Belgian Dubbel from NB

Has anyone tried this kit?
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/belgian-dubbel-all-grain-kit.html

It will be my 1st AG batch (Deathbrewer Method) and I wanted to do a Dubbel. Has anyone here done this kit or have suggestions on making a simple Belgian dubbel.

BTW I have some wyeast 1214 from a previous batch I intend to use.

That kit is a very good dubbel. I used their recipe as a base for my dubbel and only changed a few things. Turned out excellent.

Thanks for the info.

What did you change and why?

Ok looking at your Monk Snot recipe I see you also used Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes, oats, and clear Candi.

Still would like to know why though

Interestingly I just listed to a podcast that did an experiment testing all of the different candi sugars/syrups and according to the testers the D2 dark syrup seemed to provide the most flavors. I suppose each candi sugar has its own application.

Thats helpful but where is this podcast?

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio

Look for the title Mmmm Belgian Sugar Experiment. Feb. 25th.

They basically did a side by side comparison of corn sugar, rock candy, syrups, etc.

I already subscribe to this podcast, its actually very good. I am just behind on podcasts lately because I lost my earbuds.

That will be my next episode. I'd still like to know why Suthrncomfrt1884 used clear instead of D1 or D2

I too am looking to brew a dubbel or a quad. I love the rochefort 8 and St. Bernardus abt 12. I am in the same boat as you...trying to find a good recipe. Have some Wyeast 3787 from a patersbier I am looking to pitch on.

It is the ommegang abbey that made me want to start brewing my own beer, well that and its high $$ price.

I figured even if I could get close brewing it myself I could have heaven in my fridge anytime for cheap.

I have only done 3 beer batches, and the quality of my Goat Sass Belgian Blonde partial mash has me convinced I can do a good dubbel. Who knew my Goat Sass would be sooo tasty

Have you seen this recipe?

Ommegang Abbey Ale Clone

1074 OG 1013 FG
22 IBU 27 SRM 7.8% ABV

5 lb. 9.6 oz. Pilsner malt
2.25 lb. aromatic malt
1 lb. 6.4 oz. crystal 20
2.25 lb. Briess Special Roast malt (50 Lovibond)
2.66 lb. Corn Sugar
6.25 AAU Styrian Goldings (60 min) (1.25 oz. of 5% alpha acids)
.33 oz. Styrian Goldings (0 min)
.25 oz. Curacao Orange Peel
.5 oz. Licorice root
Wyeast 1214 or cultured Ommegang yeast

Step mash with a 10 min. rest @ 113, 10 min @ 144, 15 min. @ 154 and 15 min. @ 162, and 5 min @ 169. Boil for 90 min, adding corn sugar at start of boil. Add orange peel and licorice for final 15 min of boil. Ferment at 76-84 (yes, that hot) Condition for 2 weeks at 28 degrees. Carbonate to 3 vols.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12272

electronjunkie said:

I already subscribe to this podcast, its actually very good. I am just behind on podcasts lately because I lost my earbuds.

That will be my next episode. I'd still like to know why Suthrncomfrt1884 used clear instead of D1 or D2

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I didn't want to change the flavor by adding darker sugars. Plus, when I added darker sugars to my beer software, it was giving me a higher SRM than I wanted. It was a waste of money since you can just use plain sugar instead. As for my other changes, I added oats to try and improve head retention and body. I added more candi sugar and one pound of extra base malt strictly because I wanted a higher gravity. The hops were what I had on hand. The ardennes is a personal preference and I added after fermentation had already started hoping to get the finishing flavors of ardennes but the power of 1214 to get through the initial fermentation.

Hope this helps. The beer turned out great, but I would probably use a secondary fermentation of a few months the next time around.

OK I did my homework and it sounds like the D2 or D1 syrups are what make a Dubbel.

Why is it then that both the Ommegang Abbey Dubbel clones don't have any but use clear or corn Sugar

I will likely brew the Monk Snot next as it is the simplest, and according to "Brew Like a Monk" thats how they do it. But I am just a noob and I am learning and what do I know?

Anyway I'll probably brew both but the Monk Snot is the one I'll probably do next.

Another good thread to take a look at is the Westlerveten 12 group brew.
They used 2 recipes. 1 with specialty grains and one with a simple grain bill. I think if you go with the simple grain bill (just pale malt and pils I think) then you need the D2. When you use specialty grains then you can get by without the flavors derived by the dark sugar/syrup.
I am in the same boat as you. Trying to nail my first dubbel. Going to crack open a st. Bernardus prior 8 now to start this adventure!

Another good thread to take a look at is the Westlerveten 12 group brew.

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Do you have a link for that? I tried googling that and got nothin.

I tried three Belgian Dubbels this weekend, the Chimay Red and a couple others. I still have not tasted one that I think is as good as the Ommegang Abbey.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/westvleteren-12-group-brew-swap-121429/

Yeah I see that ommengang abbey for like 7 bucks or so. I guess I should give it a try. Seems like a pretty good deal.

Got everything I need to do a 2.5 gal batch of the Abbey Dubbel clone you posted here MilwaukeeBrewGuy

We'll see how it goes!

IMO, I do not think that recipe would turn out anything remotely like the Abbey Ale. The orange peel and licorice root really seem out of place, and no dark malts or Candi syrup are used. I wonder if the recipe is actually more appropriate for a Rare Vos clone.

IMO, I do not think that recipe would turn out anything remotely like the Abbey Ale. The orange peel and licorice root really seem out of place, and no dark malts or Candi syrup are used. I wonder if the recipe is actually more appropriate for a Rare Vos clone.

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I completely agree. Although I doubt it will taste like Rare Voss, but if it does thats ok w/ me. If you read my posts I am totally confused why there is no D1 or D2 syrup. That being said there is no info anywhere on a tried and true Ommegang Abbey except this one. Well there is another but neither uses the Candi Syrup.

If anyone here has done an Ommegang Abbey Clone please let us know which recipe you used.

the more I come across the more it seems almost impossible to truly duplicate an abbey ale. They are such complex beers. I guess a guy really needs to just brew one and tweak it from there. It will probably be a long process with the aging and all. I think these things are best done by using a group type of brew. This way you have access to all of the different methods / ingredients used.

btw are you using promash or any software to check the SRM, ibu's etc?

I use this http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator

does the SRM look close?

It was within the range given by the recipator for a dubbel

electronjunkie said:

Got everything I need to do a 2.5 gal batch of the Abbey Dubbel clone you posted here MilwaukeeBrewGuy

We'll see how it goes!

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so are you going to use the corn sugar in that recipe or a darker syrup?

I had a beer that had that licorice root in it. It was a Belgian Poorter and man was it good. Not sure if true belgians brew with that though.

MilwaukeeBrewGuy said:

so are you going to use the corn sugar in that recipe or a darker syrup?

I had a beer that had that licorice root in it. It was a Belgian Poorter and man was it good. Not sure if true belgians brew with that though.

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I want to do a Dubbel recipe with a D1 or D2 candi syrup. Do you know of one that has gotten good reviews? I have not found many yet.

I'm gonna do smaller batches though b/c I am not a heavy drinker and 5 gallons stays around for a while, especially high gravity beer.

Some apparent good ones that I came across were Denny Conn's dubbel or jamil's dubbel.

I am assuming you are doing All Grain? Are you going to do a decoction mash? I hear what you are saying about not drinking much but some of these belgians you may need to cellar for a while and you wouldn't want to run out when it starts to get good.

1. Do you plan to decoction mash?
2. How long are you willing to cellar it?

I use the Deathbrewer allgrain method and got about 72% efficiency. I used a combination of his method and the temperatures and times from my Joy of Home Brewing book for the style beer I was doing.

Have not tried a decoction mash and it looks a bit too complicated for a weekend brewer like me.

I don't know that I will cellar it longer than a few weeks after its ready to drink, but I'm sure some will make it that long. By "cellar" I mean leave it in my fridge at 40 degrees.

A decoction mash will most likely add significant time to your brew day. But if you don't to do that I believe you can add some specialty grains which should give you some of the carmelization flavors that a decoction mash gives.

Just keep in mind that some of these Belgian recipes require quite a bit of aging to them. I would say you would probably want to age it at least 3 months. I think some of the belgian beers are actually aged quite a bit longer. I am expecting the belgian i brew this summer to be ready come winter. If you want to turn one around quicker than that then I would think you should search for a recipe with lower aging requirements.

Interesting point about the caramelizing that happens during decoction mashing. Its all new to me. I thought I was being cool doing all grain but oh well

Well if aging it makes them that much better I'll wait at least for some of them. I'll be interested in what the aging does to these beers. It will be kind of an experiment.

The belgian blonde I made actually tasted worse (plain and bland) 2 weeks after kegging. I turned it upside down and right side up again, poor off a glass or two to get rid of yeast and it is much much better. Probably should have bottled it. It really is delicious and I will be brewing it again soon too.

I think the main thing with aging is to mellow out the higher alcohols. I had a robust porter that came out a little high abv (7%) and it took 3 months to get rid of the hot fusels. But boy at 3 months it came into its own.

Hey you can still bottle it! I bottled the rest of my porter from my keg last night and for like 5 dollars you can make an awesome beer gun to bottle from your kegerator.

If you haven't seen this link. Check it out. It works really good.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-need-no-stinking-beer-gun-24678/

Also, I just started reading "Brew Like a Monk". It is really good so far. check it out.

Nice post about not needing a beer gun. I now have a racking cane dedicated to doing just this!

I did this recipe but I screwed up and used regular orange peel instead of "bitter orange peel". I didnt know there was a difference. I also put it in with the licorice root at the beginning of the boil instead of the end.

It is kegged and is pretty good but had a little bit too much of an orange peel flavor that I didn't like. I started thinking about what I could add to complement this flavor since you can't remove it. I am not a cook but I was inspired by an episode of Basic Brewing Radio to try vanilla extract.

One to two drops per glass and now I can't taste either the orange peel or the vanilla. It is actually very good and would probably brew this again but add the vanilla at bottle/kegging time!

Cool. I am sure it would get much better with age. I brewed my dubbel too. My efficiency was not too good so it came in at 1.061. It is a little darker than I wanted but should be good in a few months. How old is the beer? How much carbonation did you give it?

I carbed it to 9 PSI which is what the calculator said do for my temp. The head is perfect so I am happy at that pressure.

It was in the fermenter for 3 weeks. It has been in the keg for almost 2 weeks. I haven't got the patience to wait weeks for it. By the time I am done drinking it, it might get a month or two of age, we'll see.

This beer also tastes better at 45-50 degrees, not ice cold like some ales.