative brewing juices flowing.

Thanks Revvy, but I really have to point credit towards all these folks in the forum. I'm here to help out my mother, sister, and girlfriend, but I get most of my ideas from people more daring than me that hang out here.

And yes, this is by far the most experimental subforum on HBT.

Cheers to the GF Brewers! :mug:
 
soo many new ideas, its great!

edit: in order to keep the OG where I had it, I have to change the 3# candi to 3# 10oz. what are the real differences between the different types of Candi?
 
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