Temp control how long is REALLY needed?

So I know everyone is going to say temp control should be thru out the whole primary fermentation. I was just wondering what peoples feelings are on how long it is REALLY necessary? Is one week ok then move out of temp control. My problem is im tryin to build up the pipeline quicker but only have room for 2 primary vessels in my temp control. Any thoughts would be helpful.

It's only necessary for the first few hours of active fermentation. Since there's always the possibility of lag time, I recommend folks just maintain temp for the first week. After that you can let it warm up.

Yeast only produce the off flavors during high temps, when they are fermenting afterwards it's not crucial.

In fact letting the beer then warm up for a week or however long will help the yeast clean up those byprodcuts that lead to off flavors. In articles about diacetyl cleanup in ales, it just recommend letting the beer go to room temp for a week on the yeast.

Yeah first couple days until things sort of die down, that's my experience.

I use my temp control fermentation chamber for the first week of fermentation, then move my fermenter to an interior closet where it stays at about 70 degrees for about 2 more weeks after that.

Yeah, 72 hours from activity is probably fine; a week gives you more security. How much higher is the non-controlled area? You would probably be OK, but I wouldn't go over 70F, even after a week.

yeah it would be in the basement so it would be in the mid sixties most the time. Thanks for all the feedback...now to get working!

Revvy said:

It's only necessary for the first few hours of active fermentation. Since there's always the possibility of lag time, I recommend folks just maintain temp for the first week. After that you can let it warm up.

Yeast only produce the off flavors during high temps, when they are fermenting afterwards it's not crucial.

In fact letting the beer then warm up for a week or however long will help the yeast clean up those byprodcuts that lead to off flavors. In articles about diacetyl cleanup in ales, it just recommend letting the beer go to room temp for a week on the yeast.

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Not to hijack this thread, but let's say i do my initial fermentation at 68 degrees then I take it out of my chamber and bring it in to my house that is always a tad chilly in the winter say 65 or 64 ish will that stall or drop out whatever yeast are still working?

Thanks

a slight drop like that shouldnt kill off your yeast (Check the temp range) You fermentation might slow up a bit. Relax

Let's say i do my initial fermentation at 68 degrees then I take it out of my chamber and bring it in to my house that is always a tad chilly in the winter say 65 or 64 ish will that stall or drop out whatever yeast are still working?

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A typical ale yeast for an average gravity beer can ferment down to about 58 F. Room/ambiant temp is always about 3-5 degrees cooler than the actual fermentation temp inside the fermenter, so a typical yeast would be good down to about 55 F or so.

All yeast have their optimal temps printed on the package or on the manufacturer's Web sites.

So to answer your question, the mid 60s would probably be just fine, but check the optimum temps of your particular yeast strand to be sure.

RugenBrau said:

a slight drop like that shouldnt kill off your yeast (Check the temp range) You fermentation might slow up a bit. Relax

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Totally relaxed dood just asking a question, Ive got a small chamber that will only hold one carboy and I like the idea of freeing up the space and being able to brew more...

Revvy said:

It's only necessary for the first few hours of active fermentation. Since there's always the possibility of lag time, I recommend folks just maintain temp for the first week. After that you can let it warm up.

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I hope you meant a few days. Temp control is also important before active fermentation starts. When fermentation slows down (after a few days) it is not as critical.

TopherM said:

A typical ale yeast for an average gravity beer can ferment down to about 58 F. Room/ambiant temp is always about 3-5 degrees cooler than the actual fermentation temp inside the fermenter, so a typical yeast would be good down to about 55 F or so.

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I disagree. A lot of yeast will go dormant below 65F, very few ale yeasts will work below 60. And when active fermentation slows down, there is little to no self heating.

I disagree. A lot of yeast will go dormant below 65F, very few ale yeasts will work below 60

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I ferment most of my ales at a temp controlled 63, and have never had any issues with dormant yeast. Most common ale yeasts, like S-04 (59F-75F), S-05 (59F-75F), Nottingham (57F-70F), and Wyeast 1056 (60F-72F) list their OPTIMUM fermentation temps well below 65, so I think you are mistaken.

BoundForBeer said:

So I know everyone is going to say temp control should be thru out the whole primary fermentation. I was just wondering what peoples feelings are on how long it is REALLY necessary? Is one week ok then move out of temp control.

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this is my s.o.p. 5-7 days under low- to mid-range temps, then another 5-7 days at least for clean-up in a closet around 69-70.

TopherM said:

I ferment most of my ales at a temp controlled 63, and have never had any issues with dormant yeast. Most common ale yeasts, like S-04 (59F-75F), S-05 (59F-75F), Nottingham (57F-70F), and Wyeast 1056 (60F-72F) list their OPTIMUM fermentation temps well below 65, so I think you are mistaken.

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+1 I don't ferment anything ABOVE 65.

TopherM said:

I ferment most of my ales at a temp controlled 63, and have never had any issues with dormant yeast. Most common ale yeasts, like S-04 (59F-75F), S-05 (59F-75F), Nottingham (57F-70F), and Wyeast 1056 (60F-72F) list their OPTIMUM fermentation temps well below 65, so I think you are mistaken.

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trent said:

+1 I don't ferment anything ABOVE 65.

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WLP002 (64-72), WLP005 (64-72), WLP007 (64-72), WLP320 (64-70), WLP500 (65-72), WLP510 (66-72), WLP515 (67-70), WLP530 (66-72), WLP540 (66-72), WLP545 (66-72), WLP550 (68-78), WLP565 (68-75), WLP566 (68-78), WLP570 (68-75), 3711 (65-77), 3538 (65-80), (65-75), 1099 (64-75), 1318 (64-74), and probably many others.

"A lot of yeast will go dormant below 65F"

Those strains don't necessarily go dormant below the low-temperature posted. Those are recommended temperatures where you get the healthiest fermentation with minimal off-flavors.

If you go below those temperatures there is a possibility that some of the yeast will flocc and fermentation will slow down... but it won't just knock your yeast out.

Of those yeast you've listed I've used WLP005, WLP320, and #1099 at 60*F and they all came out great with no halt in fermentation.

It should also be noted that the yeast strains you listed are almost all abbey, trappist or saison yeast which all benefit for warmer-than-average temperatures. Those are most certainly specialty cases and statistical outliers in this case.

Yeah, I ferment at 63 or 62 for most ale yeasts. Getting temperatures down from room temp (67-68) to mid-low 60's was the biggest improvement I made when starting out. Optimum temperature for yeast health is often 70 or so, but unless you're fermenting in a tall 100bbl conical under pressure I wouldn't recommend it.

Reno_eNVy said:

Those strains don't necessarily go dormant below the low-temperature posted.

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Plus, way below ferm temp MAY cause different temps than the usual expected.

Calder said:

WLP002 (64-72), WLP005 (64-72), WLP007 (64-72), WLP320 (64-70), WLP500 (65-72), WLP510 (66-72), WLP515 (67-70), WLP530 (66-72), WLP540 (66-72), WLP545 (66-72), WLP550 (68-78), WLP565 (68-75), WLP566 (68-78), WLP570 (68-75), 3711 (65-77), 3538 (65-80), (65-75), 1099 (64-75), 1318 (64-74), and probably many others.

"A lot of yeast will go dormant below 65F"

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I've noticed that White Labs temp ranges generally start at a higher temperature than Wyeasts comparable strain.

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White labs yeast has temps listed higher than you should ferment. For example WLP001 I would never let get out of the 60's to prevent off flavors. From what I've heard, the guy that runs White labs knows his yeast, but doesn't know beer as well. I've heard that a few times from experienced brew guys.

I've let WLP001 get as low as 66* without slowing fermentation too much, but it does slow down a bit. I still keg beer after 2 weeks of fermentation when the temps get down to 66*. In all honesty, I would begin to worry about things slowing down, not necessarily stopping if temps got below 64*. I've just noticed that I still see little yeast missiles rising up well after a week of fermentation when temps get down to 66*, but they stop and things settle out by 2 weeks while using the WLP001.

Another thing I tend to do in lower temps is get a whirlpool going by shaking the carboy in circles once or twice a day during the first 3-4 days of fermentation. That helps (at least in my mind) keep the yeast up in the activity a bit more which in theory (in my mind, of course) keeps a more vigorous fermentation going. I know it makes me feel better about the low temps.

Your highly flocculant yeasts (e.g., most British ales) will tend to drop quickly if there is a several degree drop in temp and this can very well leave you with an under-attenuated brew. The less flocculant yeasts don't have quite the same reaction, or at least they are slow to drop so they can keep metabolizing to some degree.

A swamp cooler with an aquarium heater, is a cheap and simple way to maintain temps later on if you want to free up the better-controlled space for other brews. Winter is really easier to deal with as far as temp control as far as I'm concerned.

It all really depends on the yeast, it's characteristics, and what you're looking for. Every yeast likes a different temperature range and produces different flavors at different points in that range. If you want esters ferment a little warmer. If you want a nice clean beer, ferment as low as a yeast is happy with. You have to kinda get it on with your yeast. Stay in tune with it's feelings. If it's not happy being cold, give it a little swirl and warm it up. If it's all angry and hot, cool it down. I personally am not a fan of esters in most any beer so I pitch below what I know a yeast likes and feel it out from there. Slow and low is the tempo in my chambers.

Spintab said:

You have to kinda get it on with your yeast. Stay in tune with it's feelings.

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I just want to ferment with it, not marry it.

Lennie said:

I just want to ferment with it, not marry it.

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Oh see, now you've gone and hurt its feelings. Good luck digging yourself out of that hole.

Just don't start smiling at the carboy opening when the lights are dim.

I've just been able to control my temperatures more exactly and have lowered the temperature to about 62-64 F(for most yeasts) and have found much less off flavors in these beers.
For weissbier (wheat) the temperature makes a huge difference, I've never done as good weissbier as my latest batches.
I've tried WLP002, WLP004, BC1010 and BC3068 with low temperature and all worked just fine.

bourgeoisbee said:

. . . but I wouldn't go over 70F, even after a week.

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Can anyone elaborate on this (specifically, the problems with higher temps)?

My only options are (1) temperature control at the cost of tying up my kegerator, or (2) room temp @ 75+ F. Obviously, I'd like to be able to move my beer out of the kegerator as soon as possible, so I can get back to drinking from it.

chally said:

Can anyone elaborate on this (specifically, the problems with higher temps)?

My only options are (1) temperature control at the cost of tying up my kegerator, or (2) room temp @ 75+ F. Obviously, I'd like to be able to move my beer out of the kegerator as soon as possible, so I can get back to drinking from it.

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Most beers of lower gravity are going to finish the height of fermentation before a week goes by. You're really don't have to worry about temperature control so much at that point. Actually, at that point higher temperatures will make the yeast more active which lets them clean up after themselves faster.

chally said:

Can anyone elaborate on this (specifically, the problems with higher temps)?

My only options are (1) temperature control at the cost of tying up my kegerator, or (2) room temp @ 75+ F. Obviously, I'd like to be able to move my beer out of the kegerator as soon as possible, so I can get back to drinking from it.

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I don't have a kegerator or a fridge and I'm able to keep my brews in the low to mid 60's (even in Georgia during the summer without much air conditioning). It's rather simple and very cheap.

Just buy a big plastic container from Walmart or target (they sell some for like 15 Bucks that will hold something like 10 gallons). Fill it about halfway with water, put your fermenter in the water and then throw frozen 2liters in the water in the morning and in the evening. Just by doing that you can ferment in the 60's no problem. You could get to the 50's, but you'd need to change the ice every couple of hours so this only works if you are at home most of the day.

chally said:

Can anyone elaborate on this (specifically, the problems with higher temps)?

My only options are (1) temperature control at the cost of tying up my kegerator, or (2) room temp @ 75+ F. Obviously, I'd like to be able to move my beer out of the kegerator as soon as possible, so I can get back to drinking from it.

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It's not ideal for certain styles of beer, but it's not dramatic if you plan on drinking the beer fast. Most milds and bitters get insipid if they are left too long at higher temperatures because the yeast will clean up desirable compounds (fruity esters, most notably), but we're talking about more than a week or two here. Hop character also fades faster if the beer is kept hot, but it's not as if your beer will be ruined or anything. It's mostly lower gravities that suffer from higher storage temperatures.

Getting the beer off the yeast (gasp) might alleviate the problem somewhat by bringing the yeast population down, but for home brewers, I wouldn't be (that) much concerned with it: I just fine and package earlier instead of opting for a secondary, but again, I brew 1.042 and below stuff 99% of the time. Unless you make a habit of leaving your kegs of lager and pale ale in 80F+ rooms for a few weeks before tapping them, there's not much to worry about.

I keep the beer in a water bath until at least day 4 out of 5 for primary. Then I pull it out and let it warm for the yeast to finish. Then I put it back in for conditioning around 68 for another 3 weeks. Helps with full fermentation and conditioning.

Most of my ales are originally British in style so I cool in to slightly cooler than my target temp or right at my target temp and hold for the first 3-4 days at a certain temp, or let it free rise to a set point on the Johnson digital and hold there for 3-4 days.

Then, generally, I pull it from the fridge and let it free rise to whatever room temp is. Helps drive attenuation and clean up, then on to packaging after 2-3 weeks. I don't cold crash because I'm lazy and hate putting the bucket back in the dorm fridge any more times than I have to.

BoundForBeer said:

So I know everyone is going to say temp control should be thru out the whole primary fermentation. I was just wondering what peoples feelings are on how long it is REALLY necessary? Is one week ok then move out of temp control. My problem is im tryin to build up the pipeline quicker but only have room for 2 primary vessels in my temp control. Any thoughts would be helpful.

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Like most have said, control it for the first week. At that point, you are probably 90% finished fermenting anyway. From there, it may act as a diacetyl rest, as well. If the options are to delay brewing or pull it out after a week, I would take it out. Temperature control is most critical in the first few days. After that, it's left in there because I really don't have a driver to take it out. Now, if you are dry hopping, I would keep it cool. If you are just waiting for it to finish fermentation, pull a sample. If your final gravity is within a few points of target, pull it out. You're good.

I found this thread while trying to answer a similar question... although my circumstance appears to be more extreme: I have an unfinished basement in St. Paul, MN. Right now the ambient temp has already dropped below 60 degrees, and I expect that by mid-January it will be close to 45. I just brewed a Belgian Tripel, and to keep the yeast in the happy range (75-80) I bought a heat jacket and I don't want to buy another. I won't transfer until the FG has been reached, but then recipe I'm using suggests a month in the secondary. So, to my question:
If I want to use a secondary to clarify the beer after fermentation is done, is there anything I need to worry about in regards to flavor when the temps will most certainly force the yeast to go dormant?

* related: if we get a cold enough winter, I may try lagering in my basement with nothing but a carboy and my basement floor. Pretty excited about that.